James Langford
EF4
Tim, thanks for taking this issues into consideration. I think the changes you are talking about implmenting will benefit the site as a whole.
James
James
Where is ST really headed and what does it need?
- Thread starter Lanny Dean
- Start date
Lanny Dean
EF5
Tim,
Very good changes that I think most of us like. However (and you knew this was coming
) I see there were no rule changes/instructions for the moderators per say.
I know that some of the issues involved the actions of a few mods... will we see any rule changes or instructions for the moderators?
Very good changes that I think most of us like. However (and you knew this was coming
) I see there were no rule changes/instructions for the moderators per say.I know that some of the issues involved the actions of a few mods... will we see any rule changes or instructions for the moderators?
MatthewCarman
I think those are good changes. I am wondering what this FAQ will have in it? Will this be about the rules or be weather info? If it is weather info we had a storm chaser almanac before and it was never updated.
I am wondering when you plan to add more moderaters? I feel having more mods at the site would take a load off of you and the other mod's. Just to be clear I don't want the job but you do need more help in my oppinion. This site has over 1,000 members and I think only 3-4 mods.
Again I think these changes will be for the better.
I am wondering when you plan to add more moderaters? I feel having more mods at the site would take a load off of you and the other mod's. Just to be clear I don't want the job but you do need more help in my oppinion. This site has over 1,000 members and I think only 3-4 mods.
Again I think these changes will be for the better.
Adam Lucio
EF5
Good changes Tim, thank you for taking the time to hear our cries. The main reason we're so vocal about problems is we think this is a place worth fighting for, even though it gets ugly at times.
Im sort of curious as to what the screening questions are...and would encourage people who know not to help anyone who asks!
Im sort of curious as to what the screening questions are...and would encourage people who know not to help anyone who asks!
Richard Dickson
EF2
I also appreciate the effort and Wisdom Of Solomon thinking that had to go into the solution presented. To Lanny's point, maybe not every topic got resolved on the first round, but maybe those can happen in the second round.
I was concerned that the heated discussion might have gone to far and a thought of "To heck with it, I'll just shut this place down" might have been the solution. I would have really hated that because this is a long established, quality place to learn and share.
I was concerned that the heated discussion might have gone to far and a thought of "To heck with it, I'll just shut this place down" might have been the solution. I would have really hated that because this is a long established, quality place to learn and share.
Bob Hartig
EF5
While there's plenty to like about all of Tim's solutions, I think his handling of the Bar and Grill is particularly savvy. You go in there by application, knowing what anything can fly, but it can still fly only so far and no shooting is allowed. At the same time, the B&G is given some social/emotional distance from the rest of ST in a way that ought to satisfy those who want a purer, professional tone. Strikes me as a great, win/win solution.
Does this mean we can talk politics in B&G now?
Danny Neal
EF5
That's what I was wondering, after reading it, I kind of got the impression that all the forbidden topics were now fair game as long as they stay within the realm of tastefulness. I think the presidential election thread we had went REALLY well. I would love to engage in some debate with others about meaningful topics if we can all stay chill about it.
Isn't it time for new moderators anyway? Nothing against Brandon, Dan, Chris, and I know I am forgetting someone else..... Wasn't there going to be an election process every year or so?
fplowman
Would getting rid of the report button in B&G and placing an un-moderated enter at your own risk caveat help? This way people cant whine and complain when their feelings are hurt on the internet. Not to be insensitive. But....
Michael Towers
Supporter
A concern evident among members pertains to membership itself, should there be criteria for membership or should anyone with $5 and an Internet connection be welcomed to ST? Is this a site strictly for chasers, or should it allow chaser wannabes, armchair chasers and/or the casual member? I think Tim made valid arguments for inclusion of the armchair type and problems with terminating the casual that are already amongst us. If the goal is quality of content and membership, is there a way to implement an approval process that reduces the number of incoming casual members? I like the testing measure and that may weed out someone who wouldn’t know a shortwave trough from a horse’s trough. I personally think the essay submission that was in place when I joined is an excellent measure for reviewing membership consideration but I understand constraints on time make it a burdensome undertaking for the reviewer. But I think there’s a way a screening process can be done that both relieves the burden of the administration and at the same time increases the scrutiny of the prospective candidate.
