Silver Lining Tours vans rolled in Kansas

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To @Dan Robinson 's point about a nuanced point of view, and in the spirit of seeing both sides, I think it's helpful to keep in mind one of my favorite quotes, from author F. Scott Fitzgerald:

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

Perhaps some in this thread were miffed at Roger Hill's semi-derisive comment about the status of Stormtrack (I think I saw someone post a screenshot of it in the first few pages of this thread). He may have been playing around, but to assert that ST is some kind of "down and out" or "beyond its time" entity could certainly rub some of us the wrong way, especially given its recent upturn over the past 6-18 months.

Seeing that quote Jeff mentions only confirmed the impression I already had, that Roger Hill was somewhat of an elitist relative to the chaser community at large. Similar sentiments were expressed in the thread about Chasercon, i.e. that the conference organizers had separated themselves from the larger community. I admit this may not be a fair assessment, especially to Roger as an individual. I freely admit that part of it comes from a place of envy about the success and lifestyle Roger has created around chasing, and part of it comes more from a sense about veteran chasers in general, who as a group have collectively divorced themselves from the rest of us. When I say "veterans" I mean the prior generation, the pioneers... I have to remind myself that more years have gone by than I would like to admit, and I have become a "veteran" myself now, as have many of my contemporaries here on ST, notwithstanding the fact that many younger chasers with less total years of chasing actually have far more chase days and successes under their belts than my pathetic chase-vacationer resume ;))
 
Perhaps some in this thread were miffed at Roger Hill's semi-derisive comment about the status of Stormtrack (I think I saw someone post a screenshot of it in the first few pages of this thread). He may have been playing around, but to assert that ST is some kind of "down and out" or "beyond its time" entity could certainly rub some of us the wrong way, especially given its recent upturn over the past 6-18 months.

I saw that. I thought he was being totally honest. I haven't checked in for a couple years probably... really dont remeber the last time i posted. But i figured this place was about dead.
 
To @Dan Robinson 's point about a nuanced point of view, and in the spirit of seeing both sides, I think it's helpful to keep in mind one of my favorite quotes, from author F. Scott Fitzgerald:

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."



Seeing that quote Jeff mentions only confirmed the impression I already had, that Roger Hill was somewhat of an elitist relative to the chaser community at large. Similar sentiments were expressed in the thread about Chasercon, i.e. that the conference organizers had separated themselves from the larger community. I admit this may not be a fair assessment, especially to Roger as an individual. I freely admit that part of it comes from a place of envy about the success and lifestyle Roger has created around chasing, and part of it comes more from a sense about veteran chasers in general, who as a group have collectively divorced themselves from the rest of us. When I say "veterans" I mean the prior generation, the pioneers... I have to remind myself that more years have gone by than I would like to admit, and I have become a "veteran" myself now, as have many of my contemporaries here on ST, notwithstanding the fact that many younger chasers with less total years of chasing actually have far more chase days and successes under their belts than my pathetic chase-vacationer resume ;))

This is the EXACT reason I have stuck around ST. I've been very fortunate in my chasing pursuits and made a good living. It may be difficult to extract the self-promotion and outside PR forces sometimes when making a living, but I still consider myself an average Joe chaser and have tried to avoid the "I'm too good for ST" attitude.
 
One thing I haven't seen mentioned with Jon Davies doing the analysis is the possible conflict of interest since he's been associated with ChaserCon with his forecasting class. One could reasonably assume a tilt towards being generous in his conclusion, although I'm not saying this was the case. I think Roger could have presented a little more independent analysis to back his version of events.
 
This is the EXACT reason I have stuck around ST. I've been very fortunate in my chasing pursuits and made a good living. It may be difficult to extract the self-promotion and outside PR forces sometimes when making a living, but I still consider myself an average Joe chaser and have tried to avoid the "I'm too good for ST" attitude.

