To all of my fellow chasers... please read.

[Kirk Chestnut]

In the news business "If it bleeds. . .it leads." But just like the general public, the news media attention span is short and this is already "yesterday's news."

It's too bad the collective expertise of this forum/hobby/movement couldn't be redirected in a more organized observation network. How many EM/Skywarn/NWS offices would love to have this level of expertise in the field at fixed points rather than in a moving mass.

 

[Sean Ramsey]

Concerning the original post... The problem is not the percentage of chasers that don't know what they are doing. It's the percentage of chasers that all have to be in the exact right spot..... all the time..... and up close... to see a tornado. it's actually not even the numbers, and there are folks in that mix that don't know what they are doing... but it's those that don't really CARE what they are doing that are the problem... the degree of weather knowledge has nothing to do with it. It's just folks being IRRESPONSIBLE. Folks that don't obey traffic laws, don't care about other folks property (Look at the video on the muddy field thread.....I paraphrase..."We're in a field?!!!!..... HAHAHAHAHAHA!" To give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe there was some remorse for what had happened later on.

I agree with this statement. I don't believe it's the number of chasers making it dangerous, but the desire of a few to get as close as they can to a tornado (whether they have experience or not) combined with the numbers of people who now chase, which makes it tougher for them to get to their target area when they figure out where they need to be. It's become a popular hobby/interest for many people and it's very easy to figure out where to be with all the information available and combined with the ease of receiving it in your vehicle as you chase, the crowds aren't going to disperse anytime soon. But what if a few more people decided (and had the money) to put 3 or 4 more TIV's/Dominators on the road, and the push to be inside (or as close to) a tornado is even greater, which in turn increases the pressure to get through the traffic...the need to be in the exact spot, that's where the future danger lies. Everyone has the right to chase a storm if they like, but human nature to be bigger/stronger/faster/closer may end up hurting everyone in the long run.

 

[Jeff Turner]

Chasers got involved in local emergency groups moving debris and helping out victims.

Just a suggestion as an outsider (non-chaser) looking in but some chasers might consider joining CERT, and carrying your issued equipment with you on a chase that ends in some damaged town if you are needed by first responders. The gear and such would make you visible and legitimate. But as an aside the local media is largely clueless about what CERT is.

http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/

Some of our local CERTmembers are spotters/RACES folks BTW.

 

[John Mullen]

Well, I've had a few fingers pointed my way, calling me out as disrespectful and such but I do not see how. If anything, I'm being too nice and sincere. This thread was directed toward the jackasses that are being irresponsible and careless while chasing, whether or not they have been chasing 10 days or 10 years. Let me sum it up, I feel like a lot of you have misinterpreted the point of the thread.

I feel that the truly passionate chasers are the only ones that reallybelong in the plains. If you're there just to see something "cool" or to be "cool", you're in the wrong field. I see a strong correlation between this and irresponsibility. I'm not saying that just because it's not in your heart, you shouldn't be doing it. I just feel like there's too many people that are going out "because it's cool" (don't believe me? browse around Youtube for 30 minutes). It tends to be those individuals that behave carelessly.

I never said you had to chase the "old school way". I simply said that if you don't know how to chase without all the techno crap, then you probably need to reevaluate your stance. Any chaser that is worth his weight should be able to hold his own in the field. I have no problem with using an air card, GRLevel, or writing my own software. Technology is great and it's making our chases easier... while making it more appealing to those that have no prior knowledge as well. Trust me though, go out on just one chase without all that crap, and see how much better it feels at the end of the day. Maybe I should've worded it differently, I apologize, but that's the way I feel.

Timmer, Discovery crew, etc... I respect Timmer as a person but I don't respect his ways. The infamous "BACKKK UPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!" video turned the tides for me. Hell, we all enjoy being "close"... but sometimes, your life just isn't worth "the perfect shot". I don't feel like bashing him or calling him out directly but you get the idea. His show reflects on the public's view of storm chasing and he is misrepresenting us as something (most) of us are not. Great, he's getting a PhD and is making $500,000 a year, good for him. I'm happy for him. I just don't like his behaviour during chases. It's nothing personal.

"....for someone to to tell other inexperienced chasers to stay out of the great plains? Ridiculous and selfish."

