Will chaser congestion and unncessary risk taking lead to anti-chase legislation?

[jeremy wilson]

LMAO - it's not like they drove up to a violent rain wrapped wedge. They didn't see it from 20 miles out, set the cruise control and crash into it. The situation obviously escalated pretty quickly, as several chasers were caught off guard. My point was that perhaps we should find out what happened first? Did the crew stop and help a bus full of kids change a tire and they got caught? Did they just wonder too close like idiots trying to get the shot?

I wasn't saying a conversation shouldn't be had, and I wasn't saying Mike or anyone yesterday was right. I was just saying maybe we should find out what really happened first. Since the point of the thread is to bash Mike Bettes, and not provide any real useful information there's no need to wait for facts. It was my mistake not realizing the real purpose for the thread.

And Hannah in the end it's not up to you, or anyone else here how people chase. I know that must be painful to hear, but it's true. People have the right to spray line-x on a Tahoe and pretend that gives them super powers. People have the right to scream like children in HD while escaping a situation they put themselves into to get hits on youtube and sell footage. If people want to chase 50 feet from a huge tornado - they can do that too. I don't agree with how people like that chase, but I fully realize it's not my call.

We have this local guy with a HUGE ridiculous amber and green lightbar with skywarn stickers on just about every inch of his back window. It makes me cringe every time I see him, but I realize he has every right to do what he does no matter what I think.

Now if Bettes had a lightbar going when this happened, then that's different and %$# him.

Thanks mike, I just laughed out loud!!!! Seriously, that was valid and funny!

 

[Dan Robinson]

Over the years, I've learned that there is a direct relationship between opinions on issues like this and the level of one's familiarity/participation/experience with the hobby. One tends to change sides with several years and a five-figure mileage log of chasing under the belt.

 

[Chris Frost]

Just to answer the question of the thread directly..

No.

 

[Jason Russell]

Will chaser congestion and unncessary risk taking lead to anti-chase legislat...

This is obviously a hot topic for a lot of posters here. But it seems for some the maturity level of the responses is falling further than a barometer lost inside a multivortex wedge.

Come on people, we're all adults here, right?

 

[Hannah.Taylor]

Well this thread takes on a whole new light.

I'm hearing from very reliable chasers that I deeply trust, that Tim Samaras, his son Paul Samaras and Carl Young were killed on Friday while chasing the El Reno, OK tornado. I don't know the specifics of how, their position or why and I won't speculate either.


Mods, if you don't mind, out of respect for this tragic news, can we lock this thread for a week? The time for pointless bickering and fighting needs to come to a stop and we need to honor our fallen comrades.

Tragic and sad day.

 

[B Ozanne]

Warren Faidley tweeted last night that three storm chasers were killed, unconfirmed. This is very sad news.

Edit- it is looking more and more likely that Hannah is correct.

 

[Joey Ketcham]

At some point it's going to happen. Some day we're all going to be asking WHY? HOW? WHAT HAPPENED? WHAT LED THIS TO HAPPEN? WHAT COULD WE HAVE DONE TO STOP IT? TO PREVENT IT?

I guess you got your wish and feel as though your mission has been accomplished, whatever that may be. Yes, I'm sure many of us are sitting here asking why, how and what happened? I'm trying to handle the news as it sinks in, and I remember the words you wrote. The problem is, this was TIM SAMARAS! This wasn't some yahoo, irresponsible and inexperienced storm chaser. Do you care to continue sharing your opinions with us about irresponsible chasers? Tim was anything but that, he was a man who has contributed so much to the science, has provided data to help understand the dynamics of tornadoes. A man whose passion for storm chasing and understanding the science behind tornadoes was second to none. He was one hell of a guy, and one of the best chasers and researchers out there. I'm sorry if I seem like an a-hole, I'm only speaking from emotions as I try to wrap my head around this.

 

[Jacob Ferden]

I don't believe those questions need to be answered now. Let the facts come in, and if the worst is true, let people mourn the deceased. There will be plenty of time for those conversations later.