My proposal is to create an “Application†section of the forum. This section would be visible only to current members and would ultimately be where all application submissions are decided, not by the administration but by members themselves. Applications could include both questions and an essay; the essay topic and questions used could be formulated and agreed upon by membership. Completed applications would be submitted for review by all members, where members could vote yea or nay in poll fashion to decide whether to approve or decline. Members can post comments on their position, perhaps make it mandatory for nay votes in order to ensure the reason has substance. The threshold necessary for approval can be a simple majority or whatever level agreed upon. Approvals are automatically forwarded to the administration for completion, declined applications perhaps subject to administrative review.
I think this process would deter all but the most serious as they would not only be required to commit a more extensive effort they’d also know that their effort would be subject to open review by their prospective peers. The members would have a voice in selecting future members while the administration is relieved of most of that burden.
I’m sure there are better methods to screen prospective members and it’s surely something that can be improved upon but I thought I’d throw it out there.
My proposal is to create an “Application†section of the forum. This section would be visible only to current members and would ultimately be where all application submissions are decided, not by the administration but by members themselves. Applications could include both questions and an essay; the essay topic and questions used could be formulated and agreed upon by membership. Completed applications would be submitted for review by all members, where members could vote yea or nay in poll fashion to decide whether to approve or decline. Members can post comments on their position, perhaps make it mandatory for nay votes in order to ensure the reason has substance. The threshold necessary for approval can be a simple majority or whatever level agreed upon. Approvals are automatically forwarded to the administration for completion, declined applications perhaps subject to administrative review.
I think this process would deter all but the most serious as they would not only be required to commit a more extensive effort they’d also know that their effort would be subject to open review by their prospective peers. The members would have a voice in selecting future members while the administration is relieved of most of that burden.
I’m sure there are better methods to screen prospective members and it’s surely something that can be improved upon but I thought I’d throw it out there.
Jeff Snyder
EF5
Fred,
Before the "no politics or religion" rule was put in place several years ago, there were a lot of flame wars, and nearly all political or religious threads devolved into flame wars. I think I remember the two primary reasons why politics and religion were (and have been) "outlawed" in the the B&G.
1) Such devolution into bickering, name-calling, and flame wars was a near certain in these types of threads
2) The "hard feelings" experienced as a result of said threads often carried over into the rest of the forum... These often resulted in poor attitudes and "grudges" that carried bitterness over into the other parts of Stormtrack.
These two results, along with the fact that the active posters in the threads never seemed to "change their tune" or be convinced by the opposing side's arguments, lead us to ban politics and religion. Sure, there are always exceptions, and there are times when civil discussion can be had, but I think the recent example of the election thread had the benefit of all members knowing this was merely an exception to the rule that would be very closely monitored and moderated. I'd rather we keep this in the land of administration-granted "exceptions".
Overall, I honestly think this was a good idea, and I think this ban / prohibition should remain in place to help maintain a cordial environment. I'm game for all of Tim's comments, but I do think there will be more problems if B&G becomes a "free for all" discussion area.
fplowman
Hey Jeff,
Many good points in your post. And I do remember the flame wars and even took part in them a time or two. lol
My main line of thinking though was the fact that for me, I have never once used the report button. Not once.
Additionally I would assume that the report button functionality was only used by a small handful. I'm sure you can correct me if I am wrong. But I would think that the report button is used by a certain type of personality or person and not by everyone who reads a thread or is offended by something that was said.
I am unsure what started all this uproar most recently. I wasn't around and the thread was moderated before I could see what was going down. I'm assuming however the report button was used.
I like a friendly Stormtrack as well and you are probably right.
But my question would be is the report button over used? Additionally are moderators working overtime to comfort a few who feel offended and cant get satisfaction without causing more discord?
I would wager and I may be wrong but I would bet that no more than 5 - 10 people are responsible for 95% of the report button use on Stormtrack.
That was mostly my point for my post. Something to think about. And it is entirely possible everyone is using the report button but me.
Many good points in your post. And I do remember the flame wars and even took part in them a time or two. lol
My main line of thinking though was the fact that for me, I have never once used the report button. Not once.
