Will chaser congestion and unncessary risk taking lead to anti-chase legislation?

It should though. Not that our consitution means much anymore. In the rush to for national security and to protect everyone our rights are being taken away Call it what you want but Russia, Germany and other countries have done the same and the result is a dictatorship. The media has no clue about how storm chasing really works except for the videos they see. Our congress sees the news reports and think they know everything then decide to ban something or limit it. This works for guns, and maybe chasing. Not saying the media is on purpose lying but they do not do their homework either or know everything they think they do.
 
Regulating Storm Chasing: Has The Time Come For Such A Thing?

First off, let me start by saying that I'm not a storm chaser. However, I've been fascinated by violent weather ever since I was a child. I'm a long-time member here, but I mostly lurk and post occasionally.

This subject, I'm quite certain, has come up in various incarnations on this board. However, given the deaths and injuries to professional storm chasers in the news recently, I'm posting this question out of curiosity.

How long do you think it will be before storm chasing becomes regulated? What types of regulations might be put forth? Outlawing tornado tours? The importance of taking classes/tests to become a certified storm chaser? Heavy fines/jail time levied against folks who are total amateurs that are storm chasing simply for the thrill?

Your thoughts are appreciated. Thank you.
 
Saul Trabal said:
First off, let me start by saying that I'm not a storm chaser. However, I've been fascinated by violent weather ever since I was a child. I'm a long-time member here, but I mostly lurk and post occasionally.

This subject, I'm quite certain, has come up in various incarnations on this board. However, given the deaths and injuries to professional storm chasers in the news recently, I'm posting this question out of curiosity.

How long do you think it will be before storm chasing becomes regulated? What types of regulations might be put forth? Outlawing tornado tours? The importance of taking classes/tests to become a certified storm chaser? Heavy fines/jail time levied against folks who are total amateurs that are storm chasing simply for the thrill?

Your thoughts are appreciated. Thank you.
Click to expand...

I don't see regulation as something that is imminent or necessary. If anything, law enforcement will more than likely begin cracking down on chasers who violate basic traffic safety and vehicle equipment laws to the point that it becomes a shear annoyance and drives many from the hobby. I've seen similar things happen with other events and gatherings that were "discouraged" by local municipalities. Hopefully it doesn't come to that but if anything were to come I believe that would be the first and most logical step.
 
This has been brought up a thousand times, and even after this incident in which we lost friends and extremely well known and publicized chasers, I believe the same answer to this debate remains:
1. Regulation or banning of the hobby as a whole is unrealistic and will not materialize.
2. Enforcement of such regulation is impossible.
 
By the logic of the OP, we should also regulate the surfing and rock climbing hobby. When chasers start threatening the lives of non-participant citizenss, then we can have this discussion. But from what I saw, chasers suffered much more danger from the public and LE, then the public and LE suffered from chasers. Let's keep some perspective here. Why is it when something happens that makes it to the national news, then all of the sudden it's a crisis waiting to explode?

Why do we tolerate multiple idiots riding their crotch-rockets a 120 MPH through traffic, but a chaser gets hurt or killed or his vehicle gets damaged in a wide open area, away from the general public, then we need to "put a stop to it"?
 
How are they supposed to know any better? The videos are how storm chasing presents itself to the public.

Where are the widespread videos of storm chasers seeing a tornado form and then - pointedly, so the camera can hear them - calling the local WFO to report sighting the tornado? I think I've seen two whole videos where the chasers actually reported a tornado. I bet that kind of thing would go a long way toward at least helping to repair the public perception of the hobby. Right now, to most people, all storm chasers are, are people who come from all over the country to film your suffering and then drive home to post it online for Likes. Why would they be in a hurry to defend your right to do that?
 
truechampion said:
In the USA Today article it states that "storm chasing puts the participants at risk". So does race car driving, skydiving, and many other activities, but I haven't heard anyone say those activities should be banned.
Click to expand...

Those activities are also highly regulated by independent and government entities and have stringent oversight. NASCAR has its own internal oversight committee for safety, rules and governance.

Skydiving rules are overseen by the FAA and regulated by the United States Parachute Association. Gear has to be inspected and certified at regular intervals. Facilities have to meet certain standards, and instructors and pilots have to maintain certifications, licenses and undergo continuing education.

