Which PART of an "interior "safe room" " is best?

[Jeff Hawkins]

I have a friend who just moved, and in her new place she was thinking about emergency response plans for herself. She asked me for assistance, and I gave her this: http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/safety.html for guidance. From reading this she determined (she lives in Wisconsin--yeah I know..not exactly the heart of tornado alley but still has the potential with just the right ingredients and she's not a storm chaser at all--she actually has the storms chase HER if they're happening but that's a different story--on the 2nd floor of a 2 floor apartment building) that the bathroom or a closet next to it were the safest places for her, but she was wondering *which part* of those places would be the best. North? South? East? West?

I initially directed her to http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/safety.html for guidance, and the site says right off the top "There is no such thing as guaranteed safety inside a tornado. Freak accidents happen; and the most violent tornadoes can level and blow away almost any house and its occupants. Extremely violent EF5 tornadoes are very rare, though. Most tornadoes are actually much weaker and can be survived using these safety ideas..." but she likes to be "solid" on her contingency plans.

I decided to dig around ST to see if this had been discussed before, and found http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?20568-How-safe-are-basements&highlight=safest+place ...This thread related to the question of "how safe are basements", but didn't find anything discussing the specifics of which PART of a basement (or any such safe room) was best. So the question is: has anyone ever researched such a question, or has there been any research since 2009 exploring this question, that I can send back to my friend to answer her question?

 

[rdale]

There is no "best" part. If you have a table or staircase to be under,that's preferred.

 

[Jeff Hawkins]

There is no "best" part. If you have a table or staircase to be under,that's preferred.

Thank you Rob for the response.
I gave the link to this thread to my friend for her to directly view replies. Thanks again for helping her !

 

[Bob Hartig]

Your friend might also consider keeping bike helmets near her safe place. One of the primary causes of tornado fatalities is head injuries.

 

[NancyM]

Is there a laundry room with interior walls on the first floor she can go to?

Here's a link:

http://www.tornadoproject.com/safety/athome.htm

 

[Dave C]

If a strong tornado is headed your way, you want to be underground or as close to it as possible. I would personally see if there is a basement shelter or at least a first floor neighbor I could shelter with in such a situation. While Wisconsin is not exactly prime time for strong tornadoes, they do happen there on occasion. You cannot typically know how strong a tornado will be before it strikes. Some people have successfully survived large tornadoes in their bathtub with bedding and mattresses pulled over them, but I think any one of them would have traded that scenario to be below ground or better protected.

Also, there IS NOT A SAFE WALL, eg. South, North, East, West. So many sources seem to think that tornadoes are straight line winds and tell people to hide in a particular corner. Tornadoes have huge pressure and wind shifts as they pass, vortices that will impact the structure in many directions, not to mention the debris going all directions. Just get as far interior, and into the strongest part of the building that you can and cover yourself with as much layers of protection as possible. Or better yet, find underground shelter or an actual tornado shelter that can be accessed very quickly.

 

[Matt Tottle]

You'd be safer lying in a ditch than in any room on the second or higher floor.

The idea of the bathroom as a 'safer' room has pretty much gone by the wayside.. That was true back when plumbing was made of cast iron and steel, which offered a degree of fortification to a wall or two in there and have a better chance of anchoring the tub in place. Today's PVC/ABS, thin-wall copper, and PEX doesn't stand a chance at any of that.

Some people have successfully survived large tornadoes in their bathtub with bedding and mattresses pulled over them, but I think any one of them would have traded that scenario to be below ground or better protected.

Last year there was a train of cells that came through here at about half hour intervals.. Several were tornado warned, but the power was knocked out after the first one.. This woman who lived on the south edge of town sheltered in her bathtub for the first one (she went by the sirens), then afterward fell asleep on the couch.. Since there was no power there were no sirens for the rest of the warnings, and she didn't wake up - until one of the cells dropped a EF2 that tossed her house right off the slab. She ended up with a bunch of cuts and bruises, but they found the bathtub 300 feet away....

 

[rdale]

You'd be safer lying in a ditch than in any room on the second or higher floor.

Absolutely not. If it's an apartment building, the upper levels are probably going to be fine. Certainly better than sitting outside

The idea of the bathroom as a 'safer' room has pretty much gone by the wayside.

I'll again disagree. The "r" is the critical part. It is clearly safeR than outside rooms by the simple fact that it's enclosed.

 

[Joshua Nall]

Yeah the size of the room, bathroom or closet, is what makes it more sturdy and a better place to be, especially if its in the center surrounded by other rooms.
I have seen some ditches that I think I would feel more safe in than top of a two story wood frame, but might decided against the ditch cause that is putting you right out in the elements. In the center of a steel structure I would think would be one of the best places to be if you weren't at ground level.

 

[Bob Hartig]

Rob, I agree and disagree. I note your use of the word "probably" when you say that the upper levels of an apartment will "probably be fine." Maybe, but they can also get shredded. Remember Plainfield, IL. I live in a top-floor apartment (third floor), and while it might survive okay, I wouldn't bet on it and hope I never have to. After all, tornado winds increase with height.

But I agree that I'd still be safe"R" in my apartment than in many a ditch. The problem with ditches has been discussed before. They are prone to flash flooding, fill with lethal debris, harbor snakes in some parts of the country, and can have power lines fall into them and turn a person into a crispy critter. Plus, if the ditch isn't deep enough, I have an idea that surface winds blowing over a ditch can set up a horizontal shear vortex in a ditch that could easily scoop a person out into the maelstrom. Given absolutely no other option, I'd still take shelter in a ditch, but not with much hope unless it was deep.

 

[rdale]

It's a small change - but you'll notice that we never refer to "safe rooms" unless they are fully engineered protective enclosures. SafeR is the ticket. From that point it's up to you to determine what you can access, how long it takes to get there, etc. I would never recommend a ditch as safe from anything ever. Is it safer than being out in flat land? I suppose. But you had to make a LOT of bad decisions to be at that point

 

[Matt Tottle]

For all intents and purposes, small apartment buildings like that are no different structurally than a regular house. Depending on the year it was built it may have more fireblocking structure, but the bottom line is it's still made of matchsticks, chalk, and plastic. If Jeff had said that this friend was on the 8th floor of a highrise in Miami (or somewhere else with hurricane/seismic building codes), then I'd say she'd probably be ok sheltering in place during a tornado. But on the second floor of a woodframe structure with no hurricane ties??? Hell no. Tornado wins every time.

 

[rdale]

I'd still call that better than a ditch

 

[Matt Tottle]

If it is, it's not by much...

 

[Bob Hartig]

The question of sheltering in a ditch has been well-discussed in previous threads. Here's a good one.