Discover Channel Tornado Special tonight

[Scott Weberpal]

I was contacted and sent footage in. I didn't here anything back that any of it was going to be used. Then to top it off, I missed the show. It's good to hear that it will air again this week. Congratulations to all who were part of the show.

From what I've heard (and from my experience) they were very good at getting release forms to everyone and were a very courteous company to work with. Surprisingly, they took my first offer for a per second rate, which I thought was even a bit high considering most of what I sold them was from '03-'05.

I wouldn't hesitate to work with Cheri Sundae Productions again, everything was smooth top to bottom.

 

[Sarah Austin]

Quoted by Bill Harke
In addition to not knowing about HDV (existing as a format)

That actually surprises me that this production company doesn't know how to use HDV format. I have a degree in TV and radio production. Video can be converted. Maybe they just didn't want to convert the format or didn't have time to.

The over-all production of this show was not quite up to par in my opinion compared to other shows on Discovery. I was still mesmorized, however, by tornado video. I think I'm just going through withdrawl from not chasing.

Thanks to everyone for clarifying the truth about some of the footage that was portrayed wrongly. That really bothered me too.

 

[Chris Wilburn]

From what I've heard (and from my experience) they were very good at getting release forms to everyone and were a very courteous company to work with. Surprisingly, they took my first offer for a per second rate, which I thought was even a bit high considering most of what I sold them was from '03-'05.

I wouldn't hesitate to work with Cheri Sundae Productions again, everything was smooth top to bottom.

I had no problems with this company either. They tried to offer me less than what I knew my video was worth, but they took what I came back with. I was happy with how things were handled and got what I thought was a fair price in return. It was mostly about not getting screwed money wise for me and that didn't happen so I am cool with it. This was my first time dealing with something like this so I learned a lot from it and how to approach the process in the future. I even received my money is a fairly quick manner. I was concerned I may have to track it down and e-mail them but that wasn't the case.

I strongly urge people that are seriously into chasing to get familiar with what videos are typically worth. I know Dan Robinson has a good reference table on his website. I thought the show was put together fairly decent except for some of the dates and info. being wrong. I would have to say the Canadian video of the tornado was very nice and something I hadn't seen before.

 

[Dann Cianca]

From what I've heard (and from my experience) they were very good at getting release forms to everyone and were a very courteous company to work with. Surprisingly, they took my first offer for a per second rate, which I thought was even a bit high considering most of what I sold them was from '03-'05.

I wouldn't hesitate to work with Cheri Sundae Productions again, everything was smooth top to bottom.

They'll probably try and talk you down next time then ...

 

[Lanny Dean]

I was also contacted by Cheri Sundae productions and ultimatly sold them 2.5 minutes of my Mulvane stuff and 1 minute of Greensburg. Much like the majority of other sellers, they scoffed at my per/second rate as there "budget" just could not allow it during the first conversation, but had no problem "getting the budget up just for me" in our second conversation.
Here in lies just one of the the problems (albeit a small one) I had with this production company...
After making the sale way back in July, I was assured payment the following Friday after the sale. That week came and went as did many others and finally receiving payment just last week after a few ugly phone conversations.

In the last 18 years I have dealt many production/network companies, from the latest of TruTV to Tiger Aspects, and for the most part they have been good dealings. However, I have to say that this production company is one that I will not deal with in any way in the future. Not only did we have issues regarding payment we also have an issue regarding copyrights (Which our legal team is addressing) not to mention just bad business!

As far as the show, I thought it very poor at best...with video out of place to SOT's being dubbed onto someone else's video and the horrible "stock video" interlaced with the better video....I thought it sucked!

 

[Rob Wadsworth]

"...I strongly urge people that are seriously into chasing to get familiar with what videos are typically worth. I know Dan Robinson has a good reference table on his website. I thought the show was put together fairly decent except for some of the dates and info. being wrong. I would have to say the Canadian video of the tornado was very nice and something I hadn't seen before." - Chris Wilburn

I don't mean to be asking a redundant question, but is it possible for someone to post that info here - in order to keep the conversation trimmed with a good background?
Does this rate change with production companies?

Just HOW MUCH money per second of video is expected by the seller/purchaser?
Does the subject of the video change its value?
e.g. does Parkersburg IA footage have more worth - than say the Hoxie KS event that didn't damage anything significant?
What should one expect?

 

[Kurt Hulst]

From what I've heard (and from my experience) they were very good at getting release forms to everyone and were a very courteous company to work with. Surprisingly, they took my first offer for a per second rate, which I thought was even a bit high considering most of what I sold them was from '03-'05.

