This up close stuff is getting out of hand

[Jacob Ferden]

In most states if you get a ticket for speeding in a work zone the fine is at least double if not more. It wouldn't surprise me to see something similar applied to storm chasers at some point in the future. If you are caught speeding or driving in a reckless manner while storm chasing you would receive a hefty fine or possibly lose your drivers license.

That would never happen. Whether or not someone was chasing would be up to the view of the LEOs, and those types of situations were deemed unconstitutional long ago. Work zones are different, they are announced with signs and are laid out well in advance. You would never see fines issued be based on such a fluid situation.

 

[Karla Dorman]

Non chaser. No car, for one thing. However, if I did have a car, I would pray I was close enough to record the event, but not so close as to BECOME the event. Some take too great of chances ... not me. Would much rather have an out than be struck out. Know what I mean?

 

[Stuart Robinson]

I must be missing something here?

Just what Is? the fascination with selling video – Sure I can imagine that it funds a few tanks of gas. Perhaps it is because I don’t sell my video – I just show it to my family and friends so that they can understand my passion with severe weather.

What’s the going rate?

 

[Kevin Walters]

Never say never. In most cases is is fairly obvious if a person is chasing storms. I had a member of the law enforcement community in Cherokee county Iowa tell me "chasing will be regulated in the future". Maybe that was just his opinion, or maybe he knows something.

 

[Steve Miller]

I think I will go with the adage "to each their own" on this topic when it comes to individual decisions chasers make. My concern is primarily for the people around those who make these decisions, be it the non-suspecting driver sharing the road with chasers to the guy sitting beside you in the car navigating for you.
Perhaps I am a little too business oriented here but I see a ton of personal liability on the line in storm chasing.

The first thing we do when planning an event is call a buddy and get him or her onboard for the long drive to a target. Then we might load in another buddy or two... As the driver of a vehicle with the perceived notion by your passengers that you have their best interests in mind while chasing, you are highly liable for your actions and potential adverse decisions or even accidental encounters.

I'm not sure which tour company it was that got very close yesterday but one did. Do you think those "tourists" had a helluva ride and their monies-worth? You betcha. If that tornado had appeared 100 yards sooner do you think the result would be the same? No. Someone would be having the pants sued off them and every other tour operator would certainly lose their insurance as a consequence. This is a good example of one incident changing the face of storm chasing from a casualty/injury and a business standpoint. (As a disclaimer, I LOVE the chase tour business model; please do not take my comments/observations out of context).

Camero Dude... This guy is personally videoing his lawsuit evidence should he have hit and injured anyone. Why do this? I will note that this is a primary reason ChaserTV does not keep archived copies live feeds. Liabilities aren't pretty and they are everywhere.

David Drummond is the only (private) chaser I know who has his ride-alongs sign a waiver releasing him from liability. This is very smart considering the consequences should something go wrong and the many opportunities there are for all of us out there in our hobby to suffer these consequences. I will probably have one created soon too.

As for getting close or not getting close, I share the opinion of some in this thread that it's dependent upon the storm type, speed, etc. I have a zoom lens on my camera and I'm not afraid to use it if I feel a situation is too dangerous.

 

[scott r currens]

People die all the time from other extreme sports. I don't see storm chasing as any different. If someone dies in Nascar, skydiving, kayaking, extreme surfing, mountain biking, moto-cross or any other sport they have not been shut down or regulated or cries from the public about when's it all going to end.

I do see your point but none of those activities occur on public streets. We chase on public roadways through towns and cities. When we mess up it can impact non-chasers. I'm not Chicken Little screeming that the sky is falling but I know one thing. The more we as a group are seen as reckless or lawless thrill seekers the more problems we will have with law enforcement, media and the public.

 

[Derek Weston]

Tornadoes are exciting to see and that's why a lot of people chase.

Their call.

Meh.

Personally... I'd like to get close a time or two here in situations where I know I'm say. Otherwise. . . quite content taking in the storm from a bit of a distance. I like being able to take in structure -- always disappointed when I see a shot of the tornado and can't put it into perspective with the parent storm.

But, I don't get bent out of shape over any of this. It's a personal thing, you know? Unless somebody is interfering with me.

Yeah, one of these days somebody is going to get too close and is going to pay dearly, I'd think. (though this is relatively hard to do) Up to them, though.

 

[Melissa Jablonski]

I prefer about five miles away. I have had to punch a couple cores in my time. Sometimes it is the only real option. Most of the time I like to stay about 5 miles away. I sketch and later paint the storms so I want the storm structure.
Melissa

 

[Dennis Sherrod]

I think I will go with the adage "to each their own" on this topic when it comes to individual decisions chasers make. My concern is primarily for the people around those who make these decisions, be it the non-suspecting driver sharing the road with chasers to the guy sitting beside you in the car navigating for you.
Perhaps I am a little too business oriented here but I see a ton of personal liability on the line in storm chasing.