 

[Stuart Wilson]

I guess you got your wish and feel as though your mission has been accomplished, whatever that may be. Yes, I'm sure many of us are sitting here asking why, how and what happened? I'm trying to handle the news as it sinks in, and I remember the words you wrote. The problem is, this was TIM SAMARAS! This wasn't some yahoo, irresponsible and inexperienced storm chaser. Do you care to continue sharing your opinions with us about irresponsible chasers? Tim was anything but that, he was a man who has contributed so much to the science, has provided data to help understand the dynamics of tornadoes. A man whose passion for storm chasing and understanding the science behind tornadoes was second to none. He was one hell of a guy, and one of the best chasers and researchers out there. I'm sorry if I seem like an a-hole, I'm only speaking from emotions as I try to wrap my head around this.

We are all very sad and chastened by this news. I've been traveling across The Pond for 12 years and no doubt have crossed paths of these men on numerous occasions.

In the cold light of day we'll be able to digest what happened and why. Some of us will have to re-evaluate our passion for severe weather and how we go about satisfying that need.

 

[Mike Moore]

Oh man that's terrible news indeed. Those were some amazing people.

How about instead of locking it for a week we toss this thread entirely so that a new one, with a more reasonable tone from the start, can be started. We could all benefit when the time is right from a reasonable discussion.

 

[truechampion]

The last thing we need is legislation controlling the actions of chasers. Unfortunately, our over-sized government loves to control everything we do.

 

[Scott Weberpal]

MOD NOTE: This thread will remain open, however, will be tightly moderated from here on out. Please remain respectful to each other and remain on topic.

While we've loosened up some rules, snarky or insulting posts will be met with infractions.

 

[Karen St John]

I guess you got your wish and feel as though your mission has been accomplished, whatever that may be. Yes, I'm sure many of us are sitting here asking why, how and what happened? I'm trying to handle the news as it sinks in, and I remember the words you wrote. The problem is, this was TIM SAMARAS! This wasn't some yahoo, irresponsible and inexperienced storm chaser. Do you care to continue sharing your opinions with us about irresponsible chasers? Tim was anything but that, he was a man who has contributed so much to the science, has provided data to help understand the dynamics of tornadoes. A man whose passion for storm chasing and understanding the science behind tornadoes was second to none. He was one hell of a guy, and one of the best chasers and researchers out there. I'm sorry if I seem like an a-hole, I'm only speaking from emotions as I try to wrap my head around this.

I don't think anyone had any wishes, just observations. If such an accomplished chaser as Tim can get killed, it's even more likely some less observant chasers may get into trouble for which they have remedy.

Instead of getting mad, let's all focus on remembering Tim, Paul and Carl. Chase in Peace, guys.

 

[Rob H]

To touch on some earlier points:

The deviant motion and wobbling should always be anticipated. Someone threw out 4/27/11 as an example of straight paths, but the incredible steering winds that day kept everything moving along at 60mph and didn't give anything the opportunity to act up. Bring down the speed shear, throw in some boundaries, and you get crazy tracks like Jarrell, TX. Every EF-3 or larger that I've seen has done something in its motion that made me pause. Also, not trying to throw Bettes under the wheels here, but I saw something about his defense being that the situation quickly escalated. How do you chase storms for several years, or chase storms period, without knowing that a dryline storm interacting with a boundary and a forecasted effective STP of 12 can do some extreme things?

To the topic at hand, besides being nearly impossible, chasers might not even need to be policed anymore. Why?

We finally lost chasers to a storm, and they were some of the best. Now we all know we're mortal - because it wasn't some reckless, inexperienced whacker - it was someone we all liked, respected, and knew respected the storms. Couple that with the horrible driving and traffic that many of us have seen in Wichita and OKC this month, and chasers are scared of storms and scared of too many cars blocking escape paths, talking about not chasing the southern plains anymore. We're self policing now because it's escalated to the point where we need to, to survive. Next high risk over OKC, how many of us are going to be on it? I know I won't be. Next HP storm with 12 eSTP, how many of us are going to dive into it in a desperate attempt to see what's lurking inside? I know I won't be doing this, either.

There will still be convergence, it will get worse, and there will be more "chasers" getting hit. But it won't be people on Stormtrack, and it probably won't be people any of us know or have ever met. It will be locals with cell phones out looking for a storm, that can't distinguish between a descending reflectivity core and a wall cloud.

 

[Chance Metz]

I sure hope not. I doubt anyone in congress knows much technical info about tornadoes or chasers so really they have no right making laws against something they no little about. That said I think they will try to do something to protect people but really it will make it harder to enjoy our passion. This was a odd storm that did things I have never saw before and caught everyone off guard and that is all that should happen, nothing unless we all strive to be as safe a possible.