Where is ST really headed and what does it need?

[Richard Dickson]

Patrick,
I understand what you are conveying, but if the new folks aren't allowed to participate in the discussions in the forums with the grownups, how would Tim and the mods know from just watching general topics that they are really ready to offer some serious knowledge. Not being argumentative, just not seeing how the practicality would be worked. If you could fill in some blanks, I could probably support that concept.

 

[Patrick Marsh]

Ideally, I envisioned that people would be forced to run a similar setup as TA. This way new members would have to learn to abide by the rules of the threads in the main forum. In the new members section, members could post questions about what they see in the main forum, in addition to posting forecasts, etc. In this case, I'd allow moderated answers to questions from full members. (i.e., a moderator would have to approve the post in the new members area by a full member - and that post would only be allowed to address the question at hand. This starts getting into the mentor - mentee relationship I talked about in my first thread.)

I understand that this would probably require more moderators, but I'd suggest having dedicated moderators (or people who can *only* approve posts, not issue infractions or whatever) of just this section - and nothing else. Shoot, I'd be willing to do that. The key is, new members would be able to see everything going on in the "full" threads so they would be able to respond to those posts - just not in the original thread.

My thinking is that if a new member doesn't ever post in the new member thread then how can they be trusted with the responsibility of posting in the rest of the forum. However, if a user has a certain number of substantive posts within a certain threshold of time *or* has had enough substantive posts to catch the eye of someone, then they could petition for early termination of their "probationary period". In the end, lurkers could then lurk and full members wouldn't have to worry about lurkers being able to jump into heated discussions, people wanting to contribute to the main portion of the forum would be able to have a clear set of requirements of how they can earn these privileges (which might require work on their part), and full members wouldn't have a reason to worry and complain about lurkers, as they wouldn't be able to post.

This doesn't address the issue at hand of differences in philosophy of current members, but it would at least act as a way of trying to contain the issue at hand without adding new players to the drama.

I know it isn't perfect, but it does have something for everyone - because both sides of this argument do have valid points (as well as invalid ones). Feel free to pick it apart or modify it to something else. I'm just trying to offer a concrete suggestion as to one way to move forward.

 

[Richard Dickson]

I think I could buy into your proposal without a lot of modification. Like you, I'd even offer to help be a 'junior' mod for the submittal questions even though I might still be considered a newb myself within some folks criteria.

I'm personally in favor of allowing lurkers from the standpoint that they have paid their initiation fee, aren't making any posts that use up bandwidth and are probably here looking for knowledge. I also think the $5 fee should be raised so that it further differentiates between folks who are just kicking tires and those who are considering buying the car. Not everyone is comfortable joining a forum of a somewhat serious nature and immediately showing their lack of knowledge. Lurking serves as sort of an apprenticeship in a fashion. Any other folks out there who think something like this could be offered to Tim for consideration?

 

[Bob Hartig]

...there are those on here that would classify me as a newbie, noob, lurker, or some derogatory name like that.

Patrick, you've taken a lot of time to share a thoughtful and lengthy post. I want to respond to one very small fragment of it, something that is hardly the core of what you want to say, but which I think is important to clarify.

It's this: In my mind at least, the terms newbie, noob, and lurker aren't derogatory. They're just words used to describe someone who is new to this forum and/or to storm chasing, or who isn't a member of Stormtrack. We've got to use words that everyone understands in order to communicate, that's all, and alternatives such as "accolyte," "novitiate," and "callow youth" probably aren't going to fly here. Anyway, they're not innately put-downs, and I don't think most folks here intend them that way.

 

[Patrick Marsh]

Hi Bob,

You are correct - that was poor wording on my part. I certainly didn't mean to include ever use of these words as derogatory. However, there are some instances where some members use these terms in a context that gives the implication that it is a derogatory term. I intended to reference these instances, but did not clearly communicate my intentions.

 

[Danny Neal]

I think some of these ideas would benefit this forum tremendously, I am hoping we get feedback soon from Tim. Seems like the majority of us have come into the same general agreement.

 

[Jason Foster]

I agree, I think that after awhile people got sick of arguing and are now coming to some agreements. Tim V. I'm sure is busy, but will be commenting on much of this soon. I myself haven't even fully caught up on all the readings, but I'm impressed with some of the postings in the last two to four pages.

 

[MatthewCarman]

Patrick I think you came up with some good ideas.

 

[Lanny Dean]

I have thought about this, and I agree 100% with what you said.

Also, after looking at my previous post, I want to openly apologize to Lanny for what I said. No, I certainly don't agree with everything he says, but he has the right to an opinion just like myself. As long as we try to better Stormtrack instead of bickering back and forth, we'll get a lot more accomplished. Sometimes, I tend to speak my mind, but I think we all go overboard at times and say things we should keep to ourselves. There is a time and a place for everything.

I realize now that his starting of the thread was to possibly have ideas to better Stormtrack. We all know that this forum isn't perfect (which one is), but we need to attempt to get along and try to work out our differences. I know from firsthand experience that being a Moderator can be stressful and thankless, but they are very much required to keep this board where it needs to go, but they can't do it without our help.