The first thing we do when planning an event is call a buddy and get him or her onboard for the long drive to a target. Then we might load in another buddy or two... As the driver of a vehicle with the perceived notion by your passengers that you have their best interests in mind while chasing, you are highly liable for your actions and potential adverse decisions or even accidental encounters.
.........................

Along these same lines, I have to wonder if videoing an event and sharing it will be viewed in the same light if people post here or elsewhere how they go about setting up events.
If people post their guidelines, rules, methods, etc of how they do things and then something goes wrong, does this not open up a liability issue also by already having these stated in writing that can be gone back and used for or against them? This is especially true if you vary your stated, written methods even slightly of doing something and then it can be used against them.
Nothing against you Steve or how you do business, but this just seems to me to be a major liability issue also by stating how you will do something and if it goes wrong or you change your rules, someone may not know it except for what they read here.

 

[mikedeason]

I don't think chasing should be shut down or regulated, but it's a bit sad to watch it devolve into just another extreme sport.

"One of my long standing concerns has been that storm-chasers may eventually draw too much publicity, and chasing will become another mass cult of the leisure class, much as scuba-diving or hang-gliding."

David Hoadley, first issue of the real Stormtrack.

 

[David Reimer]

After reading through this thread, watching the video of the novice chaser going over 100 MPH, and contemplating on my response for a few hours. After reflecting, I believe that while chasers are capable of making the decisions required and are able to get close relatively safely, one group are not, and that is the public. With more and more of these accidental hits by tornadoes surfacing and each time being headlined on major news networks, were going to have more and more problems with members of the general public who just want to see a tornado and dont know crap about meteorology or basic common sense on what is too close begin chasing, believing that they can just drive up to a tornado, get some great video and maybe get on CNN.

As shown by the video with member of the public chasing the tornado, moving at speeds at least two times the legal speed limit on a two-lane road with numerous other cars in his path, I believe we (The Chaser Community) are going to have to at least start adding warning's to our videos, although that really would not do anything. I guess we will see what happens, as I'm sure this video is only the beginning of the waves of novice members of the public heading out with only a video camera and a cell phone. This influx of new "chasers," if they can even be called that. They have no education or experience and that video shows it.

David Reimer
www.texasstormchasers.com

 

[Jane Herbert]

After seeing all of the close calls yesterday in MO, and not just from yahoos like that local Camaro jockey, I am fed up with "let's get as close as humanly possible to the rain-wrapped tornado" or "let's chase this cell until 2AM so we might get a glimpse of a tornado for 1 second in the lightning" or let's core punch this storm with 80 VIL and have our vehicle totaled" etc etc etc.
What ever happened to prudence in storm chasing? It is NOT a competition, or at least is should not be one. But the combination of readily available internet connections in the vehicle and the ability to show the world your "catch" on YouTube or CNN or TWC is fueling this mania that IS going to get someone killed. So I say- step back, take a deep breath, and re-examine why you are out there chasing in the first place. Is it worth risking your life and possibly others?- no. But that is what a lot of us are doing and we need to stop it. I for one will usually be back 5-10 miles from the storm, getting my structure shots and parhaps missing the tornado. Does that mean I will never get up close to a tornado? No, I will attempt that in certain circumstances where I am reasonably sure that I can do so safely. If the storm is even vaguely HP, forget it.
A caveat to this rant- I am not really directing this at any particular individuals, and I do realize that in some cases a road closure or other circumstances may result in unintentionally getting closer than intended. However, the radical upturn in close calls the last few years is no accident, there is no doubt in my mind that some are taking unecessary chances and this will have bad consequences, mark my words.

Flame me if you wish, but I am firm in this opinion.

Matt Crowther

Hi Matt,

I totally agree with your sentiment in respect to 'gung-ho' chasers...personally I don't regard individuals doing what we have just seen on YouTube as genuine chasers sincerely interested in the study of structure and the components that put these storms together. It may be time perhaps to consider a registry of storm chasers - I'm from Australia and presently over here in the USA with a colleague chasing and studying your magnificnet storms.

On a very much smaller scale in Australia, we have formed the Australian Severe Weather Association with registered members, a number of whom chase regularly in America. I would presume that genuine chasers in America have a devoted interest not only in storm study, but also in safety aspects as we do in Australia - I'm not sure how a registry of stormchasers in America in general would be received by the far larger number of weather enthusiasts in USA compared to Australia. The point I am making is that with a registry of genuine storm chasers/weather enthusiasts, abiding by set down criteria of safety and ethical behaviour, there would be a public separation from the poor behaviour of radical, silly psuedo storm chasers who bring disrepute upon the stormchasing fraternity......in other words, they would not be part of a registry.