Let me break this down, ok? What I said was that the plains is no place for the "inexperienced, uneducated and misinformed individual". You don't agree?

If they don't know what they're doing and they don't care to learn... then it's my opinion that they need to GTFO. How is that being disrespectful? Would you attempt to climb Everest or K2 without any prior training? Hopefully not. Safety should be our top priority. When you have to watch out for 50 people around you that have NO clue as to what's going on, there is a problem. There is a HUGE difference between an inexperienced storm chaser that is wanting to learn and some idiot that just wants to see something so they can brag about it. Get what I'm what I'm saying, man?

I don't see anything wrong with people that are inexperienced chasers, as long as they are responsible and are willing to learn. Granted, I should've worded it differently (maybe I should rewrite/take down the whole thing), but I think you understand where I'm getting at. I'm not bashing the inexperienced chasers (hell, we were all in that boat at one point and some of us still are!) by any means, I'm just stating my opinion. I feel that if your heart and mind isn't in the game then you should probably check yourself. I don't see anything wrong with that.

This whole thing boils down to lack of responsibility by both the experienced and inexperienced. There's always going to be a few bad apples that can ruin it for everyone around them. I think the stunt that was pulled the other day is the perfect example of this. Risking the lives of their crew, other chasers, and the general public with absolutely no regard for safety. Experienced or not, that was just plain stupid.

Are all chasers like that? NO.

Are all inexperienced chasers like that? NO.

It's always hit and miss. But I feel that those that behave like that (in actions and in words), whether or not you're a "paid professional".... it's just flat out wrong. It's time to start "self-policing" the problem.

Hopefully that clears it up. I just feel there's some things going on in the community that needs to be addressed and I'm not afraid to bring them to light.


To those of you that conduct your business irresponsibly... here is not the place to give you a piece of my mind. But I will say that you should be ashamed and you need to do something about it.


And to those of you that are responsible, I look up to you. So thanks for enjoying our "hobby" without almost getting everyone around you killed.

 

[MClarkson]

Are we having this discussion AGAIN? Is it not the choice of each individual to decide whether they want to stay a long way away or get closer and accept a slightly elevated risk. And are you seriously comparing climbing K2 to chasing? And even something as dangerous as K2 has no organization that attempts to determine if potentials are competent. The mountain will make that decision, not climbers 'policing their own', not the Pakistani tourism ministry, or any other group of people.

If someone wants to drive right up to a tornado, who are we to say that he cannot? That is not the American way.

 

[John Mullen]

Are we having this discussion AGAIN? Is it not the choice of each individual to decide whether they want to stay a long way away or get closer and accept a slightly elevated risk. And are you seriously comparing climbing K2 to chasing? And even something as dangerous as K2 has no organization that attempts to determine if potentials are competent. The mountain will make that decision, not climbers 'policing their own', not the Pakistani tourism ministry, or any other group of people.

If someone wants to drive right up to a tornado, who are we to say that he cannot? That is not the American way.

You missed the whole point of this thread. This is pointless. I give up.

 

[Mike Moore]

I thought it was a great original post John, but most won't go back and read - they'll just jump on the attack bandwagon. It's the current "in" thing to do on ST it seems.

 

[Mikey Gribble]

I've been on here for a long time. I think about 7 years now. These types of threads come up every year. I can understand why some people get tired of it. Go look at the archives and you'll find threads like this going back as far as you want to look.
The thing I strongly disagree with is this idea that there is a widespread commonly held public opinion of chasers. Number one the vast majority of people in the plains love chasers. They understand what we do, they respect what we do and they are very interested in what we do. They don't think we're yahoos and they don't think we are endangering anybody. I have seen several videos of people from Greensburg and Picher who lost their homes being asked what they thought about the chasers. They all had nothing but good things to say. They appreciate what we do.
I think what a lot of people loose site of is that outside of our little chaser community, NOBODY CARES about things like this. Normal people know nothing about chasing, know nothing about how it has changed and they know nothing about these little spats and arguments that take place in the chase community every year.
I love Vasquez and Doswell as much as the next guy. They are both my favorite authors and I obviously have a great deal of respect for both of them, but they have no more right to a storm than anybody else out there. Chasing is getting more popular every year and storms are getting more crowded. Thats just the way it is and I don't see it changing. If you don't like it then don't chase. Seems simple enough to me.

