Beginning Descent into Chase Season 2014

There are truly synoptic-evident days like 5/29/04 or 4/14/12 where you're almost guaranteed to have a banner chase if you play things correctly.

More likely to have a banner chase day, sure. Guaranteed? No way. Lots of people had just an OK day on 4/14/12, even playing it well. Lots and lots busted, even playing the synoptic warm front, or the center of the 45 hatched. That's kind of my point. You're just marginally more likely to get career chases playing super hyped high risks, and obvious tornado setups, than you are a string of more marginal days that still hold potential.

Lots of chasers are getting the full chase experience right now. Pretty storms, a tornado, and the plains. If you need this every time you chase or it's a bust:
talbot.5.22.2010.bowdle.sd.f4.tornado.02.jpg


...then yeah you've got different expectations, and I think you'll be disappointed more often than not.
 
I think the common thread of 5/29/04 and 4/14/12 is that they probably featured the two most impressive cyclic supercells, from a chasing standpoint, of the last 10-12 years, the SC KS supercell in '04 and the supercell that tracked from NW OK to Wichita in '12. Both featured a boatload of backlit tornadoes over open country. I wasn't chasing yet in '04, but I was around for 4/14/12, and that chase day was far from easy. We started the day near Greensburg, and basically spent the entire day chasing smoke until we finally dropped down to the tail-ender and caught the Argonia wedge after dark. If we'd gone to the Cherokee/Waynoka area, we probably would have seen 6-8 tornadoes, at least.

So yeah, get on the right supercell on a day like that and you're in fat city. If you don't, there are no guarantees of scoring like crazy, even on the biggest of days.

NOTE: I realize this is getting off the thread topic a bit, so mods feel free to delete if necessary.
 
Four days on the upslope, a sculpted LP one day, some lightning another day, a landspout if you're lucky, and then a day hiking. That's a dream come true for me, but for many chasers, and I'd label them the stereotypical storm snob crowd, that's pretty lame. That's fine, whatever floats your boat.

So because I chase to see tornadoes (all tornadoes), I'm a snob because I understand that upslope for several consecutive days is a crapshoot compared to more synoptically (and even mesoscale) evident setups, regarding the ability to successfully forecast tornadoes? I don't get why I have to be a snob because you don't like the fact I have different goals in chasing than you do. Does this mean you're a photog snob, since everything has to be top-notch all-pro HD supersonic while my work is all crap, because I shoot SD format? I mean, it's one or the other.

Also, it's really easy to pick other people apart when you clearly have it better than a lot of other chasers, with regards to finances and schedule flexibility. Maybe because you can roam the country at will chasing whatever you choose, you've become lost on the fact that most chasers have to have a season, to be able to best plan/budget their funds and resources. I'd say I'm sorry it offends you that I have typically succeeded between March and May, and because of that, I've come to expect the majority of my opportunities at success will come somewhere within that time frame. I'd also apologize for the fact that, again typically over the years, my finances/schedule begin to tighten up around the first of June, disallowing me the pleasure of vagabond chasing. But I'm not sorry about either.

I'd love the freedom to chase more hard-to-forecast, jumping state-to-state every other day, needle-in-a-haystack type setups....but I have obligations that cannot be ignored, lest I wind up under a bridge chasing nothing, ever. And because my limited chasing opps are so precious, and because I'm not satisfied with a mothership supercell on its own, walking through mountains taking pictures of flowers, or admiring one of the hundreds of dying, depressing small towns we all pass through, no.....4-5 days of highly-maybe chasing just doesn't cut it. But if I could afford it, I'd at least try.

Does that make me less of a snob?
 
So because I chase to see tornadoes (all tornadoes), I'm a snob because I understand that upslope for several consecutive days is a crapshoot compared to more synoptically (and even mesoscale) evident setups
Yes. It's always a crapshoot. The dusty tubes people are pulling out of NE, WY, and CO now are better than a lot of the stuff I saw chasers pull out of the first "real" setup on the plains on the 11th or the 8th. In terms of getting a decent view of a tornado, the difference between these setups is not that large.

