Should Chasers Report, and If So - How?

[Jay McCoy]

One spotter net I checked in to make a large hail (3 inches) report told me "This is a closed net. Our spotters have the situation under control. Stay off this frequency until the net has closed." So how do you take that kind of response?

Say "if you have it so under control then why hasnt anybody else reported this monster hail??" lol

Thats exactly what most chasers run into is being looked down on even though most times we know far more than anybody in that "net". Thats why I will call local NWS offices but wont even bother getting on a net with the local spotters. I have tried it a few times and even though I am a ham and a certified spotter for this area they treat me like a leper because I also chase. Luckily even when I am spotting our AES group has its own frequency assigned by the city and we dont have to mess with the local spotters or anybody else. Our net rarely spots around amarillo because thats our job and we have our own people setup at the NWS. The spotter net works the surrounding counties.

 

[Kevin Askew]

IMO, the WFO is not thinking clearly. Forecasters should be able to tell the difference of an experienced chaser from a guy that grabs a camer & leaves.
Kevin

 

[SteveCarter]

I'm not about to rely on the spotters to call ANYTHING in. Am I pissing the spotters off? I hope not, but the bottom line here is....do I KNOW there is a spotter within 10 miles? No, I don't. I have two decals on my car..one says SKYWARN, the other says STORMCHASER. Call your reports in to local law officials and let them relay the message if you feel better about that. All it takes is 911 on your cell phone. But to think for one minute of letting a spotter call it in, and not doing it yourself, is IMO....the wrong choice. The last spotter I saw, was 10 miles south of Dumas, AR, SITTING on the side of the road with a pair of binoculars. I asked him what he was looking at, and he said he was looking for a tornado or funnel cloud! As I left him there, and DROVE towards Dumas, I got there 7 minutes AFTER the tornado ripped through there. Could he have POSSIBLY seen that? NO. I didn't even see it, but reported what I saw asap. Let's face it, we chasers will be there 90% of the time BEFORE a spotter will see anything, so we need to do their job if we have to. Sorry to piss the spotters off, because some of them really do a good job, and get in there when they have to, but....sitting alongside the road with binoculars??? Get a list of all the NWS numbers and keep them with you, but if you REALLY don't want to call THEM, at least call 911. As for me....I'll call the NWS when the need arises, and hopefully it might make a difference.

 

[Gerrit Gulden]

Thats why I will call local NWS offices but wont even bother getting on a net with the local spotters

I think its everyones duty if they venture out to an area experiencing severe weather to report the conditions via Phone to the local NWS of that area. Calling 911 to me should only be for Life threatning injury reporting. Reporting Via Local NWS by the Spotter/Chaser him/herself will give the Forecaster more of an opportunity to ask further questions, rather then a 911 emergency broadcaster relaying "Theres a tornado in Whatever county" etc etc.

I think its important to report Severe Weather criteria even tho you notice another Spotter has reported the incident, simply because some Spotters or Chasers might exagerate there report. The more reports the better the forecaster can balance out the info and make his/her decision.

I dont get much severe weather here in the Northwest, But when I do, I am sure to report in the format I was trained and not blab about how loud the lightning is, etc. I guess it all falls on how serious each person is and how much they are dedicated to getting there reports in to there NWS office.

 

[Ray Walker]

I think that it is up to the chaser, every or almost every chaser out has Ham or a scanner and is able to listen to police or spotter reports. I the chaser knows or has a doubt that the storm has not been reported then of course it is our responsability to report to the local NWS.

 

[Mark Manchester]

Working in 911 and Emergency Management, we are in direct contact with the NWS during severe weather events, so simply calling 911 is an option as well. We are more then happy to receive any weather information during these times.

 

[David Drummond]

Working in 911 and Emergency Management, we are in direct contact with the NWS during severe weather events, so simply calling 911 is an option as well. We are more then happy to receive any weather information during these times.

Keep in mind though, this is not always true in every area.

 

[Mark Manchester]

Keep in mind though, this is not always true in every area.

That is very true. However we have a terrific severe weather plan for our county and we try very hard to leave any animosity at the door. After all, safety should be first and foremost during any weather event, and receiving reports regardless of the source SHOULD be a priority, even though, as you stated, not all counties believe that for whatever reason.

