Ignorance of few affect the many

[gapotter]

After reading the above discussion, I obviously need to respond. I operate F5! Chasing Safaris and will be the first to say that we were in the wrong place at the wrong time. We in no way intended to be in or wanted to be in that position. We pulled up and off the road along with tons of other chasers at the intersection of 132 and HWY 11 as we watched the first tornado drop down briefly well to the southwest. The storm was moving northeast very quickly as everyone knows. We had two vehicles with our group.

As the meso approached, the appropriate action would have been to drop south a few miles and let it pass and then get in behind it. We know that now. Instead, we moved east on HWY 11 to get far enough ahead of the storm to allow it to move northeast over the road behind us and then we would have position on the southeast to south side of the meso. Our first vehicle made the turn onto 11 along with the second. As we moved east the storm quickly organized and as Joel mentioned, "went crazy". This fact, along with the fact that the storm appeared to veer more easterly down the road instead of continuing to move straight northeast, made for the situation we caught ourselves in on Monday.

Our first vehicle moved east, passed many other chasers that were on the side of the road or driving slowly and kept going out ahead of the main meso as we planned. Our second truck (SUV) had several vehicles pull out in front of it from the south in between us, requiring quick brakes and from there, they could not get around the traffic to catch up with our first vehicle. It was quickly thereafter that they saw the tornado moving from the south to the north towards the road ahead of them, so they had no choice but to stop. It was almost immediately after this first vortex crossed the road that the windows shattered in the truck. From what we can tell, this was due to one of the three vortices coming from the north side of the road moving south (which can be seen in Scott Weberpal's video). Nobody in the vehicle saw these vortices as they were behind the truck and to the north at about the 7:00 position and everyone was focused on the main tornado moving across the road.

After the windows broke, they remained on the side of the road as many other chasers raced by without one single person stopping to check on them. Several more vortices came down in front of them and then the storm moved east and north. They attempted to move east to catch up with the first vehicle after the main meso passed but got caught in the rain and huge hail wrapping around. At that point, they pulled over and once we got in touch with them from the first vehicle after the storm was well off to the north and east, we went back and took care of things.

Although all the windows shattered, nobody was hurt except for a few small cuts. Obviously, this is not the way we run our business as we have been providing tours for 11 years and have never had an incident of this nature. We have never had an injury or accident on the road. We have missed tornadoes before due to the fact of staying on roads further from the action. We do not operate our business to get inside a tornado or put anybody's lives at risk. This was a unique situation and in retrospect, we should have handled it differently, but we learned and will not put ourselves in that position again.

In regards to the video on TWC, I explained to my clients, they can do what they want with their own video. Our tour did NOT and will NOT make any money or handle anything in regards to selling their video. This was the choice of the client. Contact was made to us and the client handled all the details. They asked for a credit and he used our tour name, instead of his own name.

In regards to all the comments about how stupid we were, I can understand. However, there were many, many cars on HWY 11 that day under the meso. Our first vehicle passed many of them, including TWC and tons of others. We were not the only ones on that road. It was completely random that we got the windows broken out and not the car behind or in front of our second truck...because there were cars all over the road. I understand we are operating a tour and should have remained further away, but we did not do anything different that many other chasers did that day.

In regards to other tours losing business because of this, are you telling me people that book tours to chase tornadoes don't expect some potential of danger? If we get in this position once in 11 years with all the random things storms can do, this is not the case of us being stupid or not a good company, this is about a single event that should have been handled differently and will next time from our standpoint. I am sorry you may have lost a client because of this, but I find it hard to believe someone saw this and then decided it may be too dangerous to chase tornadoes all the sudden.

Anyway, I am sure the flames will continue and everyone here and all the other tours can tell all their prospective clients not to chase with F5!, but in the end, I do this for the passion of storms. Whether I have clients or go out by myself, I will continue to chase storms until I can no longer walk or see. We run tours because it allows us to interact with new people that have the same passion and to educate them on forecasting and chasing. I have plenty of good friends I have made during the tours the last 11 years and if only those people come back each season, I am fine with it. You guys can have all the new clients you want and make tons of money, I just like to chase storms.

I hope this explains further what happened from our point of view.

Gregg Potter

 

[Jeff Smith]

In regards to other tours losing business because of this, are you telling me people that book tours to chase tornadoes don't expect some potential of danger?

No they don't expect to be put into grave danger. Not one of our clients past or present that I have spoken with would expect to be put into the danger that your customers were put in. Therefore your actions have and are costing other tour operators money, including ours. Thanks bud.

When you have other peoples' lives in your hands, you cannot be that reckless...ever.

 

[Jeff Smith]

4) "Reed Timmer and his ilk...". Reed has spent a ton of money and time getting his education, building a tornado resistent vehicle, and adding radar and probes to get useful scientific information. He has earned any and all recognition that he gets. He can not control what other people decide to do and is not responsible for their bad decisions. People are in control of their own lives. Posts like yours get very old and wreak of jealousy and envy.

