8/9/2004 FCST: MIDWEST/GREAT LAKES/NORTHERN OHIO VALLEY

Originally posted by nickgrillo
Are you crazy Rob? LOL. :lol:

MI had over 25 tornadoes so far this year! :lol:

My perspective on chasing:
Supercells/Rotating Storm: YES.
Anything Outflow Dominant: NO

Yeah, but when those 25 tornadoes happened over a long period ot time (i.e. 2 tornadoes a month), then you can see the "lack" that I was talking about. I havn't checked on this, but I don't think there has even been an F2 or higher tornado this year in MI... The best event I recall was the lone supercell in central lower (the one that you were on earlier).

Anyway, hope you arn't too disappointed, because Monday is looking to be linear (hopefully I am wrong).

Anything Outflow Dominant: NO

You mean to tell me you would rather seen nothing at all than a derecho with +80MPH winds? I like tornadoes too, but I take what I can get (in MI, beggers can't be choosers :lol:)

To me, thi s summer has been relatively cold and severe weather free...
 
Sun 12Z

Don't see anything from today's runs that scares me... Still looking at CAPEs in the vicinity of 2000, with nice wind structure and good timing for Mid-Michigan.

As SPC noted, lapse rates are still a little on the weak side but not enough to make me go no-severe.

Yet.

- Rob
 
The 12Z data is in, and things still look on track as far as the large scale synoptics. I orignally had some concern when it comes low level moisture, but current OBS show numerous reports of +65F Td's (even creeping into WI), with several +70F reports across eastern IA/MN. Current ETA suggests that this moisture will move eastward into lower MI tomorrow afternoon, with Td's in the low to mid 60's... Given the current OBS, I wouldn't be surprised to see some upper 60's to near 70F dewpoints.

I decided to extrapolate the 500mb shortwave track based on the WV loop and RUC analysis for the past 24HRs... Which would put the "center" of the 500mb low (or trough axis) near eastern Lake Superior by 00Z TUE (mean speed of the shortwave was found to be 20KNTS). ETA and GFS show a nice dry air intrusion at 700mb pushing into MI between 21Z-03Z, which would suggest a line of thunderstorms beneath the highest RELH.

Wind fields are decent, with a 40-50knt jet developing just behind the dry air intrusion. Modifying soundings across the region for a parcel of 80F/65F yields >2500J/KG across much of the region (I believe 65F is possible given upstream dewpoints). Of course max temps will be based strongly on how much cloud cover is present, but 80F shouldn't be too hard to hit.

My guess is that a squall line will likely develop and track eastward across the region given the linear linear look to all of the forcing mechanisms (dry air intrusion, convergence, etc.). Looking at the derecho "check-list", there are a few parameters missing, such as monster CAPE values and conditions extending downstream for 250nm (since a derecho is defined as having a long track). However, a local "derecho" (AKA squall line) still seems like a pretty good bet...
 
"Current ETA suggests that this moisture will move eastward into lower MI tomorrow afternoon, with Td's in the low to mid 60's... Given the current OBS, I wouldn't be surprised to see some upper 60's to near 70F dewpoints."

I considered that though initially but wonder if that's more of Iowa corn helping the high DPs as opposed to synoptics?
 
Originally posted by rdale
\"Current ETA suggests that this moisture will move eastward into lower MI tomorrow afternoon, with Td's in the low to mid 60's... Given the current OBS, I wouldn't be surprised to see some upper 60's to near 70F dewpoints.\"

I considered that though initially but wonder if that's more of Iowa corn helping the high DPs as opposed to synoptics?

I am thinking that the IA corn is the cause for the 68-70F dewpoints (I now see a few 72F readings in extreme southern MN!), but the mid 60's (~65F-67F) look more synoptic, given the greater coverage (into northern/western WI)...

The
 
well sadly it looks to be an all linear event for tomorrow as lapse rates and winds will not be great. :(
 
Originally posted by Jason Hetzel
well sadly it looks to be an all linear event for tomorrow as lapse rates and winds will not be great. :(

Lapse rates are generally weak, but I don't see how this would have a large effect on storm type. As for wind fields, they are relatively decent, especially for early August.

Rob: I am looking at soundings in NSHARP, and I have a question - When I click on "hodograph" to view a hodograph, I see a section on the bottom right called "environmental shear"... It then has a column labled "TOT SHEAR", are those units in m/s or knts?
 
Originally posted by Jeremy Lemanski
rdewey, How do you get to the NSHARP data? Is it software or a pay site?
thanks.

You can just call me Robert :D (Rob doesn't work, because there is already another Rob)

Anyway, its software from Unidata http://www.unidata.ucar.edu . You need to know a bit about Linux or Unix based operating systems and some programming (to write scripts to get the data through FTP). Its all free though :D, and you can make all kinds of weather maps, and overlay data on top of satellite/radar to get a better idea of whats going on in the atmosphere...
 
GEMPAK

Eyeballing it (and following convention) I'd say m/s.

If Linux isn't your cup of tea you can get ready-to-run systems at http://skywatch.org

Back on topic - the 18Z Eta throws a different pitch this time around, with an initial wave around 18Z and the "main event" after 00Z. Not sure I see where that impule comes from, unless it's related to the stuff in MN/WI right now.

- Rob
 
Re: GEMPAK

Originally posted by rdale
Eyeballing it (and following convention) I'd say m/s.

If Linux isn't your cup of tea you can get ready-to-run systems at http://skywatch.org

Back on topic - the 18Z Eta throws a different pitch this time around, with an initial wave around 18Z and the \"main event\" after 00Z. Not sure I see where that impule comes from, unless it's related to the stuff in MN/WI right now.

- Rob

Thanks for the answer...

As for that wave, it does appear to originate from the stuff currently ongoing from WI to NE. It does look like the ETA is overdone with precip in that region (between 18Z and 21Z), as far as coverage is concerned, so perhaps this initial wave will be a bit weaker?

Anyway, barring any convection tomorrow before the "main event", CAPEs should climb towards 2500J/KG. A look at soundings from the 18Z run (LAN sounding) for 00Z - 03Z TUE shows some decent SRH this go around as well, with values just above 150m2/s2. Just ot make a comparison, the action ongoing in IA/WI is working with very weak wind fields/shear and moderate instability. Tomorrow, we should be looking at much better shear for the Great Lakes (40knts at 500mb, as opposed to the 15-20knts they are playing with in IA). Our SFC moisture will be more limited, but 500mb temps will be slightly lower as well, which will still allow for some decent instability.
 
Not a whole lot different still - I'm amazed at how uniform the models have been with this event! Eta a little too excited about this morning QPF (putting much more rain by 15Z than actually fell) which seems to reduce instab parameters a bit but still have CAPE 2000+ with nice directional shear in the very low levels.

- Rob
 
so this being said and with everything looking great so far does anybody here agree with spc on a small tornado threat? :D
 
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