 

[David Conaway]

I was only trying to respond to the original post by John. I personally could care less as to what all of the other chasers are doing or think. I live in the DFW area and when I'm home I have to drive in traffic daily. This is why when I do chase, I will try to avoid the obvious areas where most chasers will be. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here.

Heck, there are also positives for such a large chaser convergence during every severe weather day. Think about all of the real small towns in the plains. During a busy chase season, imagine how much of a boost to the local economy there is for these towns that would normally not be there. With the population of the chaser community growing, this will continue to increase. In my mind this is a good thing.

I understand the frustration of having to fight through the number of threads that are basically about the same thing and hearing all of the whining. This was my first thread where I gave my thoughts about the situation and I probably should have kept quiet instead.

David Conaway

 

[Rob H]

For the most part, I could honestly care less what other people think about me - though I obviously don't want people thinking that I'm irresponsible, rude, dangerous, etc. I don't chase to get recognition or any thing like that. I chase because I like storms.

TWC and a few high profile names tossed chasers in the mud in May, but none of my friends, family, or coworkers had heard anything about this supposed drama. The locals that occasionally wander over at gas stations when we're filling up are still eager to talk to me and have been very friendly.

If someone wants to approach me and say "I don't like chasers because of 5/10 and 5/19 and what my TV told me", that's fine I guess. My response would be that every community has problems and that I am doing my best to be a good representative of my community. I can't change anyone else's behavior.

 

[Jesse Risley]

The thing I strongly disagree with is this idea that there is a widespread commonly held public opinion of chasers. Number one the vast majority of people in the plains love chasers. They understand what we do, they respect what we do and they are very interested in what we do. They don't think we're yahoos and they don't think we are endangering anybody. I have seen several videos of people from Greensburg and Picher who lost their homes being asked what they thought about the chasers. They all had nothing but good things to say. They appreciate what we do.
I think what a lot of people loose site of is that outside of our little chaser community, NOBODY CARES about things like this.

You're probably right in that public opinion is either indifferent or mixed about chasers; I doubt a widespread collective opinion exists either way. Most people outside of the immediate chasing community could probably care less about the entire topic.

However, what I do not want to see is a widespread backlash from law enforcement. In my mind preventing such a backlash from the public safety community is more important than worrying about what John Doe thinks of storm chasing, for the simple reason being that I would prefer not to be on the receiving end of blatant harassment or seemingly captious (e.g., traveling a few miles over the speed limit) or otherwise "cooked-up" traffic citations only because I am a storm chaser and my presence is unwanted.

 

[Adam Lucio]

I care what other people think. I talk to LEO's probably 75% of the time I go out, and have yet to have a bad experience. "Oh... your a chaser... well cool" But then I sometimes say... "Oh not really, I just like photographing storms" I doubt I'll refer to myself as a chaser when in the presence of Law enforcement from now on. We can say goodbye to the "warnings". If the perception of character continues downhill... then yeah I care.... we should all care.

For some reason I just don't. I have yet to have a bad experience with an LEO but then again Ive only been on the plains for 5 years. On May 10th an LEO actually came up to us unsure about whether to give the go ahead and sound the sirens...we told him he should and he did. 5 minutes later we filmed a tornado at that same location albeit a very brief one. He was very thankful for us being there to offer him that advice.

If you yourself are doing the right thing, people will recognize you for it. Chasing has always had that stereotype of craziness and the movie Twister references. People have been making those "oh you must have a death wish" or "so u wanna be like the movie twister?" comments to me for 10 years now...its no different now than it was back then.

Peoples general opinion has always been the same. Its up to you to change a persons perspective about you as an individual. I could care less what the community is thought of...some might have a negative opinion at first but once they talk to me I often shed a new light on them and their view is changed for the better.

