Ignorance of few affect the many

[J Tyler]

How many people are killed each year skydiving? Scuba diving? Race car driving at the amature level? Bull riding?

The difference is, the people killed doing these things are the people who willingly participated. If people get hurt in a tornado tour, or a chaser gets killed by a tornado rolling over him/her, I don't see any public outcry.

But....if innocent citizens are hurt or killed because of chasers, you will see law enforcement step up action against chasers/spotters. You can't make it illegal to drive down a road if there is a severe thunderstorm nearby. BUT, it already IS illegal to drive at excessive speed to get into a better position. It already IS illegal to setup a tripod IN the lane of traffic. It already IS illegal to stop on the side of the road in many areas unless it is an emergency (and no, photographing a wedge tornado is NOT an emergency).

I agree with others.....I think we need to start doing what a lot of OTHER "groups" do, and start policing ourselves by urging each other to do what is "right". I don't want self righteous jerks preaching at each other. BUT, another chaser telling me, "Hey, I'm going to pull up a little here so you can get further off the road". Or, people making an honest effort to find safer places TO pull off the road, etc. can go a long way to changing the overall attitude. Peer pressure can actually be a good thing sometimes.

If I get myself hurt or killed, then that is on me. But, I could never forgive myself if I hurt or killed someone else. Lets slow down out there.....Lets make honest efforts to be a LOT safer about getting off the road when we stop. Its all good.

 

[Jeremy Den Hartog]

How many people are killed each year skydiving? Scuba diving? Race car driving at the amature level? Bull riding?

The difference is, the people killed doing these things are the people who willingly participated. If people get hurt in a tornado tour, or a chaser gets killed by a tornado rolling over him/her, I don't see any public outcry.

But....if innocent citizens are hurt or killed because of chasers, you will see law enforcement step up action against chasers/spotters. You can't make it illegal to drive down a road if there is a severe thunderstorm nearby. BUT, it already IS illegal to drive at excessive speed to get into a better position. It already IS illegal to setup a tripod IN the lane of traffic. It already IS illegal to stop on the side of the road in many areas unless it is an emergency (and no, photographing a wedge tornado is NOT an emergency).

I agree with others.....I think we need to start doing what a lot of OTHER "groups" do, and start policing ourselves by urging each other to do what is "right". I don't want self righteous jerks preaching at each other. BUT, another chaser telling me, "Hey, I'm going to pull up a little here so you can get further off the road". Or, people making an honest effort to find safer places TO pull off the road, etc. can go a long way to changing the overall attitude. Peer pressure can actually be a good thing sometimes.

If I get myself hurt or killed, then that is on me. But, I could never forgive myself if I hurt or killed someone else. Lets slow down out there.....Lets make honest efforts to be a LOT safer about getting off the road when we stop. Its all good.

Good points. Hopefully people will slow down out there and be smarter with how and where they pull off the road and also 'attempt' to make things as safe as they can by planning ahead and not waiting until the last possible second to try to move out of the way of a storm (so not everyone is scrambling at the same time).

However, what would happen if this kind of headline came across nationally - "3 Injured, 3 Killed Including 2 Children Due to Rural 'Traffic Jam' During Yesterday's Storms". I know this is a 'what-if' scenario and hopefully something like this never does happen but considering chaser convergence and how chaotic things can get, I don't think its to much of a stretch. My point is its not always chasers who get caught up in the frenzy on the roads. There easily could be a local family trying desperately to get out of the way of the tornado and get caught up in the road congestion and 'not make it' in time. Obviously they say taking shelter and not trying to outrun a tornado is what people should do but realistically if I saw a huge wedge heading towards my family and my home I would at least consider getting them out of the way if there was time (or at least if I thought there was enough time).

 

[Tim Vasquez]

I recognize the efforts of you who have kept the discussion courteous, and I do thank Gregg Potter for responding with his side of the story.

That said, we have had to intervene in this thread several pages back because of some abusive comments that were posted. The cardinal rule of Stormtrack if you are part of our community you are required to be respectful to one another. We occasionally do kick users out when they can't get along with others here, and in doing so we politely give them a list of alternate weather forums where they can continue their conversations. Please recognize what is appropriate here on our public forums, and if you can't keep your temper down, take it to e-mail or post on your blog.