Additionally I would assume that the report button functionality was only used by a small handful. I'm sure you can correct me if I am wrong. But I would think that the report button is used by a certain type of personality or person and not by everyone who reads a thread or is offended by something that was said.
I am unsure what started all this uproar most recently. I wasn't around and the thread was moderated before I could see what was going down. I'm assuming however the report button was used.
I like a friendly Stormtrack as well and you are probably right.
But my question would be is the report button over used? Additionally are moderators working overtime to comfort a few who feel offended and cant get satisfaction without causing more discord?
I would wager and I may be wrong but I would bet that no more than 5 - 10 people are responsible for 95% of the report button use on Stormtrack.
That was mostly my point for my post. Something to think about. And it is entirely possible everyone is using the report button but me.
Dan Robinson
Fred, in regards to the last controversy, I used the report button about two specific threads in B&G that had been there for about a day. From what I understand there were numerous others who did the same. Before the policy changes were suggested, I privately requested that the mods not make this an issue for policy change if there were only a very few of us complaining, as I'm not one to impose rules against the majority.
I've had a continuous membership here since 2005 (and for about 2 years prior to that), and have used those buttons maybe twice in my entire history here (mods are welcome to post my 'thread flagging' history if it is in question). To what extent others use the 'report post' buttons I don't know, but in looking at past forum history it's very rare for a thread to get flagged for the reasons that the most recent ones did (IE, being offensive).
Maybe the moderators could shed some light on this, but I would assume more posts are flagged for being out of place in Forecast threads than for being offensive in B&G.
Does anyone know of other cases where a B&G thread was closed for being offensive? I can't remember one for at least a year or more ago.
I've had a continuous membership here since 2005 (and for about 2 years prior to that), and have used those buttons maybe twice in my entire history here (mods are welcome to post my 'thread flagging' history if it is in question). To what extent others use the 'report post' buttons I don't know, but in looking at past forum history it's very rare for a thread to get flagged for the reasons that the most recent ones did (IE, being offensive).
Maybe the moderators could shed some light on this, but I would assume more posts are flagged for being out of place in Forecast threads than for being offensive in B&G.
Does anyone know of other cases where a B&G thread was closed for being offensive? I can't remember one for at least a year or more ago.
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Jeff Snyder
EF5
As a previous moderator, I can say that I liked the "report post" function. It made it very easy to keep up with any "problem" threads or posts when they pop up in the moderator forum; it sure beats having to stumble upon a problem post/thread/member in our normal reading of the forum. In addition, during my tenure, I don't recall any member really abusing the "report post" feature. Sure, some people used it a bit more than others when the member thought a post or thread was not compliant with Stormtrack rules, and this can probably be attributed to different levels of "sensitivity" -- some folks tend to get offended more easily (right or wrongly) or tend to see a particular post as being outside the ToS when others do not. The fact that I cannot remember any members who reported posts more frequently than others is evidence that moderators (at least during my tenure, though I assume it's still true) do not make "personal" notes or look differently upon members who frequently (or the opposite - never) report posts. Reporting a post is a form of community policing that many times more than not improves the quality of the board, even though there may be isolated instances wherein a moderator must use his/her own judgement to take preliminary action when the matter is pressing.
I do remember more than several times when a particular member reported a post, and the moderators, upon discussion, did not agree with the premise of the report and made no action on the reported post. However, personally, I'd still encourage members to use the "report post" feature and/or to contact moderators directly if a member has a problem with a post, thread, or other member. As noted, reporting posts to moderators when necessary (e.g. when a post is not complying with forum rules, etc.) is often the quickest way to get it to the attention of the moderating staff. Otherwise, it probably won't be noticed until a moderator crosses it during regular forum reading/browsing.
Note that I do not represent the thoughts of the current moderating staff, but I figured I'd give my 2 cents. I also think that constructive comments like we've seen in this thread can help ensure that this board serves the best interests of its users.
I do remember more than several times when a particular member reported a post, and the moderators, upon discussion, did not agree with the premise of the report and made no action on the reported post. However, personally, I'd still encourage members to use the "report post" feature and/or to contact moderators directly if a member has a problem with a post, thread, or other member. As noted, reporting posts to moderators when necessary (e.g. when a post is not complying with forum rules, etc.) is often the quickest way to get it to the attention of the moderating staff. Otherwise, it probably won't be noticed until a moderator crosses it during regular forum reading/browsing.