 

[Josh Murfield]

I want to chime in and disagree with some of what you are saying. First of all, there are plenty of us who live on the plains, do we really not have the right to go out and drive 10 miles to chase a local storm just because we aren't experienced enough to make our own forecasts the old fashioned way? Absolutely not.
I lived in Nebraska until this last winter- was a newbie chaser who only was able to get out maybe 2 or 3 times per year, so each chase was a learning experience utilizing the mobile information I had available. However I NEVER followed other more experienced chasers, never got in anybody's way, and certainly never did anything to endanger anyone else or to damage anyone's property. I knew enough to understand where to be and when I was in danger, so the safety thing is a ridiculous point, again just because I couldn't whip out the old school maps and make my own forecasts.

I guess I just want to speak for all of those chasers who are not seasoned veterans, especially those who live on the plains, to say there is nothing wrong with going out chasing, especially in your own familiar back yard. The biggest things to keep in mind are respect for others, respect for mother nature, and of course common sense.

 

[jshields]

yeah bc telling people they can't drive out and look at a storm, will help the public's perception of storm chasers. actually telling amateurs or non "old-school" weather forecasters that they can't come out and drive down a public highway to look at something amazing mother nature is doing is crazy! like it was stated before most of "these people" probably aren't on stormtrack so we'd have to have some other way to get the word out that your kind are not welcome on the plains, like having to go to the media. then on storm chase days, there would have to be someone stopping cars on the road and having the ppl in the car point out where the dry line and warm front are on a surface map in order to keep driving

seriously though, i get where you're trying to go with your original post, but my problem was your statement trying to tell people that they shouldn't be out chasing period, unless you're experienced. the issues with safety right now aren't with experience its with numbers. you talk constantly in your post about what the public thinks about storm chasers, and you make it sound like it's only these non experienced chasers that are the ones driving like idiots. i'm pretty sure that in all the videos posted about the bad driving on 5/10, a majority of them were experienced chasers. also, how many experienced chasers here have been stuck in the mud as a tornado was bearing down on them?(besides south dakota) again this has nothing to do with being able to chase old school without data. this technology is saving lives everyday. i don't think by "banning" people with less experience from chasing is going to solve any of the problems. it's up to everyone to think about their safety and everyone else on the road. in anything in life there is always going to be a few that ruin it for the rest of us. i don't take it personally what the media or public thinks, bc i know i'm responsible for myself and my actions only, so if i acted right than i'm happy chasing. but to try and tell some "kid" that has a passion for weather but doesn't quite know everything yet, and relies on his laptop to get him to a storm and away from a storm, that he's not welcome out on the plains, is just wrong and isn't going to solve anything.

 

[Steve Dedman]

I just have a couple of thoughts.

I don't get to chase. We have maybe 1 tornado a year here in the Smokies, and you couldn't pay me any amount to chase on these crazy roads with less than a half mile of viz due to trees and mountains. Think NW AR on steroids.

My family still lives in OKC, and if by some twist of fate there was an opportunity to check out a storm while I was visiting, I'd probably do it - from a good distance. I'm not nearly experienced enough to get close. I know what storms look like and mostly the mechanics. But I'm not a meteorologist, never will be. I AM fascinated by the storms that kept me awake at night as a child and scared me to death. I've seen a few tornadoes, just out of circumstance (luck). If I got a chance to see one on purpose, I'd do it.

The OPs stance about "old skool" chasing does have a point, I think. Technology fails. There's a reason that the Vortex2 people have a sat-fed radar rig. It's more reliable than G3 or G4 cell technology or Wi-Fi or Aircard. GPS and maps can be wrong. I think what he's getting at is that if you're caught in the wrong location and your technology fails, you better have the knowledge to get your butt out of there. That's why I won't get too close; I don't know nearly as much as I'd like to if I were going to get close.

The question some chasers have to ask themselves is: "Is getting really close-up video of this storm worth a vehicular homicide charge?" That's the situation that will open the floodgates of LEO animosity. Is it worth the pain and suffering you will leave behind for your loved ones if you get yourself killed? People talk about promoting tornado safety...the only person a dead chaser helps is the mortician. Is it worth the financial and emotional cost your will bear if you put a family's bread-winner in a wheelchair for the rest of their life? There will be other storms, other tornadoes. They've been happening for eons, and will continue long after us puny little humans have gone the way of the dodo.

Actions have consequences. It happens every day - in the heat of the moment, someone loses sight of the consequences of their actions, and they wind up losing everything.