The thread seems ok as of late, but this is a warning to all to not shore up the discussions with any ad hominem comments.

Tim

 

[Kris Hair]

You know what's funny...

NO ONE could give a crap about this... Outside of The Weather Channel trying to stir drama and a handful of storm chasers.

That's it... The average Joe could give a **** if you're out there, and what you're doing.

 

[Dustin Wilcox]

You know what's funny...

NO ONE could give a crap about this... Outside of The Weather Channel trying to stir drama and a handful of storm chasers.

That's it... The average Joe could give a **** if you're out there, and what you're doing.

I’d say I have to disagree; I would have used to think the same thing, but it’s pretty apparent that the “anti-chasing” sentiments from media outlets the last year or two is starting to resonate through the general public. I don’t think it’s to the point where it’s common for folks to be overly concerned about it, but stop by any coffee shop, small town bar or anywhere the topic of chasing is brought up, and observe any discussions regarding chasers…Seems many of the general public (be it from media provided info or being witness) are aware and care enough to at least mention the vast number of chasers and the problems they can cause!

 

[Joey Ketcham]

I’d say I have to disagree; I would have used to think the same thing, but it’s pretty apparent that the “anti-chasing” sentiments from media outlets the last year or two is starting to resonate through the general public. I don’t think it’s to the point where it’s common for folks to be overly concerned about it, but stop by any coffee shop, small town bar or anywhere the topic of chasing is brought up, and observe any discussions regarding chasers…Seems many of the general public (be it from media provided info or being witness) are aware and care enough to at least mention the vast number of chasers and the problems they can cause!

I have to agree with Dustin, more people outside storm chasing has an opinion on this than you think. Case in point, there are a couple of people I work with who are anti-storm chasing and have gotten into debates with them over it. These are people I work with who have nothing to do with storm chasing.

TWC posted a link to the story they did on their facebook page, it's amazing how many people - again non-chasers - who commented about how storm chasing needs to be regulated. The last I checked there were over 40 comments from people and 98% of those were people suggesting that storm chasing becomes regulated.

So I can't be entirely sure that nobody gives a crap about this other than TWC and us storm chasers. Of course your average Joe isn't walking around talking about this type of thing like we seem to do on here, but I bet if you ask most they will have an opinion and it probably wouldn't be a good one either.

The only reason it gets brought up all the time amongst us is because it is something we participate in. I'm sure there are topics on hunting, racing and skydiving forums that are brought up time after time that nobody outside those forums care about.

 

[Jay McCoy]

How many people are killed each year skydiving? Scuba diving? Race car driving at the amature level? Bull riding?

The difference is, the people killed doing these things are the people who willingly participated. If people get hurt in a tornado tour, or a chaser gets killed by a tornado rolling over him/her, I don't see any public outcry.

Thats true but all those things are regulated even at the amateur level unlike chasing. There is manditory safety equipment and certifications needed for all of those. before a race car ever sees a track it is inspected and must meet very strict safety standards as does the drive and his outfit. Bull riders have to wear flack vests etc... and you must take scube lessons from a certified instructor. All of these have their own regulating bodies and even some laws. Chasing has no requirements except a drivers license. I dont think there will be an outcry if a chaser is killd but I can promise if a tour group full of "civillians" is killed there will be an outcry from media and the families. yes these people want to see severe wx close up but they also expect it to be safe where they get to come home from their "cool vacation". People love roller coasters for the thrill also but expect that ride to not kill them in the process. Tour operators have to go above and beyond normal chasers when it comes to safety. They should NEVER put their clients in true danger. A hal core here or there isnt out of the question since that rarely does more than break a window or 2 but tornadic circulations is a whole different bull to grapple with and can easily turn deadly in a heartbeat. They may not get the upclose shot they want but if its a choice of staying safe and shooting a totrnado from 3 miels away compared to being up close and possibly involved they must choose the safe route. The customers themselves can cause enough problems by getting in roadways or taking their time getting back in the van when the storm is getting to close and they need to move without having to deal with a multi-vortex tornado dropping on top of you. This was a bad choice and hopefully they and ALL chase tours take not and make better decisions from here on out.