Does this mean you're a photog snob, since everything has to be top-notch all-pro HD supersonic
Yes, definitely. I mean this more lightheartedly than it's coming off. A little ribbing of the tornado chasers who are missing tornadoes. Just like I can be ribbed for having a tornado day for every 15 tornado-less "busts". I'll take a sculpted LP over a low contrast birdfart any day. I've known we differ in style there, and that's great. There's nothing wrong with that. I still like to make fun of it, just as it's silly to others when I'm trying to get the perfect image of the perfect cloud (I'm not a real photog snob, but I probably lean that way more than a storm snob).

you clearly have it better than a lot of other chasers, with regards to finances and schedule flexibility
I certainly can't chase every setup. That's why I'm not out there camping out in Goshen County right now. I am thankful for the time I do get and know how fortunate I am, as I'm sure you know how fortunate you are. That you get to live in the southern plains and chase at all, puts you ahead of so many other chasers and aspiring chasers.

You pick a few days with the potential to produce a tornado, chase them, and you'll probably get lucky after a few chases. We've had that this May already. Several days are producing tornadoes, and people have the capability, time, and money to go get them and have a good chase season, but some might choose to sit at home and keep a goose egg for May or for the season because the setups weren't synoptically obvious (even though some upslope setups are). I do find that funny.
 
Looks like E, CO will be in play this week as well as other western locations as the Wheel of Fortune spins over the SW.

SPC Day 3.... NAM FORECAST SOUNDING FOR LIC AT 21Z
EXHIBITS SBCAPE ON THE ORDER OF 2500 J/KG WITH VERTICAL SHEAR
STRONGLY SUPPORTIVE OF SUPERCELLS. FORECAST TEMPERATURE/DEW POINT
SPREADS OF 20F OR LESS SUGGEST A TORNADO THREAT WILL ACCOMPANY
SUPERCELLS THAT DEVELOP NORTH OF THE FRONT...IN ADDITION TO LARGE
HAIL.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
More likely to have a banner chase day, sure. Guaranteed? No way. Lots of people had just an OK day on 4/14/12, even playing it well. Lots and lots busted, even playing the synoptic warm front, or the center of the 45 hatched. That's kind of my point. You're just marginally more likely to get career chases playing super hyped high risks, and obvious tornado setups, than you are a string of more marginal days that still hold potential.

Lots of chasers are getting the full chase experience right now. Pretty storms, a tornado, and the plains. If you need this every time you chase or it's a bust:

...then yeah you've got different expectations, and I think you'll be disappointed more often than not.
I certainly don't need a Bowdle wedge to call a chase a success, and haven't even implied so at any point in this thread. I was only using that date as an example to illustrate the type of setup I prefer, with the understanding that 5/22/10 itself was an overperformer. As for 5/29/04 and 4/14/12, the common thread I was going for is this: if you picked the right storm(s), a banner chase day was all but guaranteed. I never said picking the right storm was a piece of cake, but the point is that at 8:00am, you basically knew there would be awesome tornadoes somewhere within a 1-2 state region by sunset. From a risk-reward perspective, that's more than can be said for the Bowdle day, let alone upslope plays.

I'm sorry, but the idea that you're "just marginally more likely" to see something worthwhile on 5/29/04 than a day with yesterday's conditions -- I couldn't disagree more. Unless you consider 5-10x more likely to be marginal. Financially, most don't have the luxury to.

What's kind of funny about this back-and-forth is that I'm not a tornado snob at all. I love structure, and I'd easily concede that yesterday was a better chase day than last Sunday (5/11) in NE -- in hindsight. But I generally play the odds, and from my perspective, without hindsight, the combined odds for seeing either a visible tornado or great structure on 5/11 were still better than yesterday.

Any differences between our standards, Skip, might have more to do with what we consider to be great structure. After nine years of chasing, merely "good" structure like what one might see with your average upslope storm doesn't get me too excited. Yesterday's storm in WY was amazing, but I'd argue you could chase at least 6-8 similar upslope days and get significantly lesser structure on all but one. For example, I chased upslope on 6/9/10 and 6/11/10 (yes, because a more conventional setup was on the plate for 6/10); those storms, while nice enough to watch, would not make me feel good about spending $300-400 and leaving town for 3-4 days. Yesterday's storms would, though.

