Should Chasers Report, and If So - How?

[cedwards]

I figure it is warned for, that is all the public needs. I have a very hard time thinking of any tornado I've seen that didn't already have a tornado warning on it.

Maybe that is all the PUBLIC needs, but maybe the case is that the storm is showing signs of weakening. The warning is about to expire. TWS doesn't know for sure there is a tornado out there. They may need your report to extend the warning. Or maybe even to warn the next county over.

As for Mr. Ketcham, If chasers call in accurate reports and give them detailed information, maybe we can change his attitude towards chasers.

 

[Dick McGowan]

Or...we could just not report at all. If Mr. Ketcham wants to make a publicized statement about storm chasers like that, then perhaps we shouldn't. A statement like that leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. After all, aren't we trying to get away from that image (like many of you have stated in other threads) that Mr. Ketcham has publically displayed? The way I see it, there are not only spotters out there that can do the job, but about 1,000,000 other storm chasers too.

 

[Mike Peregrine]

If chasers call in accurate reports and give them detailed information, maybe we can change his attitude towards chasers.

I have really, honestly wanted to believe this for a long time. If anyone can point to some reason to believe it's improving at all, I'd be interested in hearing it. As it is, I work full time, do not chase for profit in any way anymore, and would like to think that there's a benefit to someone in all this. It's terrific when chasers have time to devote to cultivating better relationships out there, But how many are genuinely in a position to do this?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in this for reasons other than loving it ... but it would just mean more to me personally if I could do it without the constant attacks from people like this.

 

[Jeff Miller]

*rant* I got it. Let's all have a chaser convergence and meet up at once at the local skywarn training class. Then we shall get our number and be listened to when we call into the NWS as "trained spotters" - because no one wants to listen to experienced, trained, and knowledgable CHASERS who have devoted years upon years to the study of severe weather.

Cannot understand why in the world they take the reports of someone who invests 2 hrs a year in severe weather training over people who devote whole seasons to the subject. Oh yes, the yahoos who ruin the rap for all of us. *end rant*

 

[Dan Robinson]

As most of us are, I'm disappointed in the public comments made generalizing chasers not only by this recent quote, but by other sources in the past as well (remember the Wichita Eagle article in 2004). This type of irresponsible commentary is unprofessional and borderline slanderous. In the end it is my reputation (and that of every one of us) that takes the unfair hit. At this point I'm really not sure what can be done to reverse such impudent ignorance. Unfortunately a few tragic high-casualty tornado incidents directly resultant from the ignoring of critical chaser-relayed information will be what it takes to prove the fallacy of this type of attitude.

 

[Mike Peregrine]

By the way ... I just realized that his statement was published in Lawrence. Remember how I mentioned how great it was to see chasers and spotters working together over there in Douglas Co.? Sorry fellas, but his statement has pretty much totally undermined what progress you've worked so hard to make.

 

[David Drummond]

Just to offer a contrast and show now all WCMs feel that way, here is a little quote from a season summary paper by the WCM LBB Brian LaMarre:

The life-saving warnings and related information issued by the National Weather Service is part of an extensive integrated warning system. This system is successful through local relationships with our emergency response community, media broadcasters, trained SkyWarn spotters, general public observers, the West Texas Mesonet Group of Texas Tech University, and the many amateur radio operators and energetic storm chasers who provide critical ground-truth information. It is an extensive network in place for the sole purpose of protecting life and property.

 

[Jason Tunzer]

*rant* I got it. Let's all have a chaser convergence and meet up at once at the local skywarn training class. Then we shall get our number and be listened to when we call into the NWS as "trained spotters" - because no one wants to listen to experienced, trained, and knowledgable CHASERS who have devoted years upon years to the study of severe weather.

Cannot understand why in the world they take the reports of someone who invests 2 hrs a year in severe weather training over people who devote whole seasons to the subject. Oh yes, the yahoos who ruin the rap for all of us. *end rant*

Ya know with an attitude like that,no wonder they won't take you seriously.So let me get this straight,just because most chasers can make an educated guess about where severe weather might occur,makes them better that a spotter?Thats BS.So even though I've been spotting for 7 years and have to take my 2 hours NWS training class i'm not as good as someone who has "devoted years upon years to the study of severe weather"?Come on my net and i'd tell ya to piss off too.You think that spotters don't want to study severe weather?We wouldn't want to be spotters if we didn't love and want to learn more about weather.Well i guess that since the NWS won't take chasers seriously the chasers don't have to take the spotter seriously.Get over it,take a minute,and call it in to either a TV station,911 or NWS.It's all about saving lives,i know i'd want everyone on this board to call something in if were over my town and i would do the same for them.

 

[Dal Archer]

To be honest, I am a little baffled by Mr. Ketchum's comments. I have attended some of these spotter training sessions and I am amazed (and a little concerned) at how little the spotters really know.

Conversely I am sincerely amazed at the depth of knowledge that is displayed by the regular members of Stormtrack (most of whom are obviously serious chasers).