 

[Steve Miller]

Seems odd to me that TWC would launch a campaign smearing chasers when they are the #1 buyer of storm chaser video and live feeds. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

(Oh, and I agree with Joey and others on the regulation thing; the only enforceable "regulation" would be taxation of anyone obviously operating a commercial storm chasing business; like a tour co. Even that will be difficult to enforce...)

 

[Andrew Stoller]

The only type of regulation I can see is at the local level - a sheriff getting tired of dealing with chaser convergence issues and the county passing a "no storm loitering" law. I could easily see that happening. It's pretty obivous that in certain parts of the midwest, local law enforcement has a bitter disdain for storm chasers.

 

[David Schuttler]

Last week I saw more "no parking" signs on the side of the roads/highways in Kansas than I'm used to seeing.

 

[John Farley]

Storm chasing is never going to be regulated, period. I don't know why people keep bringing up the idea of it being regulated, it won't happen. It would be impossible to enforce, how would they prove that I am storm chasing? Because I'm driving within the vicinity of a storm? That's not a crime. Because I have a laptop with internet access? I work in IT, wherever I go I have my laptop and internet connection so if something happens at work, I can VPN into work to take care of things. Because I have a ham radio? Again, not a crime.

If you break the law and you are caught, then you will be fined for that violation. But you aren't going to be punished just for the act of storm chasing.

24 states already have laws against texting while driving, and in some, such as Illinois, this also includes having a computer screen in the car where the driver can see it. (See the lengthy thread on the IL law elswhere in ST.) So, yes they can make looking at your laptop with internet access a crime. And you can bet that more states will, for reasons that have little or nothing to do with storm chasers. But such laws CAN be used against storm chasers.

 

[MatthewCarman]

Iowa has been raising the cigarette tax every year just to get more money. They know people will pay. If a state can find a way to make more money they will. In this recession states need all of the money they can get. It may seem unlikely any time soon or even impossible but if there is a way to regulate storm chasing soon or later someone will try just to make some extra cash for the state. It is hard to believe it could happen but nothing is impossible.

 

[Paul Redmond]

And many of us out there *want* to experience that stuff. Part of me doesn't get why anyone wouldn't want to experience some of that(should have a car one doesn't care for lol). Missing later parts of that chase is my only real fear.

Folks shouldn't always jump to the conclusion folks getting cored screwed up, as in surely many cases that's not the case at all. I put myself in the "bad place" often and am just having a damned hard time busting windows out of it.

Of course I realize this isn't the majority of those chasing out there thought process. I just think this way, "there's no core too bad". Even if at the time it ends up scaring the bejusus out of me. Thought Wakita storm was about to do that when I saw those first monsters, but then she was just a big fat let down.

I am glad we are preaching to the same choir. In fact I hate hale, even small hail. I have yet to get a busted window. My only hail damage so far have been a few dents on the soft hood of my last car, and I am counting myself luck. I generally prefer a safe distance. But I admit that I have done dumb things in the past. My worst was driving into an almost invisable half a$$ed EF0 circulation. I say debris flying above my car and had to do a very quick 180. Knowledge is a big help, but chase enough storms and sooner or later the odds turn against you.

 

[Joey Ketcham]

24 states already have laws against texting while driving, and in some, such as Illinois, this also includes having a computer screen in the car where the driver can see it. (See the lengthy thread on the IL law elswhere in ST.) So, yes they can make looking at your laptop with internet access a crime. And you can bet that more states will, for reasons that have little or nothing to do with storm chasers. But such laws CAN be used against storm chasers.

Right, but driving down a public road in itself is not a crime unless you are breaking an existing law. But regulating storm chasing in itself, I do not see that happening.

 

[Rob Wadsworth]

The attempt to 'micro manage' what American citizens do while exercising their freedoms is ultimately the issue. We simply need less of it; not more - IMO.

I doubt so very seriously that any state will enact such legislation - based upon the fact that it will ultimately cost local govt's more to do so than they can ever expect to acquire in penalties against a relative handful of chasers.

It just wouldn't be prudent...