I've always appreciated your consistent presence on here Warren! I remember when I first chased with Marty Feely's tour group back in 1996, I met you on the road. You were the first "name" chaser I ever met; it was quite memorable, back in those days when there weren't too many chasers and no social media; any chaser that could be read about in a book or the print version of ST somehow had more "star power" to an impressionable newbie from the East Coast, compared to today's social media environment where anybody can put forth any version of reality they like. When years later I got involved in the online ST, I remember thinking "wow, Warren posts here." It was noteworthy because there were few if any others of your "generation" of chasers (even though we're about the same age) that do so.
 
I think the "Satellite tornado" explanation was BS and we smelled it from the beginning. Anything to claim it wasn't their fault. I don't have an agenda. I've clearly stated many times I take some pretty big risks that could ultimately cost me my life. It's different when you have paying customers with you though. Again, nobody goes on a tornado tour thinking they're going to die or be horribly injured and that's what needs to be kept in mind.
 
I think the "Satellite tornado" explanation was BS and we smelled it from the beginning. Anything to claim it wasn't their fault. I don't have an agenda. I've clearly stated many times I take some pretty big risks that could ultimately cost me my life. It's different when you have paying customers with you though. Again, nobody goes on a tornado tour thinking they're going to die or be horribly injured and that's what needs to be kept in mind.

I'm starting a new thread re: Show us your satellite tornado images, or tornadoes that formed far from the main visible wall cloud. Might be good to see what some of these look like.
 
I hope to share a video analysis of this incident soon. Much of it may contradict statements from SLT staff, Jon Davies' analysis, and comments here. I have reached out to the Hills for help in the process, but have not received any. I have received much help from some of the impacted SLT guests and other chasers that were in the area. It appears the group traveled north into the storm's inflow notch, north of the bulk of the RFD core and (unknown) tornado path. They then turned around and went back south. They did not have time to clear the RFD core, but instead were almost immediately enveloped by it, and then impacted by a rain wrapped tornado less than two minutes later. The location of the tornado was characteristically typical of a large HP supercell. The tornado was long track and had been in progress for minutes and miles. The storm was well warned with ~20 minutes of lead time thanks to the velocity couplet, and visual recognition of its structure was apparent including the RFD precipitation core marking the storm's Bear's Cage, and inflow band extending to the north. The portion of the inflow band extending into the notch does not appear to be associated with the low level rotation of the primary mesocyclone, or the area from which the later EF4 would spawn. The EF4 appears to have spawned from behind the RFD gust front, in a similar position to the previous tornado relative to the parent structure, and again in a characteristic manner of HP supercells. The hazardous regions were visually recognizable and avoidable. I'm not going to make any accusations or speculate on the motive as to why such a course was taken. My hopes are that we can help avoid some future injuries and fatalities.

I'm sharing this here so that you can speak up and correct me if needed. This is your chance to do so before this video gets published. I'll likely share a draft with folks for critique too.

it just seems odd there are some who think there should be no risks when the subject is chasing tornadoes. I guess I'm more of the mindset that safety is not the thing that is most important to tour individuals.

I know many people injured and one person that died getting on a horse. But none of them stressed beforehand over falling off. Tornadoes are scary. Isn't that the big difference?

Granted, the history of storm chasing has a much better safety record than auto racing or mountain climbing, but similar dangers existed then, and they exist now. You're signing up to see a phenomena that kills multiple people every year.

... the expectation of absolute safety cannot be made in this case. While technology has made road cars, race cars, mountain climbing gear, and yes, storm chasing, safer, nothing is ever going to completely remove the risk associated. There will still be highway deaths, there will still be racing crashes, people will still be frozen into the side of Everest, and there will still be chasing incidents where people are injured or killed.

It's not about storm chasing being risky. It's that we have identified risks that are wholly unnecessary to accomplishing the goals of the activity, and identified ways to avoid the dangers associated with these risks. This was accomplished by sharing decades of knowledge obtained through trial and error, risky experimentation, and even scientific study. This is how everything in life works. It's why we let babies attempt to walk, knowing they will fall and hurt themselves many times in the process, AND YET we also put baby gates in front of the stairs. It's why you don't stand behind a horse. It's why we wear a helmet when horseback riding, racing cars, or rock climbing and yet these activities still result in fatalities. It's why we wear seat belts.