In storm chasing, as long as you have a driver's license, there's no other requirements, no certification requirements, no licensing, not even any training. So I'm inclined to think your comparison is pretty poor and not on equal level.



Chance Metz said:
It should though. Not that our consitution means much anymore. In the rush to for national security and to protect everyone our rights are being taken away Call it what you want but Russia, Germany and other countries have done the same and the result is a dictatorship. The media has no clue about how storm chasing really works except for the videos they see. Our congress sees the news reports and think they know everything then decide to ban something or limit it. This works for guns, and maybe chasing. Not saying the media is on purpose lying but they do not do their homework either or know everything they think they do.
Click to expand...

I think that's your opinion. The media has always jumped over anything that is seemingly "dangerous" as bad and portrayed in a negative light. Street racing, guns, drinking and driving, and now storm chasing. The discussion doesn't bank on what should be, it only banks on what is and what might be. I understand where you're coming from though.


Tim Vasquez said:
Looks like things have taken a bit of a right turn with the tragedy of Tim, Paul, and Carl... this does appear to be getting considerable traction in the mass media and now I do wonder if there will be a bit of a backlash. I don't know how old Tim's son was, but if he was a minor, that could be yet another issue to contend with. All of this could conceivably coalesce into some sort of anti-chase legislation. On the other hand, I don't believe there has ever been a bill that's made it out of committee, much less been proposed (at least to my knowledge). I would expect that legislators have their hands full with rebuilding, and if any serious problems came about it would come from any reports that chasers actually contributed to others' deaths, which I don't think is the case here.
Click to expand...

if it comes down to it, would you compile a staff of meteorologists and veteran storm chasers of sorts and go to state legislative and perhaps Congressional hearings to present the storm chaser community's side of the situation?

This looks like it could get interesting.

Tim's son was 24. So he was not a minor, but even if he were a minor, he'd have been under the direct custody of his father Tim, so I don't think that would really be an issue.
 
 
I wouldn't put it past the Kansas legislature, which over the years has shown a curious mix of activism, populism, and moral conservatism. The books are littered with state laws that have proven unenforceable and just plain silly in time, but that's never stopped politicians from trying something they judge popular. In whatever form, it will probably prove to be an awkward law, but I can see many overzealous law enforcement officers taking maximum advantage and giving a lot of people a hard time.
 
Hannah.Taylor said:
The pursuit of happiness is not written into the Constitution. It's written into the Declaration of Independence. Which keep in mind is not a legally binding document in consideration of today's (or yesterday's or even in 1776) laws. This was nothing but a formal document stating that were Declaring our Independence from England.

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/



and the Pursuit of happiness is not a U.S. right, and is not granted by the U.S, and as such has no legal merit in a courtroom or in legislation.
Click to expand...

How about this right that HAS been written into the Constitution in the form of the Bill of Rights (1st Amendment):

Freedom of the press protects the right to obtain and publish information or opinions without government censorship or fear of punishment. Censorship occurs when the government examines publications and productions and prohibits the use of material it finds offensive. Freedom of press applies to all types of printed and broadcast material, including books, newspapers, magazines, pamphlets, films and radio and television programs

This also generally covers freedom of scientific research also.

So, under this clause of the US Bill of Rights...the rights of any person to obtain a photo/video of a tornado (for possible publication) should he/she so desire is protected just as much as that of a scientist conducting research under the concept of 'scientific freedom', Or if necessary, just put some instrument on/in your vehicle and claim you are conducting scientific research correlated by photographic evidence.

In the meantime, perhaps the government and those proposing its expansion could better spend their time by coming up with ways to reduce the number of 11,000 people killed on US highways each year by drunk drivers (with one of those fatalities being chaser Andy Gabrielson killed last year by a drunk driver). In fact, Mothers Against Drunk Drivers put out a list showing Oklahoma to be the most lenient of the 50 states towards having drunks kill innocent people on the road - apparently, causing a death as a result of DUI is a case of "negligent homicide" in Oklahoma with a max of 1 year in jail and a max of $1,000 fine.

http://www.madd.org/laws/law-overview/Vehicular_Homicide_Overview.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Steve Burre said:
How about this right that HAS been written into the Constitution in the form of the Bill of Rights (1st Amendment):

Freedom of the press protects the right to obtain and publish information or opinions without government censorship or fear of punishment. Censorship occurs when the government examines publications and productions and prohibits the use of material it finds offensive. Freedom of press applies to all types of printed and broadcast material, including books, newspapers, magazines, pamphlets, films and radio and television programs

This also generally covers freedom of scientific research also.