I wouldn't hesitate to work with Cheri Sundae Productions again, everything was smooth top to bottom.

I would agree with Scott. I also was impressed by the FED EX issue with them paying for shipping and all i had to do was pop the tape in the envelope and go 2 miles down the road and off it went. They responded to my emails with in a fair amount of time if not almost instantly.

 

[Marc Austin]

I was also contacted by Cheri Sundae productions and ultimatly sold them 2.5 minutes of my Mulvane stuff and 1 minute of Greensburg. Much like the majority of other sellers, they scoffed at my per/second rate as there "budget" just could not allow it during the first conversation, but had no problem "getting the budget up just for me" in our second conversation.
Here in lies just one of the the problems (albeit a small one) I had with this production company...
After making the sale way back in July, I was assured payment the following Friday after the sale. That week came and went as did many others and finally receiving payment just last week after a few ugly phone conversations.

In the last 18 years I have dealt many production/network companies, from the latest of TruTV to Tiger Aspects, and for the most part they have been good dealings. However, I have to say that this production company is one that I will not deal with in any way in the future. Not only did we have issues regarding payment we also have an issue regarding copyrights (Which our legal team is addressing) not to mention just bad business!

As far as the show, I thought it very poor at best...with video out of place to SOT's being dubbed onto someone else's video and the horrible "stock video" interlaced with the better video....I thought it sucked!

Right on man! I thought the show was worthless! We sent them some screeners and they called us back interested in using some of our video. Unfortunately, they called when no one was available. We called them back, hoping to make a sale, and no one answered our calls. We called several times and left messages and never heard anything back from them. The real kicker here is that we gave them the screeners free of charge! Next time I will know better than to do that. I will chuck it up to not knowing any better. I figured, hey they're paying for it be sent, why should I make them pay more. I will certainly learn from this. If they're serious about getting video, they should be willing to pay for it and this should give the impression that our video is worth something, which is certainly is.

 

[Lanny Dean]

Rob,
Over the years the value has changed for the per second/flat fee dramaticly. I can recall selling video back in 1991 of the Redrock tor. for nearly twice as much as I can now. Of course with the current value of the dollar and all things being equal it is still possible to make a little money on the sale. There are many reasons for this I will not go deep into all the reasons but will touch on just a few: I would attribute this to things such as: the movie twister, every Ma and Pa with a video camera, cut throat chasers trying to make a dime/get noticed/become famous and last but not least, the media trying to get something for nothing.

As it stands, I believe the current rate is somewhere from $35.00 to $75.00 per/second. I usually do not even try to "play" with these guys...either they want the video or they don't, and if they want it, they will pay my price, not what "the budget is" Dick M. has a wonderful blog entry with some very interesting ideas/thoughts on his blog...might be worth looking at: http://www.stackedplates.blogspot.com/

For those who thought they did a "good job" I am going to assume that you have not had a lot of dealings with production companies IMO. Just beacuse they did a good job getting the Fed X stuff straight (so they could get the video faster) does not mean they are honest, and most certainly does not mean that you are going to receive your check in the mail any sooner than the next guy. IMO this production company is worthless, dishonest and stole a whole lot of video from people, if not outright then they swindled it with the "our budget is only so big" speach. Anyone who has worked in the media, or has been in the chase community for a decent amout of time knows what I am talking about.
Lie after lie after lie is all I got! Before anyone asks....yes, I got paid, but what a mess to go through to get it.

 

[Darin Brunin]

The real kicker here is that we gave them the screeners free of charge! Next time I will know better than to do that. I will chuck it up to not knowing any better. I figured, hey they're paying for it be sent, why should I make them pay more. I will certainly learn from this. If they're serious about getting video, they should be willing to pay for it and this should give the impression that our video is worth something, which is certainly is.

Just don't give in when they give you the..."we have gotten video from other chasers and they didn't make us pay a screener" B.S. Production companies know that it's standard practice and they just will try to play dumb with you over and over. Just as they will when negotiating prices...BE DEMANDING!

 

[Lanny Dean]

Darin is totally right...I got them to pay a screener, remember, it is you that has to take the time and go through the video, make dubs of the originals and then time to package and ship. I don't care if they are willing to pay for shipping (most companies do) I still charge them a screener no exceptions.

As I sit here pondering this whole situation it has occured to me that we (chasers) should set the going rate fee or the rate for the screens across the board. As in all of us (chasers) demand a certain price range per second to start and work a flat fee for ourselvs. Of course this would and could never happen because of the human nature to climb on someones back just to get to the top...cutthroat stuff.