I will be the first to admit that there are obviously some people out there who have no business being out there. However, it seems to me that most of these people are locals who are within 50 miles of a warned storm and decide to go out and chase the "nader". In my opinion either Mr. Ketchum is either mistaking this latter group as "chasers" or he is vastly overestimating the skill sets of the average spotter (and the content of the average storm spotting seminar).

There is definitely no comparison between the two groups. In my experience the spotters that I have been around are well meaning individuals who have very little meterological knowledge, while most serious chasers that I am familiar with are incredibly knowledgeable. Unfortunately, comments like the one made by Mr. Ketchum are in my mind ignorant at best and are also placing us in an increasing negative light.

As far as actually calling in reports, I do feel that when in doubt we need to call it in. Remember that the NWS is totally reliant on our reports (whether Mr. Ketchum will admit it or not) when it comes to ground truth information. Now obviously if we have major chaser convergence going on (Harper County KS - Memorial Day Weekend 2004 comes to mind) it may not be necessary to report in, but in my opinion most of the time it is better to offer too much information rather than withholding information that could save a life.

 

[Jeff Miller]

Ya know with an attitude like that,no wonder they won't take you seriously.So let me get this straight,just because most chasers can make an educated guess about where severe weather might occur,makes them better that a spotter?Thats BS.So even though I've been spotting for 7 years and have to take my 2 hours NWS training class i'm not as good as someone who has "devoted years upon years to the study of severe weather"?Come on my net and i'd tell ya to piss off too.You think that spotters don't want to study severe weather?We wouldn't want to be spotters if we didn't love and want to learn more about weather.Well i guess that since the NWS won't take chasers seriously the chasers don't have to take the spotter seriously.Get over it,take a minute,and call it in to either a TV station,911 or NWS.It's all about saving lives,i know i'd want everyone on this board to call something in if were over my town and i would do the same for them.

My response:

I have absolutely NO problem with spotters, sir. None at all. I admire greatly spotters and what they do. This is NOT against spotters whatsoever, in any way, shape, or form.

This is only about the attitude of *SOME* NWS officials toward chasers. I am not discrediting spotters, please understand. It is a fact that many spotters (not yourself or people like yourself with the passion for severe weather) contribute a tremendous service to the general public and to the National Weather Service. The comparison was not meant to offend you, sir.

Just the fact you are at this forum indicates you are a passionate spotter and obviously chaser. But you have to admit there are some casual spotters out there who honestly do not have the experience that some chasers do. I admire ALL spotters for what they do and their efforts. This is not directed at you.

 

[Dick McGowan]

I guess i'll just jump in my truck, turn on the amber light and sit by the side of the highway.Some of you need to get your heads outta your asses.

Come on my net and i'd tell ya to piss off too..

O rly? Wouldn't want this to be a one-liner, so I'll make it two.

 

[Shane Adams]

I spoke with a forecaster from National Weather Service (NWS) Amarillo.... He stated that his office would have been unaware of the Shamrock, TX tornado of 2/23/2007 if storm chasers Rocky Rascovich and Charles Edwards had not called in their report.

Believe it or not, that happened with David Drummond, Graham Butler, and myself on the June 12, 2004 Mulvane day. We called in all four of the tornadoes we observed, and while reporting the actual Mulvane tornado (the F3) the NWS guy remarked to Dave that they'd received no other reports to that point.

I might add to my earlier comments that, when I said I don't believe a chaser is obligated to just throw down everything and report immediately...of course if it's obvious lives are being immediately threatened, that is an exception. What I meant was a basic tornado in open country, and even then, I report it when possible....just not at the expense of my own personal experience/video. It takes but a few moments to secure a tripod and dial a number.

 

[Darin Brunin]

So let me get this straight,just because most chasers can make an educated guess about where severe weather might occur,makes them better that a spotter?Thats BS.

The difference is that the chaser would drive to and hopefully intercept storms where they were forecasting them to be. They would intercept these storms and gain experience while a spotter would sit in their county and wait for another day when their county is affected. If a chaser sees 15 supercells a year and a supercell enters a county where a spotter is 3 times during the same year, then over 5 years time that would be 75 supercells for the chaser compared to 15 for the spotter.....you can sit in a class all that you want but real experience is absolutely what matters most. Hopefully this explains what Jeff is trying to say a little better.

 

[Shane Adams]

[sarcasm] I would personally like to thank Brad Ketchum from the National Weather Service Office in Wichita for his views on the difference between chasers and spotters.[sarcasm]

From the Lawrence Journal World this morning.....
I am glad that you appreciate the reports and help that you get from storm chasers during severe weather.

So if you're reading this Brad, thanks a lot! It's nice to know that next time I call in a report while being a 'hazard on the road' it will help save people's lives. Oh well, I don't have an ICT spotter number anyways so my report will probably get thrown out as soon as it goes in anyways. Really, if people's lives weren't in danger, I wouldn't bother.

Full Article...
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/mar/07/weather_service_educating_public/?state_regional

That sucks to hear Darin, because I've always had nothing but great experiences working with ICT...however I've never heard of the guy you're talking about. I've always dealt with Chance Hayes, and he's always been ultra cool.

 

[David Drummond]

I've always dealt with Chance Hayes, and he's always been ultra cool.

I'd like to second that thought. My experience with Chance has been the same as Shane's.