 

[Mike Peregrine]

By the way, here is a link to the thread with Bill Tabor's NWS tel. no. overlay that can be installed over Street Atlas. Tyler Allison's link to GRLevelX overlay is also in this thread.

 

[Mikel Shively]

Keep in mind though, this is not always true in every area.

Very true.

I have worked for two different sheriff's departments, here in North Central MO and was NEVER trained on how to handle severe weather reports. The un-offical policy in both departments was to relay the report to the officer(s) I had out at the time, they would then confirm the report and I would relay the report to NWS when they called. (but they were good about calling) My main job, however was to sound the outdoor warning siren when a officer confirmed the report. However, all of this took quite a bit of time to complete. Luckily, neither county has had a tornado of any magnitude roll through for quite a while.

So, if you want your report to go to the NWS in a timely fashion, it may not always be the best thing to call 9-1-1.

 

[Laura Duchesne]

Here's my take on it...

I think chasers should report what they see, especially if it seems to be a threat to property and life, but I don't think it is their duty that they HAVE TO report the observation, that they would get penalized if they didn't... but all I know is, I couldn't live with myself if I didn't report a killer tornado or what have you.

I think it would make the chaser more responsible and caring if they reported what they saw... but more importantly, chasers DO end up seeing MORE of the action compared to spotters, referring to Amos' post.

Here in Ontario, Environment Canada won't even allow their Canwarn spotters to drive around locally to keep their eyes peeled... I don't think they would see a helluva lot if they were stuck inside their basement looking out a window instead. My friends and I have debated with some folks who run the Canwarn program about this issue because they seem to be giving us chasers the cold shoulder. I wish I could remind them that we reported those events by choice because we cared for communities that were threatened and that their spotters saw nothing.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying all spotters see nothing because that is entirely untrue as well, but because a majority of them don't have the skills of a chaser and won't drive thousands of miles to see storms, they won't see as much as a chaser would. I know a lot of the Environment Canada meteorologists and Canwarn spotters never even seen these kinds of storms in person, so they don't really know what to look for... such as calling in a shelf cloud as a rotating wall cloud or some rising scud as a tornado.

As for how, there is no right or wrong choice... whatever works best for you... for me it is better to phone in because I don't own a radio yet. The question you should be asking is do you trust your net controller, if you will be reporting on a net? You want your report to get to the weather office or NWS right away.

Should chasers be allowed to call in reports without hassle? YES. I personally never had a problem, I was always thanked but I've seen email discussions that shuned upon chasing and reporting. Yes I can see it because of liability reasons but at the same time Canwarn never told us to go chase, we chose to do that on our own and we thought we would be helpful by reporting. If we get hurt it is our responsibility. As I told the Canwarn folks, I've been doing this for several years now, I won't stop chasing now just so I can report from home.

 

[John Erwin]

I've tried to call in reports whenever possible and have adopted a "keep it simple" policy. For instance, I don't bother mention that I'm chasing a particular storm, I simply Identify myself as an amatuer radio operator, my position and what is happening. That's it.. no extended dialog or analysis on my part. Most of the time I get a "thank you" and occasionly a quick question or two; rarely have I had someone from the NWS or Env Can be rude, however they might sound detached.

I have experienced the "coldness" of some spotter nets though, both here in Manitoba and out on the plains. If they don't want my report I don't bother. In one case I was calling in locally here to report 2" hail and was told to keep off the air; they said they had no other reports of hail so I must have been mistaken.. I wonder how they felt when they read the news the next day about all the hail damage in my area...

 

[Bobby Prentice]

Never assume an event has been reported

I spoke with a forecaster from National Weather Service (NWS) Amarillo at the recent National Severe Weather Workshop in Norman. He stated that his office would have been unaware of the Shamrock, TX tornado of 2/23/2007 if storm chasers Rocky Rascovich and Charles Edwards had not called in their report. Nobody else bothered to call it in. And this was for a 10-15 minute long back-lit tornado along I-40 in the middle of a "Tornado Alley" tornado watch on a moderate (MDT) risk day!

Never assume an event has been reported to the National Weather Service.