It's why we don't drive blind into the Bear's Cage of a tornado warned HP.

Not because this assures 100% safety in these activities. But because this prevents needless death and injury. Just because you haven't heeded these precautions dozens of times in the past and gotten away with it, does not mean these precautions do not prevent needless death and injury. As dangerous as some of these activities can be, they all have hard earned safety lessons and precautions that responsible people who engage in these activities follow.

It's just going to happen, no changing that.

Yes, it's going to happen again. Let's not let that dissuade us from promoting safe and responsible storm chasing practices, even if risks remain that injure people, even if people don't take these hard earned safety lessons to heart and are needlessly injured or killed as a result.

I have done the same maneuver with Roger a number of other times, and have done it on several other chases over the years.

Now, if it happens again....

This is it happening again. What we're finding out here is that there's a long history of this behavior. And by "this behavior" I mean taking an inexperienced group/caravan into the Bear's Cage of a tornado warned HP: Close calls, even from the same group (22 May 2011 Joplin, 4 June 2015 Simla); Minor incidents with other groups (Wakita, OK 10 May 2010, Beaver Crossing, NE 11 May 2014); Even catastrophic casualties that should have driven this home for everyone (31 May 2013 El Reno).


Can you point to me a source of information - a manual, guide, course, tutorial, textbook, lecture, science paper, article, blog post, web page - one widely recognized in storm chasing as authoritative and credible - that declares a general HP RFD transect as a 100% no-go scenario? Can you provide any evidence that the tour owner should have known this maneuver brought with it a high risk of what occurred?

In my perfect world waivers would cover almost impossible to detect tornadoes in what appears to be, from available radar data, surging rfd. But I don't live in a perfect world.

Tornadoes buried in the RFD gust front are rare, but do occur

2.) Strong tornadoes that have no discernable couplet on radar velocity imagery can exist within RFD.

You can come at me all you want about #2; say to me duh, you should already have known that. I wonder though if you knew that before this happened.

The above is what I find most baffling in all of this. The RFD core on an HP supercell is the Bear's Cage. That circular green region is the rain wrapping around the mesocyclone, forming the bars of the Bear's Cage. It is the ball at the end of the hook. It is the most likely place for a significant tornado. It is the most dangerous part of the storm. I can point you to dozens and dozens of photos and videos showing significant tornadoes buried in the RFD core of an HP supercell. There are indeed books, blog posts, websites, lectures, and even scientific publications (SLS '14 had an entire section devoted to El Reno) highlighting the dangers associated with the Bear's Cage region and HP supercells. We've known this for decades thanks to publications from folks like Doswell, Stormtrack, and even chase video from NSSL going back to the 70's and 80's. Roger's video and shots from other nearby chasers on the 28 May 2019 Lawrence storm clearly show textbook Bear's Cage structure on the RFD gust front of an HP supercell.

It may be as simple as a pattern of core punching the Bear's Cage until luck finally ran out. There *shouldn't be* any mystery to this. That there might be to some is astounding to me. It should be painfully obvious once one is presented with video of the approaching storm structure and the radar. That some who built storm chasing as we know it today might even try to undermine these safety lessons and undo what we've learned is disheartening.
 
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HP is a total mess, yes. It's kind of disheartening that they'd be punching through the cage itself, absolutely.

My point is more philosophical in nature, though. Sort of a point that the danger exists, and will always exist, when dealing with a natural entity that kills a number of people every year. Zoo tours have gotten a lot safer over the years, and of course, no one is saying to take the cage bars off the windows of the safari Jeeps, but it still seems that a small number of people manage to become meals every year at zoos.

Danger is danger. Mitigating the risk of incurring said danger's wrath is absolutely paramount. No argument here.
 