Really great structure, like 80th-90th percentile for Plains supercells, is a big goal for me -- and lots of other still photogs, no doubt. Tornadoes are also a big goal for me. The ultimate prize is a photogenic tornado, ala Rozel or Campo, and that's always what I'm hoping for. But any tornado at all that's not rain-wrapped is great, too. So, again, I generally look at the odds I'm going to see either of those two things when I make a decision to chase. The best bang-for-buck setups for me, by far, are those that offer at least some tornado potential that's obvious ahead of time. A big reason is that your classic mid-late season, localized but synoptically-supportive tornado setups also tend to produce great supercells at a high rate. Going back to days like Bowdle and Aurora, those were setups that easily offered a higher percentage for seeing great, beefy structure than your typical 65/45 upslope day in WY -- and much higher tornado potential. What's not to like? Structure fans need not lust after ultra-marginal days where tornadoes lasting more than 30 seconds are almost off the table. If they enjoy both tornadoes and structure, like most chasers, then both ought to be considered.

Finally, geographic bias is an unfortunate fact of life for most of us. I've chased plenty of marginal setups where no tornadoes were expected (most recently 5/10 in S KS), but generally won't make a multi-day chasecation out of those days alone. Likewise, I wouldn't do multi-day for what looked like very messy and HP tornado setups, either. To take the financial plunge, I want to see the reasonable possibility of fulfilling both my goals. The only exception is if it gets to be mid-June and I simply haven't chased/spent much because there weren't many "real" setups all year. I've yet to experience that, but this may be the year!
 
The main reason I'm not in Wyoming/Colorado right now is because if I made that trip, I would use up a large chunk of my remaining spring chase budget. That could put me out of commission if something big were to transpire in June. I chase the Plains to see tornadoes primarily. It's not that I don't appreciate structure, but it's not a primary goal or motivator for me. Because I live very far from the High Plains, it costs a lot more per tornado day to chase central/northern High Plains upslope 2% days, plain and simple. Statistically, a 2% High Plains day is similar to a 2% Midwest day in terms of the number of such days one must put in to have a successful chase.

I can offer some hard numbers because I'm a tornado stat geek. Right now, my southern/central Great Plains success rate is 33% (1 tornado day every 3 chases). It's that high because I mostly limit my Plains trips to quality synoptically-evident tornado setups. The chance you'll see something good on such days *is* significantly higher than a Midwest or High Plains day, and my stats prove it (for me anyway). My Midwest success rate is 17%, or just over 1 tornado day per 6 chases. The increased number of chase days is offset by the fact that I *live* in the Midwest. Each Midwest chase day requires relatively little mileage, and therefore costs much less. I would expect my High Plains success rate to be similar to my Midwest rate. My rationale is that given the High Plains and Midwest likely offer equal tornado chances per chase, and I have a couple dozen such opportunities here at home throughout the year - I can't find motivation to spend another thousand dollars to add on another week of low-probability days.
 
This is a conversation that needs a bar and reality. Fairly
certain we could understand each other within a beer.
 
Funny how this thread has kind of dovetailed into the other thread about how "hardcore" we are lol. I can't speak for others, but living in Oklahoma I've never had to block out a two week window for a chasecation because 80% of the time chases are within a days drive and back. Any trip up north is usually asking for a couple of days off before the event, and ultimately more expensive than a normal (for me) chase so it usually has to be a bigger event to be considered. I'm sure it's the same way for someone living up north who has to travel south, I wouldn't expect them to be around for 2% days here either.

This year is different though because of the lack of good setups, and I hope to get up north as much as I can. A lot of this has to do with work & family obligations, etc but I will try to fit it in as best as possible. I love good structure, photogenic tornadoes (or landspouts), Colorado, Wyoming, and Nebraska so it's a trip I'd make storms or not. I can usually get good enough photos that any chase I make is a small investment that will pay itself back over the rest of the year. Basically, I gotta go where the storms are if I'm going to chase, but I certainly don't blame anyone for not wanting to break themselves on something they don't feel is worth it. Also, though to Skip's point, there are tornadoes out there to be had if one puts themselves out there to get them.
 
The main reason I'm not in Wyoming/Colorado right now is because if I made that trip, I would use up a large chunk of my remaining spring chase budget. That could put me out of commission if something big were to transpire in June. I chase the Plains to see tornadoes primarily.

Any one notice the steep jump in last-minute airfares the past few years? Some folks living far outside chase country don't want to pre-book a two-week chunk of their vacation time, and risk getting stuck in a tornado drought. For us, targeting high-potential setups is the only option.