So, under this clause of the US Bill of Rights...the rights of any person to obtain a photo/video of a tornado (for possible publication) should he/she so desire is protected just as much as that of a scientist conducting research under the concept of 'scientific freedom', Or if necessary, just put some instrument on/in your vehicle and claim you are conducting scientific research correlated by photographic evidence.

In the meantime, perhaps the government and those proposing its expansion could better spend their time by coming up with ways to reduce the number of 11,000 people killed on US highways each year by drunk drivers (with one of those fatalities being chaser Andy Gabrielson killed last year by a drunk driver). In fact, Mothers Against Drunk Drivers put out a list showing Oklahoma to be the most lenient of the 50 states towards having drunks kill innocent people on the road - apparently, causing a death as a result of DUI is a case of "negligent homicide" in Oklahoma with a max of 1 year in jail and a max of $1,000 fine.

http://www.madd.org/laws/law-overview/Vehicular_Homicide_Overview.pdf
Click to expand...

I like how you think Steve...you think like a lawyer! Could be a good argument in a courtroom, but would it hold any water? Possibly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_journalism

When I was at Middle Tennessee State University, I had a social media class that talked about anyone with a camera out documenting events no matter of their level of importance is considered a reporter/journalist.


http://www.dmlp.org/blog/2011/victory-recording-public

http://www.mintpressnews.com/part-2-citizen-journalists-emerge-as-major-players-in-the-media-world/

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/12/08/176195/commentary-citizen-journalists.html#.Ua96aRml59Y

http://john-savageau.com/category/citizen-journalism/
 
As I began reading this thread tonight, I obviously did so with the knowledge of the tragic passing of three very well known, highly respected, and widely loved storm researchers who out of necessity had to chase to perform their groundbreaking research. The news is still stunning to me, as I'm sure it is to many others.
I have seen numerous videos from chasers who were caught by surprise and had to flee for their lives, many with narrow escapes, and several that admitted that they made mistakes given the conditions. Many decisions were made that saved lives, and many were just plain lucky.

As I read through the first few pages of the thread I had to keep reminding myself that the comments were made prior to the news of the passing of Tim, Paul, Carl, and an amateur chaser whose last photo was of the tornado that killed him. I was relieved to see the conversation take on a more civil and respectful tone after the news became public, especially since everyone already knew that the storm had killed several folks who were caught in the same nearly unescapable situation as the chasers. My condolences go out to the family of those folks as well, though I don't know their names. These folks haven't to my knowledge been mentioned in this thread, which is surprising.

I'm not going to sit here and judge anybody involved. It's not my intent or my right. I wasn't there. I just know from what I've seen and heard that it got real ugly really fast. Many seemed to have been at a distance that would normally be considered safe, but nature isn't a computer program and doesn't always abide by the rules that we have (in our minds) set for her. We should never be surprised by what she is capable, but we should always be prepared. It is your arse on the line, not hers.

I don't think that legislation or more laws is going to protect us from ourselves. People are always going to try to get a photo of a tornado, a flash flood, a grizzly bear, a bull moose in rut, an exploding factory, etc, etc, etc. It may be the only one they ever see. To hold that against them is no different than holding it against chasers. It's just plain wrong to blame somebody when everybody is, to some extent, responsible.

I apologize for the ramble, but this seemed to be a thread for opinions. That is mine, and I admit that it is no more or less right than anyone elses.
 
STexan said:
By the logic of the OP, we should also regulate the surfing and rock climbing hobby.
Click to expand...

by my logic? First off, stop with the personal attacks. Secondly I have never stated I WANTED or DESIRED legislation. I made some observations that I believe it will happen if this type of chasing continues. Might behoove you to actually read the thread and COMPREHEND what is being said.
 
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