Joel Taylor

I totally agree with Joel, it's not Reed and crew that has caused this "have to get inside" mentality that more and more chasers have, it's the general public wanting extreme danger scenes that is driving the chasing "industry" into the ground...literally. Media wants what the public wants (ratings) and will find their way to deliver. If I have to sacrifice "the shot" in order to stay safe or keep others safe, then so be it. Like a friend said to me the other day, there will always be more tornadoes.

 

[J Allen]

See Post #30 above for clarification, my apologies once again for the confusion.

 

[John Keyes]

While I understand that you, Reed or anyone else cannot make people stop getting as close as you do to tornadoes, perhaps you could use this as a "teaching moment". As a proactive measure, why not show some leadership here and provide some education to the less experienced chaser. Get on TWC, national news, even on Discovery and tell people what you are doing and why. Give some guidance on what to do and NOT to do on a chase. Since people are looking at this type of chasing and watching Storm Chasers, this sounds like an opportunity to at least try something.

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4) "Reed Timmer and his ilk...". Reed has spent a ton of money and time getting his education, building a tornado resistent vehicle, and adding radar and probes to get useful scientific information. He has earned any and all recognition that he gets. He can not control what other people decide to do and is not responsible for their bad decisions. People are in control of their own lives. Posts like yours get very old and wreak of jealousy and envy.

 

[Rob H]

I'm glad Joel posted on behalf of his team, because it says something when a group that is admittedly aggressive and much better prepared than most recognizes a situation like this and treats it a little differently. I'm of the opinion that this thing surprised people; and that it wasn't an issue of needing to get the money shot.

Might there have been some herd mentality at play here? "Other chasers and tours are on this road, it must be OK". I know I saw more than F5 on Hwy 11. I just hope people didn't follow our vehicle for this reason, because we were not happy with our position.

 

[Matt Gingery]

I quickly realized by working with a tour company this season myself that I have to throw " I " out the window. Safety First is the slogan. I would suggest that you have a seperate support vehicle if you want to get that close and to have the tour stop at a safe distance to observe. Mistakes happen, and hopefully this can be chalked up as a lesson learned.

 

[Joel Taylor]

J Allen - Thank you for the clarification. I won't deny that some people may try to get closer because they see us doing it, however, we are talking about adults. I will never feel guilty or responsible for a decision that another adult has made. I also believe that we have stated numerous times that what we are doing can be dangerous and I know Discovery runs one of those "these are professionals" statements when comming out of commercials. At some point people are left to make their own decisions.

We really try to make people understand how dangerous these things are and I believe that videos that we and others have shot easily show this. We try to stress that we have a background in meteorology and have been chasing for 13 years with a good understanding of what we are getting into. Unfortunately, for every 10,000 people that we reach, for 1 or 2 it just goes in one ear and out the other.

As far as people trying to get "the shot", I've always thought the best video comes from 1/4 to 1/2 mile away which can be done fairly easily and safely. This way you get the most out of your frame since you can capture the whole funnel with debris cloud and much more smoothly than underneath the thing.

Again, I think this whole incident was purely accidental and then people weren't sure how to react. If you look at June 17 from last year, there was a very slow moving, long lasting tornado in a good road network with large chaser convergence. I chased from within about 1/4 mile in front of the tornado and once it touched down I only briefly saw 1 other vehicle besides mine and a Discovery SUV during the 15 to 20 minutes it was on the ground. On the 10th, after the initial convoy underneath the wall cloud, we really didn't see anybody after that and we were able to keep up for another 15 or 20 minutes and saw a several more tornadoes.

So maybe it comes down to once the tornado is down, people try to stay out of the way, but while it is developing, they don't think it's dangerous to be hanging out underneath the meso.

 

[David Schuttler]

No they don't expect to be put into grave danger. Not one of our clients past or present that I have spoken with would expect to be put into the danger that your customers were put in. Therefore your actions have and are costing other tour operators money, including ours. Thanks bud.

When you have other peoples' lives in your hands, you cannot be that reckless...ever.

"grave danger " ? really?

It's the middle of May and I would think if you haven't sold out of seats already, you might have more of a problem than a video on TWC.
The video doesn't mention it being a tour group it doesn't even mention that it's tourist in the van, it's labeled as being storm chasers getting too close.

 

[MatthewCarman]

Nice to see you come in and explain your side of things gapotter. Now I understand what happened better. Thanks for coming in and posting your side of the story. We all make mistakes and we all learn from them. I think you just need to be more carefull is all. I am happy to hear nobody was hurt. Take care and stay safe.

Ps. Let's stay calm everyone. I would not like to see this thread turn ugly.

 

[Rob Gardner]

So you cannot claim yourselves to be blameless as your actions have likely contributed, its just unfortunate that it comes down to people imitation...and unfortunately I don't think there is anything anyone can do about it now that it has begun. Still keep up doing what you are doing.

They are driving a friggin tank into weak tornadoes. If some idiot decides to drive his mazda miata into an F4 tornado that's on them. You can't pin that on Reed and Joel.....

 

[Warren Faidley]

I've watched the "methods and reasoning" for chasing storms go through multiple morphs over the years.

