Silver Lining Tours vans rolled in Kansas

[James Wilson]

I guess I'm more of the mindset that safety is not the thing that is most important to tour individuals. It is experiencing life, living big, doing something different, something exciting, and yes... dangerous. I can't expect myself or anyone else I put my trust in to be on top of every bad scenario.

 

[Dan Robinson]

There is also a pretty big disconnect from some here in this discussion, essentially saying that anyone who tries to bring nuance, evidence and reason against the pitchforks "doesn't care that people got hurt" and "it's ok if people die in the future". That's an egregious mischaracterization of what's being said, and you all know it. It's like we can't discuss all aspects without someone rushing to the worst possible interpretation of a post and branding them as someone without humanity. It's how our entire discourse is going on in this country over every other issue, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[Brett Roberts]

There is also a pretty big disconnect from some here in this discussion, essentially saying that anyone who tries to bring nuance, evidence and reason against the pitchforks "doesn't care that people got hurt" and "it's ok if people die in the future". That's an egregious mischaracterization of what's being said, and you all know it. It's like we can't discuss all aspects without someone rushing to the worst possible interpretation of a post and branding them as someone without humanity. It's how our entire discourse is going on in this country over every other issue, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

Another staple of any controversy in the social media era, this included, is the compulsion many have to stake out a strong position that tends toward a binary view of the issue. Sometimes, you have a legitimate reason to feel strongly about something when factoring in the evidence and your personal experience. Other times, though, I suspect the hot takes and snarky one-liners are driven largely by attention seeking and/or social positioning (i.e., signaling loyalty to your tribe of choice as relates to the controversy).

I've followed this incident with some interest since it happened, but I can't honestly say I have a strong inclination either to condemn or defend any involved party without major caveats. It's a mess. It's clear from the video that SLT messed up badly, but how many of us who chase regularly can say it's inconceivable that we might make the same mistake, especially if we chased 80 days a year? The fact that it was a paid tour service does fundamentally change the context, compared to someone like me making that mistake while driving solo. But again, nuance: presuming any of us were dropped into the position of leading these high-dollar tours with desperate customers, are we so sure we'd balance safety and chase success in the optimal range without ever leaning too far toward the latter? If anything, this fiasco just reaffirms something I've thought for over a decade: running a chase tour is a lot less enviable than it might seem from the outside, and there's probably nothing you could pay me to take on that burden myself. There are so many pitfalls and built-in disadvantages (e.g., think about the huge latency of getting everyone back into the van and situated at *every* stop in a high-stress, risky situation around a storm) that it's almost surprising this was the first incident of its type. Hopefully, my general skepticism of chase tours as an enterprise doesn't fall into the obnoxious hot take bin I just described, although perhaps it does.

To clarify a bit: I don't hold it against anyone reasonably qualified who chooses to own or run a tour service; I understand the allure; and I understand there are hundreds of happy customers who have found a lot of value in their tour experience. I guess I just place more of my concern about this incident on the background conditions (specifically, a convoy of big tour vans filled with generally clueless clients racing around underneath tornadic storms) than the particulars of what transpired May 28. For the record, I don't think tours should be outlawed or regulated out of existence or anything like that, but I do think this is a prescient reminder to the entire community and future tour customers of how precarious their situation actually is (barring a fundamental change that strictly adheres to the "stay back for structure" approach, anyway).

 

[Warren Faidley]

History has shown that accidents, injuries and deaths within a tour industry only increases exposure and clients. Again, the Everest tour situation is the best example. Despite horrible deaths caused by HAPE and avalanches with a 6.5% death rate, tours are booked solid every year. There is a human desire to experience the "extreme" at any cost, partially because a lot of people think it will never happen to me because I'm smarter or stronger. If you start running tours where passengers are 10 miles from the action, they are going to be upset. Tourists have no choice but to understand and accept the risks cannot be removed from the adventure without diluting the excitement they are seeking.

 

[Ben Holcomb]

Oh you definitely couldn't pay me enough to run or even drive for a tour. I can't imagine dealing with a van full of different personalities and different upbringings, etc. Especially consider that there are a good number of foreign tour guests, and catering to them while trying to chase storms sounds like a nightmare.

The bottom line is that nobody truly signs up for a chase tour expecting to die. It's the same with getting on a roller coaster or even an airplane. Safety should absolutely be the #1 thought when you have paying guests who don't know any better. That's a lot different than me in my car with other chaser types or even by myself.

 

[Warren Faidley]

I generally take one or two people a year. I use to take anyone, but now I require some form of past adventure experience. I don't need to take people along to pay for the bills, but I like to offer a select few the opportunity of a lifetime and I enjoy their company for the most part. The majority of the people who chase with me don't want a van experience for multiple reasons and they don't mind paying more for a private chase. Ironically, the two people who chased with me this year, were originally considering the same tour and dates that experienced the accident.