Fact of the matter is, just try to be smart when selling your video and don't compromise yourself for $295.00 like some have done recently just to get your name out there.

 

[David Drummond]

As I sit here pondering this whole situation it has occured to me that we (chasers) should set the going rate fee or the rate for the screens across the board. As in all of us (chasers) demand a certain price range per second to start and work a flat fee for ourselvs. Of course this would and could never happen because of the human nature to climb on someones back just to get to the top...cutthroat stuff.

Fact of the matter is, just try to be smart when selling your video and don't compromise yourself for $295.00 like some have done recently just to get your name out there.

I think I am going to set me going rate at ZERO and just give it all away from here on out. Maybe I will become one of those Ireporters for CNN or some place.

After several years of other chasers cuthroating, backstabbing, stealing from me, defrauding me, trying to blackball me with producers, calling producers trying to discredit me saying I am lying about the location I am sending live video from (happened during the Galveston fire), threatening me with attorney letters for bull****, going on character assassination missions and the list goes on, I have had enough.

 

[Chad Cowan]

As I sit here pondering this whole situation it has occured to me that we (chasers) should set the going rate fee or the rate for the screens across the board. As in all of us (chasers) demand a certain price range per second to start and work a flat fee for ourselvs. Of course this would and could never happen because of the human nature to climb on someones back just to get to the top...cutthroat stuff.

Storm Chaser Unionization... I like it. Especially in light of the Fable's fable incident.

There are some great resources on Stormtrack regarding footage pricing that have faded into the old threads. There also is a good thread by Dan Robinson stickied in the Bar & Grill. People having this information readily available benefits EVERYONE (except for the production companies ) Here's a good summary from Warren F in the "What's the goin rate?" thread:

Most media outlets "think" chasers will let footage go for nothing.

Trust me, on the market, good footage, especially from this year, will go for about $90.00 per second for actual footage of a tornado. If you have something really graphic, like you being chased by a twister or you have the only tornado footage from a major event, then charge a flat fee of $1,500 to $2,500+. Do not undersell yourself. And... don't fall for the old media trick of letting them con you into selling it cheaper "because" you will be on TV or get a credit--- or when they say "Everyone else is paying this price." This is BS, they called my office two weeks ago and offered a substantial fee for footage a tornado next to my chase unit.

Charge a min. of 5 to 10 seconds. Be firm. Selling footage for cheaper prices just devalues the market.

Make sure to carefully read the agreement. Never license footage for any use BUT THE SPECIFIC PROGRAM LISTED ON THE RELEASE. Some media outlets try to wrangle a hidden term making it able for them to use it forever, for whatever they want. Make sure they are responsible for securing your footage by not transmitting it as raw footage via satellite or computer. NEVER SELL AS EXCLUSIVE!!!!! This will really hurt you in the long run -- and possibly put you in a legal bind. If they want an exclusive, charge a lot more, triple the normal rates and make sure the exclusive has a shot time limit to cover the first airing of the show only.

As others have said, get their Fed-X shipping number and charge for sample reels -- $50.00 to $100.00 is normal.

NEVER send original tapes or discs. Send a digital copy.

Most importantly.... COPYRIGHT THE FOOTAGE!

Cheers:

Warren

 

[Marc Austin]

Darin is totally right...I got them to pay a screener, remember, it is you that has to take the time and go through the video, make dubs of the originals and then time to package and ship. I don't care if they are willing to pay for shipping (most companies do) I still charge them a screener no exceptions.

As I sit here pondering this whole situation it has occured to me that we (chasers) should set the going rate fee or the rate for the screens across the board. As in all of us (chasers) demand a certain price range per second to start and work a flat fee for ourselvs. Of course this would and could never happen because of the human nature to climb on someones back just to get to the top...cutthroat stuff.

Fact of the matter is, just try to be smart when selling your video and don't compromise yourself for $295.00 like some have done recently just to get your name out there.

Yeah, I definitely won't make that mistake again! I guess we could set a standard "minimum" rate for per second footage, but no one would have to follow that so there's really not point. It would only be useful to give people an idea of how much they should ask in the circumstance that they've never submitted video for a television program. I guess you just have to ask yourself what it's really worth to you. God knows most of us aren't in it for the money and if someone asked me how much my yearly storm chase was worth... well no amount of money could really buy it. It's just something I love.

Dave, I can't believe you had people treating you like that! I love the Ireporter concept... free video from people who don't know any better. But everyone knows the Ireporters end up being famous one day and live happily ever after!

 

[Rob Wadsworth]

OK....
Someone shot me a PM concerning issues being discussed here.
I now understand.
Thanks for the briefing.