Where do you get your plotted maps for hand analysis?

[George Tincher]

Let me start out by saying I have reviewed those on SPC's site, as well as those available from COD. I really like those provided by the SPC. But I am having a problem using them. You see, I don't have a printer compatible with the larger 11x17 size paper required to properly use those. And I am finding that I can't get a usable map (especially the sfc maps) using standard size paper. There's simply too much data and too little room in which to print it and have anything that's large enough to be practical that will fit the screen. And if it's sized where it will properly print on 11x8.5 paper, the detail (temps, dew points, pressure, etc) is too fine to read.

So how do you folks go about the task of hand analysis without using special equipment? I really hope there is some sort of working alternative besides having to go out and buy a new printer and yet another type of paper just to be able to perform this function. That would be pretty discouraging because I really want to be able to practice these skills I've been learning from Tim V's books, various websites and friends who have provided some great tips. But it just seems I am having trouble finding usable online plotted maps that are large enough to read, while being small enough to work on standard size paper.

I would even be willing to even use regional type maps if those are available as a solution, provided they are large enough in total area to display most of the relevant storm system info.

Anyone else encountered this problem? Anyone have any solutions? Or am I pretty much SOL unless I go out and buy a new laser or Ink Jet printer?

 

[JF Massicotte]

Hi George,

I use Digital Atmosphere from The V.

You can do whatever you want with your maps.

You can get it there: www.weathergraphics.com

Have a good season,

JF

 

[Patrick Marsh]

Let me start out by saying I have reviewed those on SPC's site, as well as those available from COD. I really like those provided by the SPC. But I am having a problem using them. You see, I don't have a printer compatible with the larger 11x17 size paper required to properly use those. And I am finding that I can't get a usable map (especially the sfc maps) using standard size paper. There's simply too much data and too little room in which to print it and have anything that's large enough to be practical that will fit the screen. And if it's sized where it will properly print on 11x8.5 paper, the detail (temps, dew points, pressure, etc) is too fine to read.

So how do you folks go about the task of hand analysis without using special equipment? I really hope there is some sort of working alternative besides having to go out and buy a new printer and yet another type of paper just to be able to perform this function. That would be pretty discouraging because I really want to be able to practice these skills I've been learning from Tim V's books, various websites and friends who have provided some great tips. But it just seems I am having trouble finding usable online plotted maps that are large enough to read, while being small enough to work on standard size paper.

I would even be willing to even use regional type maps if those are available as a solution, provided they are large enough in total area to display most of the relevant storm system info.

Anyone else encountered this problem? Anyone have any solutions? Or am I pretty much SOL unless I go out and buy a new laser or Ink Jet printer?

Stealing rdale's favorite line from another forum "Run gempak and make them yourself"

In all honesty, by spring, the HOOT project from OU will have maps dedicated for hand analysis. I'm a big hand analysis person (just ask my students - I'm making them do a ton) but I typically just run gempak and make my own. Since I have the scripts already written, it's a matter of implementing them on the larger site.

What kinds of maps would people be interested in contouring? If people give me a list of what they want I can start implementing them myself or have some of the undergraduates do it.

 

[rdale]

Stealing rdale's favorite line from another forum "Run gempak and make them yourself"

Ouch - exactly what I was thinking as I read his post

 

[George Tincher]

Thanks for the recommendations so far guys. I went and looked at both Digital Atmosphere and GEMPAK to try to get a feel for what they can do. Both appear to be excellent programs. That said, both will likely require a great deal of learning on my part just to be able to understand how to use all of their abilities. Hehe. But that's ok. That probably means they can do a ton of stuff.

If I were to have an interest in this GEMPAK software, how do I go about obtaining it? I assume this is software I'll have to buy, even though my Google search seemed to indicate that you could download it free from Unidata, provided you meet their guidelines for non-profit, educational use, etc.

And finally, what exactly can GEMPAK do? Is this a program that basically plots everything for you, draws the contours, frontal boundaries, etc? Or does it allow the user to manually do that stuff as well? Again, I would actually like to be able to do all the work myself if I choose (especially at first) because I truly want to master the process of hand analysis. Again, please excuse all of my questions about this software. I've just never used it and would like to know as much about it as possible before buying it, to make sure its what I really want.

BTW, thanks Patrick for mentioning the OU Hoot page. I didn't know that even existed. I took a look at some of the analysis stuff you folks have on there and it seemed pretty nice. I especially like how the surface plot is broken down into regions so that it allows you the opportunity to view a pretty good chunk of area while being able to clearly see and make out the obs. I'll keep checking back there as the year progresses to see what new goodies is added.

 

[Patrick Marsh]

Thanks for the kind words about the HOOT page. I'll be sure those comments get around to everyone.

As for Gempak. It is completely free and is used extensively by the SPC for almost everything that they do. The only catch is, it doesn't run on windows. It's designed for use on computers built off a *nix kernel. All of the graphics on the HOOT page are generated via Gempak. We use PERL for the text manipulation and then imagemagick for overlaying the text, logos, images together. In essence, anything done on the hoot page can be done using free software.