Note that I do not represent the thoughts of the current moderating staff, but I figured I'd give my 2 cents. I also think that constructive comments like we've seen in this thread can help ensure that this board serves the best interests of its users.
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I've read the posts in this thread several times and kept promising myself that I was just going to walk away. Something kept eating away at me about the tone of the original messages and what has been offered up as a solution by Tim that I couldn't keep it all botted up inside.
I haven't been in trouble once on this forum. I have never been issued an infraction, much less suspended for a week. This is due in large part because I treat people with respect - just the way I want to be treated. Additionally, I follow the rules. The suggestion that the current group of moderators needs to be replaced to make Stormtrack a worthwhile forum to spend time in is simply shifting blame and demonstrating an inability to accept responsibility for breaking the rules. And the notion that if this, that, and the other were changed on Stormtrack, "then all of the world's problems will be solved and I won't get into trouble anymore" is again a failure to recognize and accept responsibility. If ever I'm suspended from Stormtrack I'll take my medicine like a man and learn from the experience and the mistakes I made that got me there in the first place.
I actually met one of the moderators in Pond Creek, OK, on May 31st, 2008 and he struck me as someone who is serious about chasing and of all things he was somewhat shy. This moderator probably doesn't remember that day or me, but I do and my impression of him has not changed as I've watched his moderation style and it seems fair, consistent, and level-headed in every instance. Come to think of it, the previous description describes the other moderators on this board as well. Not one time have I witnessed a moderator being unfair or off track in my 2 1/2 years here at Stormtrack.
If anything is implemented from the suggestions found throughout this thread it should be the strike three rule. Strike three means you're done, you're outta here for good. If someone doesn't learn their lesson from being suspended for a period of time they never will.
Jeff Snyder made one of the best points in this entire thread regarding humility. When I was a little kid my mom told me, "don't break your arm patting yourself on the back". If you have to tell everyone that you're all that and a bag of chips it's time for some introspection and a long, hard, look in the mirror.
I just want to say to Tim and the moderators that I for one appreciate the hard job that y'all do each and every day to keep this place civil and a forum that I want to come back to again and again. I think it is unfair that your decisions have been called into question recently and you did not deserve it. I for one think Stormtrack is just fine the way it is and I appreciate what this place has to offer. Keep up the good work!
I haven't been in trouble once on this forum. I have never been issued an infraction, much less suspended for a week. This is due in large part because I treat people with respect - just the way I want to be treated. Additionally, I follow the rules. The suggestion that the current group of moderators needs to be replaced to make Stormtrack a worthwhile forum to spend time in is simply shifting blame and demonstrating an inability to accept responsibility for breaking the rules. And the notion that if this, that, and the other were changed on Stormtrack, "then all of the world's problems will be solved and I won't get into trouble anymore" is again a failure to recognize and accept responsibility. If ever I'm suspended from Stormtrack I'll take my medicine like a man and learn from the experience and the mistakes I made that got me there in the first place.
I actually met one of the moderators in Pond Creek, OK, on May 31st, 2008 and he struck me as someone who is serious about chasing and of all things he was somewhat shy. This moderator probably doesn't remember that day or me, but I do and my impression of him has not changed as I've watched his moderation style and it seems fair, consistent, and level-headed in every instance. Come to think of it, the previous description describes the other moderators on this board as well. Not one time have I witnessed a moderator being unfair or off track in my 2 1/2 years here at Stormtrack.
If anything is implemented from the suggestions found throughout this thread it should be the strike three rule. Strike three means you're done, you're outta here for good. If someone doesn't learn their lesson from being suspended for a period of time they never will.
Jeff Snyder made one of the best points in this entire thread regarding humility. When I was a little kid my mom told me, "don't break your arm patting yourself on the back". If you have to tell everyone that you're all that and a bag of chips it's time for some introspection and a long, hard, look in the mirror.
I just want to say to Tim and the moderators that I for one appreciate the hard job that y'all do each and every day to keep this place civil and a forum that I want to come back to again and again. I think it is unfair that your decisions have been called into question recently and you did not deserve it. I for one think Stormtrack is just fine the way it is and I appreciate what this place has to offer. Keep up the good work!