Everyone, were in this together, so lets make the best of it. Life is too short for this kind of crap.

Again I apologize to Lanny and anyone else that I may have offended.
Don't get the idea that I'm tucking my tail between my legs and giving in. I'm just trying to settle some differences here.

Thanks for hearing me out.

I would like to thank everyone who has kept or tried to keep this thread from going to hell. Quite a few people have thrown out some great ideas and I do hope that Tim and the "mods" are keeping an eye on this thread.

I would also like to publically thank Jason for his post and give my apologies if needed. Although Jason and I have never chased together or even met, I have know of his name for some time and certainly respect what he has done over in the caprock.

With that said, maybe Tim will respond and we can keep this thread going with good ideas that might help in taking ST into 2010!

 

[Jason Boggs]

I would like to thank everyone who has kept or tried to keep this thread from going to hell. Quite a few people have thrown out some great ideas and I do hope that Tim and the "mods" are keeping an eye on this thread.

I would also like to publically thank Jason for his post and give my apologies if needed. Although Jason and I have never chased together or even met, I have know of his name for some time and certainly respect what he has done over in the caprock.

With that said, maybe Tim will respond and we can keep this thread going with good ideas that might help in taking ST into 2010!

I appreciate and respect you for that Lanny.

 

[Tim Vasquez]

Just to let you know I am monitoring the thread and working on a reply to many of the comments, but have had distractions today. Overall I think there are some good ideas being batted around here.

Tim

 

[Connor McCrorey]

Just to let you know I am monitoring the thread and working on a reply to many of the comments, but have had distractions today. Overall I think there are some good ideas being batted around here.

Tim

Thanks Tim. I have that some of the ideas, especially those Patrick and Richard have been discussing, seem like excellent changes to make if possible.

 

[Tim Vasquez]

It's probably going to be in the morning before I post the response. I'm going over and over carefully through the 60-70 posts in here and giving them all consideration. We will not be able to do everything that's been proposed, but some changes are in order that will take us in the right direction.

If any lurkers are following this thread that think their opinions do not count, even if it goes against the grain here, now is the time to speak up.

Tim

 

[CZandbergen]

While not a lurker, I would like to comment on the idea of building a class system for lack of a better term in the forecast area. I agree with everyone else that just quoting SPC forecasts is really bad form and probably only has a place in a now thread, i.e. new MD issued, etc. I think that is valuable information and I have used that as a heads up a couple of times while out chasing since I do monitor now cast and forecast threads once I am on the road.

All that being said, I think there is a difference between those that just leach and those that are learning. I think we should discourage the former and encourage that later. I fall into the latter group so you may consider this post self serving. This was my first year to chase and I went from someone that read the discussion page from the WFO to someone that makes their own forecasts with colored pencils. Did a lot of reading and paid attention to people in the forecast threads that knew what they were talking about. I would like to think that I am taking the right approach and I would also think that locking people out that are truly focused on learning the art is the wrong thing to do. All that being said as I am a newb I still get annoyed with those that never try to contribute and only critique. Contributing is much harder than poking holes. That is one thing I have learned. So I guess my point is we should not hinder those that make the effort just because they are new. Everyone was new once. Some just put in more effort than others. One other thing, it is very intimidating to post in a forecast thread when you are trying sort out what you think you know from what is just supposition. That is part of the learning process and it is a good thing. I do not think we should hinder that.

As far as limiting things to those that are "real chasers" I have no idea how one can separate the wheat from the chaff. I only went out 6 times this year so I don't know if I am a "real" chaser or not. Personally I really don't care what anyone on this board has to say about that. I have my own life, family, priorities, etc. I chased what I deemed to be worthy of chasing. Got to meet some nice people out there and had fun. Learned a bunch too. All in all that is success for me and I am happy defining my own success. For those that have a very high opinion of their accomplishments I would suggest that your view isn't the only one and you may want to take a step back and think about people other than you.

I think this board is pretty good as is and I would only suggest that we don't discourage people that really try just because they weren't doing it 10 years ago or have 1000 posts.

Tim, you asked for feed back and that is mine.

 

[Rich Long]

Ok well I'll contribute the Noob post here

I really like the idea of a full fledged educational forum. I don't really know what the old one was like but from everyones description it sounded like a good place where it was ok to ask a question and not be made to feel stupid and this is exactly why I joined. I'm happy to say I have not encountered that here but I have seen that happen in other forums I belong to. With that said I think the Mods would need to keep an eye on it just in case.

I have enjoyed being a member and as far as other noobs and lurkers go they need to understand as I do that there are places here that your not ready to post right off the bat. I like reading the forecast section. It helps me learn and see what you are looking at. I get to figure out why you are going where you are. I sure as h^$$ would never post there for two reasons A) I'm not chasing and B) I realize my skill level to those that are there. I might send someone a pm and ask a question or two. If the experienced member doesn't like that he doesn't have to answer. My heart will not be broken but I will try to make the effort to learn.

Overall though, good people, good forum!!