Best regards,

Clyve Herbert
President - Australian Severe Weather Association (ASWA)

 

[Mark Blue]

I was somewhat surprised to read all the rants about the video from yesterday in Kirksville, MO. I saw the video first thing this morning on the Weather Channel and heard Jim Cantore interview "Tornado Tim" several times. From what the man said, it sounded to me like he got too close by accident, saying he came up over a hill trying to maneuver and all of a sudden it was on top of him in a hilly and tree lined area. It really never struck me the way it has some who seem to have their shorts in a wad over what happened. I seriously doubt that laws could be passed making storm chasing illegal. The fact that we live in a free country and people can do whatever trips their trigger is why so many people from other countries move here. It's the best place in the world to live!

 

[Chris Novy]

But whats Ironic is if chasers stop after dark who reports to the nws or law enforcement of a dangerous sitituation heading towards a town of asleep people?? That 1 second lighting flash in lone grove gave us the view of a violent tonado heading towards town. Just saying ....

Mike:

This isn't necessarily directed at you. It's just that your post stuck a chord with me.

Who reports when the chasers aren't out there? The same folks that have always done the majority of reporting --spotters. There's a big difference between sitting in a field near your home and safely watching approaching nocturnal storms and chasing them down slick, unfamiliar, roads under conditions of poor visibility. There's a big difference between watching storms to protect your family and friends and chasing after them in hopes of getting a flash frame of video --ensuring another media appearance. While some chasers do contribute to the warning process let's not delude ourselves into believing we're all public service-minded individuals out there to serve our fellow man.

Perhaps I'm just an old fart. I've been chasing for something like 25 years now. While I enjoy storms I also value my life and have no desire to promote myself and no need to prove myself to others or associate myself with the "chasing greats". It's just me and the storms. So do I get close? Sure, if I'm lucky enough to be in position and can get there without endangering others. If there are storms close to my home I'll run out and have a look. On occasion I'll ride along with other chasers and share the experience. That said, I pick and choose my chase days.

There are some chasers, however, who obsess over the thought of missing out on a storm that others caught. I've been watching SpotterNetwork a lot lately and have seen quite a few chasers depart their home base, drive across two or three states on a meteorologically questionable day, only to see nothing and return home and to learn there was a great supercell just 20 miles from their house. Sure, we all make forecasting mistakes but it's the OCD-like behavior that's driving many of the newer folks to go after literally anything that moves --day or night. The promise of fame and fortune only fuels this compulsion.

Sadly, for a new generation of storm chasers it's no longer about seeing storms. Rather it's about being seen by others --that there might happen to be storms in your video is just a coincidental benefit. With the advent of YouTube --creating an easy way to share video with little or no cost -- and now with at least three live streaming sites --allowing for instant gratification and a potentially lucrative media deal-- more and more people are chasing for what I consider the wrong reasons. It's like the loser generation who is more concerned with their Myspace or Facebook Internet persona or blog than with their real-world lives.

Storm chase risk-taking is like road rage. Drive like an A-hole and other drivers will get pissed off and in turn drive more aggressively themselves. This cumulative, slow-growing, effect can be seen in large cities where just about everyone adapts to the violent culture of driving. Nobody signals, everyone speeds, and nobody leaves a single gap between cars. With storm chasing aggressive behavior which results in "success" --video appearing on YouTube or resulting in a TV appearance-- simply reinforces bad behavior and encourages others to follow suit. Expect to see people getting ever closer to tornadoes, roads being clogged, and chasers measuring their intercept approach speeds in terms of EF numbers.

You know it was once cool to be a storm spotter. Not any more. It was once cool to be a storm chaser. Not any more. It was even once cool to be a tornado chaser. Not any more --everyone's doing that. Today it takes an "extreme" chaser to get people's attention --especially the media. It's not even about the tornado any more (no matter how close you get) but rather it's about the screaming, the panic, the praying to J that gets you noticed. Watch some of the streaming video. Picture-on-picture of the chaser and the storm. Look at the vehicles. Everyone wants their own TIV now. It's no longer cool to be a chaser. Today yuo need to be an "interceptor" if you want to get noticed.

I'm not knocking everyone here and I'm certainly not knocking technology. Rather, I'm lamenting the apparent end of an era where storm chasing was about experiencing storms (with or without a camera) and about comradery. Sadly it's becoming just another trash sport inherited by a "me me" generation who might be just as happy launching bottle rockets out their asses if it could get them the same attention.

OK, It's time for my Geritol and prune juice. Good night all.

If anyone has archived the Camaro video or knows of a link to it please PM me.

..Chris..

 

[Eric Treece]

Are we REALLY having this discussion...........AGAIN? We all know it is inevitable (someone killing themselves to get AWESOME footage) no matter how we try to voice our opinions of the matter. Now can we start a thread to clear up the great light bar controversy?