This is unacceptable.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Douglas Mitchell
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I don't think that is to strict. When I come on Stormtrack I come on to talk/share ideas with other storm chasers. If I just want to talk about weather and such I'll usually go on J squared or Storm2k. Maybe that seems exclusive but thats kinda the idea. Stormtrack is a private association, privately owned and has no obligation to provide access to non-stormchasers. There are tons of weather interest forums all over the net and Stormtracks history of existing as both a magazine and forum is built on Storm Chasing exclusively.

I know it has no obligations to anyone, but does that mean we should strictly cater to chasers only? I have no official say in it, but I would be severely disappointed if said rules stand. It seems to be that despite the disagreement, we are *slowly* moving towards some sort of compromise. I will back down from "weather enthusiast" and say "storm enthusiast" while many on here seem to have no problem allowing such people while I was focusing on those who are heading for the chaser-only membership requirement. The biggest issue remains the allowance of posts that pertain strictly to storm chasing itself, I think that posts pertaining to just storms in general should be allowed, along with your assorted random non-political/religious based crap in the Bar and Grill area. That and posts that are fluff in nature should be deleted and proper action taken against offending parties. That and I don't think that enthusiast has to be interested in chasing, just as long as they are interested in storms and are willing to participate properly and accordingly.
 
With as diverse of a group of members as we have you are never going to make everyone happy. You have to draw the line on membership somewhere and the more I read on the topic the more I am leaning towards thinking maybe membership should be limited to chasers, mets, etc. We already made one compromise to get where we are now. There was a group of people who were upset about flame wars and post quality going down and I think they had to give up more in this latest compromise than those who were opposed to the Core. Perhaps we should accomodate that group now. It's not like weather enthusiasts can't read posts. Membership being granted to nonchasers is not going to improve their opportunity to learn (minus being able to ask specific questions), but it will certainly increase the number of flame wars and frivolous posts and ultimately the quality of ST. Not that I think nonchasers are any more likely to start flame wars and make frivolous posts than chasers. It is just that flame wars and frivolous posts are somewhat proportional to the number of members you have. It is an inevitable consequence of increasing your number of posters. As others have already pointed out, there are plenty of websites and forums that cater to weather enthusiasts. If we want a high quality forum then we need to make some tough decisions and IMO cutting down membership is one of them.
 
That is a good point, Jeff. Even newbies can learn from reading the forum. If they want to interact with an active chaser and learn more or ask question, all they have to do is go to a few chasers websites and start e-mailing. Heck, most members have a website and a link to it under all their posts. It simply isn't hard for somebody who is serious about becoming part of the community to do a little research, make a few contacts, and work their way in. You don't have to pass a met exam. You simply have to make a minimal effort to show that you are seriously commited the hobby and being an active member. Anybody that can't give us that minimal demonstration wasn't really serious to begin with.
 
There are a few people on here who will not be happy even if everyone was allowed to be a member. This is FIRST AND FOREMOST a STORMCHASING site. If all you want to do is complain about how unfair it is then go to the ACLU website, I am sure they will chat with you.
 
Here are a couple of other ways to look at it outside of our chaser box here.

Let's suppose we have a Chevy car forum? It's a forum about Chevy cars and the people who restore them, work on them and drive them. Now should that forum cater to other car make owners? How about the casual guys who like to go and watch the Chevys at the racetrack, but the guy owns a Ford?

Or even a reverse look at it....

What do you think would happen if we all showed up over on a political or religious forum and started demanding we be allowed to post about all our chasing stuff?

Here's one. I am interested in making some Amateur Films..... should I be allowed to join in forums that Hollywood directors use to talk shop?

Or how about Patrick Ware...(gonna use you for an example for a second here). He's an accomplished career airline pilot. I would be willing to bet he and other pilots like him have a place (maybe a forum) where they hang out and talk shop. Would it seem right for someone who is a flying enthusiast, who maybe has flown a few hundred hours in Microsoft Flight Simulator to join their forums and participate? He's a great guy and probably willing to give pointers to any up and coming pilots, but you can bet they like a place to talk serious shop away from that as well.

Just trying to present some alternative ways of looking at it.
 
There are a few people on here who will not be happy even if everyone was allowed to be a member. This is FIRST AND FOREMOST a STORMCHASING site. If all you want to do is complain about how unfair it is then go to the ACLU website, I am sure they will chat with you.

Politics...and a cheap shot.
 
Not politics, just stating that it seems that for every suggestion there seems to be a reason why it is unfair.
Cheap shot? Maybe but it makes my point. 8)
 
Invoking the ACLU is a political issue. The post and subsequent responses should be deleted.
 
That is not a political issue Douglas. He was simply pointing towards a website that takes complaints about violations of your rights.
 
To deny that the post was not meant to be both somewhat political or flame bait is asinine. The post and all of the responses should be deleted.
 
I applaud getting rid of the EE. That forum was a pit of vipers. With it gone, the site will be much better.

I'm not yet sure what I think about the other part. I hope that accepting new members hasn't been completely stopped. I wouldn't mind tougher screening or whatever it takes to weed out the wrong people. But I do hope that there will be a process by which new people can join. If people who have no interest or ties to chasing aren't allowed, I don't think I'll lose any sleep over it. The only thing I would disagree with is completely closing the doors to new meberships. From what I have read, that's not the case.