I used to be able to score a one- or two-day advance ticket from the East or West coast to Denver, Wichita or Kansas City for around $300 or so. Sometimes for free if I used airline award miles. But that is no longer possible. I'm lucky to find tickets under $700. Award miles are no longer flexible, ...and rental cars and gas are not getting any cheaper either.

Chasing is just becoming prohibitively expensive. I envy and admire all of you who live in or a short drive from the Alley. I look forward to your photos and chase logs, since vicarious chasing is becoming my new hobby! :)
 
Hey, guys! I have been extremely busy with school coming to close, but I wanted to put my scenario in on this case too. I am 16 and a sophomore in high school. I've said this before. I can drive, and I've done one chase by myself that resulted in a beautiful shelf cloud here in and around my town. Here is the deal though, as far as my situation goes: I only have four days to miss school to go chase during the springtime. That is how many absenses I can have without having to take semester tests (which just suck!) So I really have to plan my chases carefully and strive for weekend setups. So my forecasting and planning really have to be done carefully and I can only chase the higher end setups with a higher chance of success in seeing a tornado. But guys, structure and tornadoes are about equal for me. And I say this with bias since I have yet to see a onfirmed tornado. But I also chase with my dad, so along with coordinating for me, I have to coordinate with him, and he teaches at a college. So then the chances are even slimmer of us chasing in the spring. This year I have chased only in Oklahoma, and the first time was a blue sky bust, second time I have the account posted on here, but it sucked, and the the April 27 High Risk bust...and I missed the Mayflower tornado since I was chasing out west where I thought it would be better. So based on the very tight schedule I have, I've only gotten three chases really, and nothing to really show for it. So Brett and Skip, the way I see it, you both have seen your fair share of tornadoes and structure, and I look up to both of you and respect you guys so much! Your pictures are just incredible, and I have tried for now 3 years really "trying" to chase and see a tornado. I've seen so many cool things and gotten so many pictures, but it just boils down to who you are and what your situation is. I guess that's what my input is. We aren't rich by any means, but my dad and I want to chase in the great plains at least a few times, even marginal setups, if it means coming back with cool stories and fun times. Structure makes it better, and a tornado would make it simple incredible. But I think we have to remember one thing no matter what: as chasers, we seek to witness the beauty that is severe weather, and try to forecast it and go out and watch these feared-by-many living and breathing "things" that are the thunderstorm and the more significant supercell, and document, photograph, and warn the public of the dangers within them. It's about being out there and making memories and remembering it and documenting it for the many weather enthusiasts, despite if it is a lone cumulus cloud,a barber's pole LP, or a Bowdle wedge. That's how I think of it. Does it suck that I've been on only three chases this year and they all have sucked? Yes!! Does it suck that I really haven't seen any structure, let alone a tornado? You bet!! And does it suck that I really don't get to chase much at all during the peak of severe weather? It kills me!! Lol. But I have learned from them and strive for the next chase. Just some input from a busy teenager...
 
Well, that escalated quickly.

Back on thread topic, I'm liking the looks of Wednesday right now if sufficient moisture can get up into northwest Kansas...could be a decent shot at tornado or two over a localized area up there. Will bear watching.
 
Wednesday is looking very good with moisture pooling up against the Rockies tomorrow night, especially with the best westerly component right over the eastern CO plains. This is starting to have a bit of a 2009 feel to it where the fringes of the alley have a lot of good/great days, with the most recent Wyoming day highlighting that possibility.
 
For what it's worth, I've had some of my enjoyable chase experiences on marginal days (including Campo). I live in Lawton, Ok, and will spot chase all year as my schedule allows. On top of that I always do a dedicated 10-12 day chase vacation straddling Memorial Day weekend where I go wherever there's a chance (short of NDakota).

In my experience, the large scale outbreak events that are forecastable 3-7 days in advance have just gotten to the point where they are almost inevitably an "fc" logistically (especially if they are in Oklahoma) Too many chasers and yokels making it extremely dangerous even for those of us who are into being the most extreme or striving to get as close to being muched as possible. I chased Joplin. I chased May 24, 2011, and I was on El Reno last May 31 - they all produced, but the stress at times got to the point where it wasn't much fun any more. Matter of fact, offhand, the last outbreak day that I recall where I saw really good tornadoes AND didn't have high stress was Quniter in 2008.

As far as this chase season, I like the prospects for eastern Colorado on Wed and then NMEx/Tx panhandle late in the week. After that, ............. pfffffffffffft.
 
Back
Top