 

[Joshua Nall]

My main issue is with comments insinuating some sort of recklessness. I don't remember many specifics but there was a vehicle with chasers rolled over, seems like it was a small SUV, and it seems like it was in a TX panhandle town... this would probably have been in the 90's. Anyone remember who that was? I can't remember names, but I remember them discussing in blog posts, seeming to be unsure how it happened. But what I do remember, and why I bring it up, is the reaction to that was mostly "if you are going to get on a horse, you can expect to get bucked off". At least thats the way I remember it. I suppose things have changed since then. I mean today we have people taking flack for getting their windows busted by outflow winds. I can't understand that at all. We are out there to experience storms. Tour guests are to a d everything can not be micro managed. I'm open to understanding how others feel but it's hard for me personally, to not look at it realistically comparing it to common activities. And maybe the reason for that is chasing won't be as much fun if I'm always stressed about what 'might' happen... what is actually a very low risk of happening even in a lifetime of chasing if I'm reasonably cautious. I know many people injured and one person that died getting on a horse. But none of them stressed beforehand over falling off. Tornadoes are scary. Isn't that the big difference?

I admire those willing to lead people in life changing experiences and activities, and have made a business out of it, regardless of what activity. Surely everyone understands there are risks especially with being in near storm environment. In my perfect world waivers would cover almost impossible to detect tornadoes in what appears to be, from available radar data, surging rfd. But I don't live in a perfect world.

 

[Shane Adams]

There is also a pretty big disconnect from some here in this discussion, essentially saying that anyone who tries to bring nuance, evidence and reason against the pitchforks "doesn't care that people got hurt" and "it's ok if people die in the future". That's an egregious mischaracterization of what's being said, and you all know it. It's like we can't discuss all aspects without someone rushing to the worst possible interpretation of a post and branding them as someone without humanity. It's how our entire discourse is going on in this country over every other issue, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

It sounds like you're either criticizing any opinion that differs from your own, or insisting there can only be one possible opinion. I made it clear what my particular beef was and why, and because that opinion is based on facts, it's pretty tough to criticize. Now, if I'm misunderstanding your comments and am way off base (wouldn't shock me), I'm happy to hear you explain it to me.

 

[Sean Ramsey]

I still think the outcome of this will be "What can be done better?" and changes will be made appropriately. I don't think anyone believes that tour groups will go away or be regulated after an isolated incident like this. Regardless of if it was accidental, poor judgement or taking on too much risk I do believe it serves a purpose for not only SLT but other tour groups to learn from this and make changes as needed. Luckily, there wasn't anything major from an injury standpoint (from what I understand) and they get a chance to make corrections for future business which benefits everyone, including the rest of us who share the road with them.

Now, if it happens again....

 

[B. Dean Berry]

One of the things that sort of gets forgotten is the consideration given toward the activity of storm chasing itself. Remember back when it was compared to auto racing or mountain climbing? Granted, the history of storm chasing has a much better safety record than auto racing or mountain climbing, but similar dangers existed then, and they exist now. You're signing up to see a phenomena that kills multiple people every year. It's not in the realm of the unthinkable that something like this can happen.

Not defending or targeting this incident, or Roger/SLT, in any way, but the expectation of absolute safety cannot be made in this case. While technology has made road cars, race cars, mountain climbing gear, and yes, storm chasing, safer, nothing is ever going to completely remove the risk associated. There will still be highway deaths, there will still be racing crashes, people will still be frozen into the side of Everest, and there will still be chasing incidents where people are injured or killed. To use Ben's examples of roller coasters and airplanes - there are still roller coaster fatalities and injuries, every year, and airplanes still occasionally fall out of the sky. A certain number of people are killed by their bathtub every year.

It's just going to happen, no changing that.

 

[Jeff Duda]

Perhaps some in this thread were miffed at Roger Hill's semi-derisive comment about the status of Stormtrack (I think I saw someone post a screenshot of it in the first few pages of this thread). He may have been playing around, but to assert that ST is some kind of "down and out" or "beyond its time" entity could certainly rub some of us the wrong way, especially given its recent upturn over the past 6-18 months.

 

[Jeff Duda]

Now, if it happens again....

The better way to end this is, "when it happens next time..." (i.e., will it have been long enough by the next time it happens that we, as a community, will have decided this rate of accidents is acceptible, and thus not make a bigger deal out fo this?)

 

[Dan Robinson]

Shane, that wasn't directed at you. Look at Jon Davies and my analyses on the issue and the response to it. We're trying to figure out what happened in part to learn from it and to determine what level of reasonable blame, if any, should be leveled at SLT. I have clearly refrained from ultimately taking one side or the other. I have, however, been vocal against the pitchfork mob element to this saga that, among other things, trashes Davies and me for our effort to even investigate the incident. Anything short of a burning-at-the-stake of SLT is characterized by some as complicity in a future tragedy.

 

[B. Dean Berry]

Perhaps some in this thread were miffed at Roger Hill's semi-derisive comment about the status of Stormtrack (I think I saw someone post a screenshot of it in the first few pages of this thread). He may have been playing around, but to assert that ST is some kind of "down and out" or "beyond its time" entity could certainly rub some of us the wrong way, especially given its recent upturn over the past 6-18 months.

To be fair, that's the type of thing that's to be expected from people who never come here.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I will say this, I've learned two important things from this:

1.) I will never operate a chase tour.

2.) Strong tornadoes that have no discernable couplet on radar velocity imagery can exist within RFD.

You can come at me all you want about #2; say to me duh, you should already have known that. I wonder though if you knew that before this happened.