It use to be that a "beauty shot" of a graphic tornado from a distance was acceptable and could be sold quite easily. For the most part, those days are gone. Production companies were once happy with interesting personality profiles of chasing individuals, science, adventure and art... those days have also vaporized.

I understand how chasers can get caught up in getting closer. However, its not always on purpose. Unintentional misjudgments or uncontrollable events (like a wreck that blocks the road), do still occur and can happen to anyone despite being very careful. A few nights ago we were in the direct path of a tornado-warned storm that crossed I-40. We found shelter in (near) a substantial brick building. (I was still outside shooting like a fool as the storm passed).

Storm chasing has been absorbed into the modern world of television drama. People expect a certain amount of dangerous stunts and risk. A simple chase is not going to sell. The public has been bombarded with striking footage of late. Some of the people who chase with me often ask to get real close. This new idea, of driving right into the outer edges of a tornado is now ingrained into their minds as the normal for chasing. After all, no one ever gets hurt or killed (Yet).

I have to agree with others about not blaming Reed. At first I was not sure, but, having rode the publicity and media rodeo more than once myself, I know the way it works and how other chasers often respond. Reed found a way to make a lot of money and publicity in the otherwise tight-fisted world of storm chasing. He also has the experience to make his own judgments. It's just like any other high-action, dangerous activity like auto racing and base-jumping. People are going to emulate what they see. If you take the risks and survive, you win and you are a hero in the public's eye. But there is a serious price to pay if you make a mistake. The inherent problem is playing the odds... sooner or later the luck runs out... e.g., Steve Irwin.

I am pretty sure the next evolution of storm chasing will be individuals placing themselves in the direct path of tornadoes. Remember that guy who made the grizzly bear-proof suit of armor?

Stay tuned!

Warren

 

[Tony Perkins]

As someone who was in front of this thing, I have been trying to piece together what exactly happened here. We were less than a mile north of the intersection watching the funnel come NE towards us. We drove south and debated whether to go east on 11 or south and wait for our likely only intercept of the day. As it appeared to be moving NE, we decided to position east a bit instead and catch it when it goes by north of 11. At no point did I have any concerns about safety, and I'm pretty paranoid about chase risks.

The next thing you knew there it was behind you on 11. It was still a safe distance behind us, enough to stop a couple times, but not for long. It didn't move NE off the road and we only then noticed the rapid meso catching up to our position, lots of traffic streaming by (and taking that into account now as an escape risk), and how truely fast the storm was moving. We blasted south and got lucky with a dirt road 5 miles east of Hwy 132? in great condition.

I loaded up archive data on GRL3 a few days ago, and saw that it did indeed go NE until hitting 11, where it then turned east down the road for a while, before heading ENE again.

We too were fixated on the funnel, not seeing the meso forming as Joel T mentioned, and later on the main vorticies near the back of the meso, not noticing anything coming down much closer from the front. It wasn't until seeing videos from farther away that I got an idea of how wide the area of vorticies was, and how the blind front one above may have been closer than I realized.

There were plenty of mistakes to learn from this day.

 

[Matt Hunt]

Perhaps this incident will cause storm chasing tours, as well as storm chasers, to look into modifications to their vehicles that will keep them safer should things go wrong. Does anyone have something like this: http://www.windowarmor.com on their side windows? This would certainly help prevent flying glass inside the vehicle, from both wind and hail damage. The window may break, but it will stay intact.

If not that, maybe all passengers should wear safety glasses when they get close? Should the trucks have a roll cage installed... again, just in case. I would think the "professional" tour company that is concerned of an accident such as this costing them business would look into things like this to set them apart as a safer choice rather than bashing another tour company. Just my 2 cents.

Now personally, this would not keep me from booking a tour. I am one of those people that would love to get close to the action. Some may call it stupid, but to me it's the thrill that makes me want to get close, not the "money shot" or whatever. Same reason people skydive, or bungee jump, or even ride rollercoasters. A lot of people just like to get the rush of diving right into the edge of death, and hopefully escape alive. If not, we realize that's the risk we take. I used to ride a motorcycle, up to 150 mph, leaning close to the pavement on sharp turns with Mack dump trucks coming in the other lane. Yeah, if I would've wrecked I probably would have been done. That didn't stop me from doing it, because it was a rush, and I loved it. I feel like life could end at any moment, with or without warning, so why not live it to the fullest? If you aren't "living" life, you're just simply existing.

 

[Jeff Smith]

"grave danger " ? really?

It's the middle of May and I would think if you haven't sold out of seats already, you might have more of a problem than a video on TWC.
The video doesn't mention it being a tour group it doesn't even mention that it's tourist in the van, it's labeled as being storm chasers getting too close.

Grave danger? Yes, grave danger. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a high profile SUV could have been flipped easily. This could be easily a story of how chasers or guests were killed. Does it scare potential customers? You bet it does.

And yes, the customer that we most likely have lost was ready to book for 2011. We tend to look beyond the next few weeks. I won't go into how to conduct a business but looking down the road is a biggie....it's not rocket science.

Is there anything else that you would like to school me on about running a business? Appreciate that pard.