 

[Jim Southard]

One spotter net I checked in to make a large hail (3 inches) report told me "This is a closed net. Our spotters have the situation under control. Stay off this frequency until the net has closed." So how do you take that kind of response?

I'm glad David brought this up because for me this is the stumbling block. In some areas, spotters and chasers are discouraged from directly contacting the NWS. Instead, they are directed to give their reports on a spotter net operating on a different frequency, and then that net will relay the reports along. This keeps the frequency that NWS is listening on clear.

This is fine, I can understand why an office in tornado alley wouldn't want their frequency to be deluged by reports when they are attempting to give out radar updates, statements, or that sort of current information. But unfortunately the protocol varies between WFOs, and this makes it more challenging for the chasers who are in that CWA for the first time and don't know the local protocol. I'd be a bit miffed too if I was given a response like that to my report. Even more so since in David's case this wasn't a "loose change" or barely severe hail report... it was giant hail with the potential to cause great damage and injury.

The bottom line for me is that when I don't know the local protocol, but I have a report that needs to get to the NWS immediately, I'm going to send it on the frequency I'm listening to - the quickest way that I am aware of to get the traffic to the WFO. If that gets me a slap on the wrist from the net controller for not following the proper procedure, fine. I've done my job relaying the priority or emergency traffic, and if I get something else to report later, then I'll gladly do so through the proper channels if they tell me what those channels are.

When relaying reports, spotters and chasers are after the same thing: getting the ground truth out to help protect lives and property. Hopefully spotter net controllers will keep this in mind and gratefully accept a chaser's report, maybe adding afterward something like "thanks for the report W5YYZ, please relay future reports on 147.xxx so we can keep this frequency clear for disseminating information."

Sorry to have rambled.

 

[Mike Peregrine]

Most of these posts are still reflecting the fact that the culture promotes greater trust in spotters over chasers (for lots of reasons).

Two years ago when I was getting my ham license (finally - and which I've never used once for actually calling in a report), the local net coordinator stood in front of our class of 25 or so people and when he found out I was a chaser said: "so you're one of those idiots who runs around after storms." When I said yes, he laughed and said "we'll see how long you keep that up after you bust a windshield or get hurt." Nice ... thanks for making me look like a jackass in front of your entire group of spotter trainees. But what could I say? I really don't care what they think of me personally ... but hey, this is really hurting the reporting process. If I can't trust that you are going to take my report seriously, then you need to get out of the way.

This is the reason why chasers report directly to the NWS in most cases. But this raises more questions. Is it really helping anyone or not? As it is, the system currently works like this (somebody feel free to correct this if its wrong):

Skywarn spotter - access to the 'spotter net' + report directly to net controller = local warning issued.

Storm chaser - no access to spotter nets + must rely on cell service (if available) to contact local NWS office + talk to the call center + get transferred to radar + radar consults WCM + WCM contacts local authorities = local authorities sound the siren (if the storm hasn't moved on by now). And this only works IF the local NWS knows and trusts the chaser's judgment in most cases. Plus, you've put the chaser on hold for ten minutes while all this gets worked out ... grrr. How many chasers are actually going to go through all this when all they really want to do is chase the friggin storm? Of course that's what we want to do ... we're storm chasers.

Calling 911 - this is even more 'iffy,' IMO. Now you're involving even more people ... a 911 operator ... two officers who have to drive out and verify, etc. etc.

So I guess what bugs me about the whole thing is that the ONE person who has the greatest access to what the storm is actually doing at ground level has the LEAST amount of access to the warning system.

I'd actually be willing to BET that most people posting in the NOW thread on this forum or talking in chat actually knows there's a tornado BEFORE local authorities do. And that's just not right. This should be made EASY, and it isn't.

Now I'll concede the fact that lots of us chasers are boneheads and have done as much to cause this problem as anyone. But does that mean that we should resign ourselves to just accept everything as being the best it could possibly be as it is? As it is, in a lot of ways I'm still more comfortable contacting local TV than I am going through the reporting process, just because I know there will be an immediate result.

*P.S. - I'm not slamming spotters. I believe they are effective and have their place, and I am truly thankful for them. I'm just saying that things could be better. ... also, we've had this discussion every year now for at least the past eight that I've been posting to these boards, so if you'd like you can feel free to go back over each season's worth of posts and see it in all its forms.