Now accessing the raw data is a different story... I'll let others chime in on that. I have access to an LDM from OU, so I don't have to worry about the data.

 

[rdale]

If you are a University student, or have a NOAAPORT satellite dish, the data is free. I sell a package that is for us 'outsiders' - it uses open sources, but it converts them to a format that GEMPAK can read. It's stuff you can do yourself, but I've spent years tweaking the sources and the conversion process so it may not be quick and painless...

 

[John Wetter]

I'm a big hand analysis person (just ask my students - I'm making them do a ton)

Ah, you're one of 'those' teachers...

J/K. I can say that I learned more about analysis of stuff doing hand plots than anything else. It's refreshing to hear someone say they want to do it.

Now, keep all those station models so they fit under a dime too. ;-)

-John

 

[George Tincher]

Rob, it appears I am definitely in that "outsider" category after reading all the criteria. That said, GEMPAK does sound great. I'll admit, this wasn't exactly where I was looking to go when I started this thread, but I realize that GEMPAK is simply so much more than a source of map plots. It will allow me to do a ton of other things. And I am sure there will be days when having it will save me a lot of time. So I'll likely be sending you a PM in the coming days to inquire about the software package you sell and the system requirements necessary to run it. Or if that info is readily available online, you might just pass the link on to me when you have the time, if you wish to do so.

 

[Tim Vasquez]

Yeah, I'm biased since I wrote it, but Digital Atmosphere is definitely the way to go for generating maps on a Windows machine. It's heavily built around hand analysis. I'll readily admit that when it comes to radar I use GRLevelX rather than my own software, but when it comes to printed surface maps, nothing else gets used but Dig Atm.

Here are some examples of hand analysis with Digital Atmosphere:
http://www.chasehotline.com/07050419.jpg
http://www.chasehotline.com/anl.jpg
http://www.chasehotline.com/may2a.jpg

Yes, that last frame is radar... I always try where possible to mesh base reflectivity with surface plots... that way I can keep extremely close tabs on boundaries.

Tim

 

[Paul Knightley]

Not having a printer with us when chasing, I copy the plotted obs onto a blank map of the states, and then analyse that.

 

[Patrick Marsh]

Ah, you're one of 'those' teachers...

J/K. I can say that I learned more about analysis of stuff doing hand plots than anything else. It's refreshing to hear someone say they want to do it.

Now, keep all those station models so they fit under a dime too. ;-)

-John

You better believe I am!

As I type, I have a couple scripts in the process of running to create several upper air and mesoanalysis (regional surface) charts from 00Z 13 May 06 for the students to analyze. Next week, I'll have the students use Gempak to examine the 00Z model initialization and compare that to their hand analysis.

My students hate me...

 

[rdale]

Or if that info is readily available online, you might just pass the link on to me when you have the time, if you wish to do so.

Some basic info is online at http://skywatch.org -- I'm going through a revamp of the website though, so everything may not be in place...

 

[Gene Moore]

Yeah, I'm biased since I wrote it, but Digital Atmosphere......
Here are some examples of hand analysis with Digital Atmosphere:
http://www.chasehotline.com/07050419.jpg
http://www.chasehotline.com/anl.jpg

A shameless plug for Tim. If you're not compelled to use a specific product (as for some students) Digital Atmosphere is the way to go for a Windows based notebook. I still use the older DA2000 as opposed to the newer version, like it better. In some ways it's old school, but unfortunately the new computer generated surface graphics (we find online) do not have the resolution to equal this. Most importantly they don't have the intuitive skill to set the difficult boundaries, like morning outflow boundaries. Remember in chasing your target is storm scale, that is something smaller than 20 miles in diameter. Pretty colors and online graphics likely won't take you to that level of detail.

 

[Andrea Griffa]

A shameless plug for Tim. If you're not compelled to use a specific product (as for some students) Digital Atmosphere is the way to go for a Windows based notebook. I still use the older DA2000 as opposed to the newer version, like it better. In some ways it's old school, but unfortunately the new computer generated surface graphics (we find online) do not have the resolution to equal this. Most importantly they don't have the intuitive skill to set the difficult boundaries, like morning outflow boundaries. Remember in chasing your target is storm scale, that is something smaller than 20 miles in diameter. Pretty colors and online graphics likely won't take you to that level of detail.

Gene those are words of wisdom but on the other hand there's an high utility in those Dig Atm maps: there are situations, especially before convection, where the radar can't display any kind of boundary(both at macro and microscale);it's not rare that in these cases unfortunately it happens that the main models don't agree about the position of the dry line or triple point or whatever you want. Here is the importance of those Dig Atm maps: to have a real time position of the fronts and compare with models forecast;in this way if the model is making a mistake you can amend before it is too late.