Overall, I am happy with the changes I've seen thus far. I think we'll have a more clean and tidy forum, with far fewer flame wars as a result of politics, relion or other controversial subjects.
 
Overall, I am happy with the changes I've seen thus far. I think we'll have a more clean and tidy forum, with far fewer flame wars as a result of politics, relion or other controversial subjects.

I agree George. I think it's good and will probably be a healthy improvement to the quality of the forum.

I think I'm still looking down at some chasers based on some of the poltical stuff I read from them in the old forum. Politics - such as Presidential election topics is divisive. What we don't need is members and forum places where we can all get mad at each other. I think keeping it limited more in scope to chasing makes it easier for us to bond based on commonality.
 
I've managed to stay out of this fray so far. I may be getting into some hot water here, but my take on this particular thread is that is is no longer informative, nor even remotely about weather or chasing. Yes, it IS about ST and where it may or may not be going, but it's becoming more of a testosterone contest rather than a "discussion". It's one thing to disagree and put your reasons for that disagreement forth for all to see. It's yet another to defend those reasons. However, calling for someone's posts on what I read as an analogy for comparison is uncalled for.

Ladies and Gentlemen (trying to remain reasonable here), I would suggest that no one post to this for 24 hours and let things cool down. Get things back in perspective and attempt to keep your feelings in check.

If this thread continues the way it's going, it will only serve to alienate one or two people from the rest of the community and continue to divide this group as a whole. If it DOES continue the way it's currently going, I would ask that a moderator lock it down.

This is getting us (as a group) no where. It's way to easy to infer something bad from the written word than to actually speak to someone face to face. Please keep that in mind. If someone feels that they are being slighted, mocked, or simply ignored, take it in stride. Don't try to create a division in which no one wins. We are all supposedly adults (most of us anyway) and as such, should have enough responsibility to take our medicine and go on.

Keep the heat in check and let's try and make this work.
 
Or how about Patrick Ware...(gonna use you for an example for a second here). He's an accomplished career airline pilot. I would be willing to bet he and other pilots like him have a place (maybe a forum) where they hang out and talk shop. Would it seem right for someone who is a flying enthusiast, who maybe has flown a few hundred hours in Microsoft Flight Simulator to join their forums and participate? He's a great guy and probably willing to give pointers to any up and coming pilots, but you can bet they like a place to talk serious shop away from that as well.

Just trying to present some alternative ways of looking at it.

David, this is very interesting. These analogies very much parallel the motivations to create the separate Core list in the first place... to either A) figure out a way to completely restructure the ST Forum to increase S/N ratio for the more veteran, seasoned chaser generation... or B) Keep the Core and the x1 version of the forum in place, with perhaps a more stringent moderation.

The "Core" group was created for a myriad of reasons; one major reason was a growing disconnect with the influx of new "storm chasers" being admitted to post in the Forum; thus an increase in "noise" as seen in the eyes of the more veteran/experienced/educated group of the Forum. It may not be that much "noise" to others. Since I fall in this group, it has been a problem for me, personally. I have a low post count as it is, not really because of professional reasons, but I find a very low percentage of stimulating threads in which to partake in. Most of the threads in the former W&C as well as in TA are fluff to me. Especially the former "TALK" in TA. What Mike P mentioned earlier, using the analogy of different "classes" in high school is fairly accurate. There is a fairly large group of storm chasers that emerged when the internet first took off in the mid 90s... that are becoming more disconnected with the newer generation of storm chasers... several of which that also happen to be avid internet forum posters.

There are so many storm chasers these days in this "new generation", many of which don't even post on the internet, that it is extremely tough to get to know on a somewhat personal/intimate level. This earlier "class" of storm chasers, if you will, were the ones that initiated the push to create a more stringent forum with much more signal and stimulating, thought-provoking posts... even for the veteran chaser of 8+ years like myself who have historically posted accounts/photos on a routine basis to peers since the mid-late 90s.

There *is* a growing disconnect, and this must be recognized as happening, and it will take a little more than x2 to really remedy the issue. There needs to be at least 2 levels of membership (The hardcore *chasers*) and the other newbies/non-chasers/very occasional, new chasers. x2 does not support this, at least at this point. The only thing I see changed is membership rules for only one "level" of membership, which are fairly vague at best. This still allows storm enthusiasts who are not chasers, trolls, etc. to get in and post at free will, increasing the noise.... as seen in the eyes of the more hardcore, veteran, seasoned chasers. Increased noise in their eyes = less interaction, posts, and ultimately visits until being completely turned off due to a lack of interest. This is a *big* reason why more veteran, seasoned, well-known chasers either stop interacting on this forum or never have in the first place. It may be a "privately run" forum, but it is open to public membership, therefore a public forum.

x2 is a start in the right direction, but it's not complete, in my eyes. Thanks,

Mike U
 
Mike U. - I think the new rules are trying to fix that problem. That's what the basic argument has been about. I am all for limiting the newbies and non-chasers, or those who can't contribute much. I think Tim is trying to implement a higher standard for accepting applications.

The best bet would probably be to have each applicant write an essay on their meteorological experience or chasing experience... I'm not sure how else it would be handled. I don't think using a persons website would be good, as I personally don't own a website, and never intend to.... I also do not have a met degree - but that doesn't mean I haven't read meteorological text and physics books (I would probably advance quite rapidly through the beginning courses)....
 
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