The RFD core on an HP supercell is the Bear's Cage. That circular green region is the rain wrapping around the mesocyclone, forming the bars of the Bear's Cage. It is the ball at the end of the hook. It is the most likely place for a significant tornado. It is the most dangerous part of the storm. I can point you to dozens and dozens of photos and videos showing significant tornadoes buried in the RFD core of an HP supercell. There are indeed books, blog posts, websites, lectures, and even scientific publications (SLS '14 had an entire section devoted to El Reno) highlighting the dangers associated with the Bear's Cage region and HP supercells. We've known this for decades thanks to publications from folks like Doswell, Stormtrack, and even chase video from NSSL going back to the 70's and 80's. Roger's video and shots from other nearby chasers on the 28 May 2019 Lawrence storm clearly show textbook Bear's Cage structure on the RFD gust front of an HP supercell.

This is true. I completely agree. I can see why you would be baffled if you think people are saying it's OK to cut through or across the actual bears cage. All my comments were as if I were in there looking at the bear then drop south through the rain and found another bear in the heavy rfd rain. There is misunderstanding here somewhere.
 
HP and a total mess for sure. I know a lot has been focused on velocity radar data, but as has been covered, they passed me going north at 5:58 p.m., which is the time of the radar image below with my location. Well within the depths of a rain-wrapped mess. It wasn't like they were threading the needle along the edge of the
"bear's cage," they were in the thick of it. The vans were going north (toward the path of a developing, large mesocyclone) and then they turned back south at 6:01 p.m., which should have obviously been a red flag given recent radar scans that a tornado was in progress and rapidly approaching. Especially since they went south at an intersection that had a clear eastbound escape route (contrary to their own "policy" on safety, below), which is what I took. Based on the data I have compiled, the vans probably flipped between 6:02 and 6:03 p.m.
radar02.png

I'm not sure if this has been updated, but either way SLT's own safety statement is, to put it mildly, contradictory to what happened here:
We will NEVER stop in close proximity to a tornado unless there is a clear and proper escape route. We do not take unneeded risks around a storm and view them from safe distances and safe vantage points.
Safety Info - Silver Lining Tours - Tornado & Storm Chasers

I posted a quick video on this topic with a more detailed account of what I experienced, as well as some other commentary below:
 
Quincy's shots have been really helpful. I've contrast enhanced and annotated them to the best of my abilities. Also included here is the storm relative velocity, both Quincy's position and SLT's as they passed him, and the tornado's position ~2.5 miles just a little south of due west. This is 5 minutes before impact.

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The structure here looks conventional and is well defined for an HP, and the tornado is pretty much right where you'd expect it to be. There's an extremely prominent couplet on SRV at this time, although it's much fainter in subsequent scans.

There's a couple points here I'd like to make and open up for debate before I publish this in a video:

1. The area to the north of the couplet is not the "larger mesocyclone" or "primary mesocyclone". The region indicates broad rotation over a large area. However, it also indicates convergence. Notice the line demarcating the inbounds and outbounds of the couplet is pointing right down the radial (at the radar). The demarcating line on what's being called the "larger/primary mesocyclone" runs at an angle. I believe you're really seeing an inflow surge in the notch, and an RFD surge behind the RFD gust front in this area to the north. This is the storm breathing before it spins up the EF4. The EF4 does not emerge from the center of this region, and it would be a mistake to assume it would.

2. Instead one should rely on the visuals provided by the storm's structure. A timelapsed and contrast enhanced version of Quincy's shot indicates the area to the west and southwest is rain wrapping around the RFD gust front, effectively the Bear's Cage (bounded in green), and that the area to the north is an inflow band (yellow arrow). These structural landmarks are readily apparent to chasers at these positions even without video enhancements. One can infer a horseshoe shaped updraft base, the northern or top end curling back into the RFD of the HP (orange line). This is the most likely location to find a significant tornado on a supercell, and indeed that's where the EF2 is. This was not an amorphous blob with tornadoes in random locations.

3. The EF4 emerged from basically the same part of the storm, slightly displaced to the north as the storm cycled with a hand-off in a fairly conventional manner. It did not emerge from the inflow band in the notch, north of the RFD core. Tornadoes are possible on the inflow band, and the next supercell cycle and tornado cyclone can develop well ahead of the old RFD core. But this doesn't appear to be the case on this storm, and the EF4 remained firmly behind a rain wrapped RFD gust front while the inflow band continued to extend to the northeast in a linear orientation.
 
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