Should Chasers Report, and If So - How?

[Scott Olson]

*I still believe in reporting to the NWS. Not all the time, and not every time. But I do believe in it. If not during the event, or if I feel like the spotters have a good handle on what is going on, then I won't report at all until after the event, and then just with an email to the WCM with photos and what-not.

Pretty similar along my line of thinking. I'll call in a report if I don't think there are many spotters around. I'll also usually provide information to the NWS office after the chase (espically if it's FSD or ABR since I know people from both offices). It's not the reason I chase and I usually only do it if I feel it it is necessary. I think the job spotters do is great and I commend them for their work. Interestingly, this same issue was discussed many years ago in the pages of Stormtrack. A College of Dupage chaser was critizced for not calling in a report of a tornado and it sparked a whole furry of letters from chasers/mets and educators.

 

[Tim Stoecklein]

Next time you see a local spotter....ask them what the dewpoint high is expected to be in their area that day. I bet they can't tell you 99% of the time.

I find usually in an area, there are a small handful that are really on the situation and gung ho about their spotting and well aware of the overall situation. Then there are the rest... that basically just like to get their call sign on the net.

I think David brings a good observation to the plate. I've been involved with local spotting groups that fall on both ends of the spectrum, and each group had members that fell on both ends of the spectrum. Some are checking models and outlooks three days out, while others don't know why a watch is issued when their wx radio goes off. I question the effectiveness of having spotters who fall in the latter group, but you know what, I have made the choice to get involved to try to change that.

I stepped up to volunteer to coordinate our local spotter group here in Riley county. I felt it was time to help educate these folks who didn't have the knowledge in weather to go along with their knowledge in ham radio. We communicate heavily via e-mail leading up to an actual event, and I've posted discussion well in advance of the past two systems including links to SPC, NWS Hazardous Outlooks, my forecast, and thoughts about being ready for callout. Am I wasting my time sharing this information and my thoughts with a group of spotters? I say absolutely not. It's further education and proactive thinking to get involved. I would encourage every chaser to get involved with a local spotter group if you have something to offer. It doesn't mean you have to be tied down during a severe weather event

 

[Mikel Shively]

It sounds like I am in the minority here, but I guess it all depends on how things are going for me at the time. If I am chasing by myself (which most of the time I do), I may not have time to do everything I need to do and call in a report, unless it's heading for a town, in which case I do usually go ahead and call. If I happen to have a partner, then that is a different story. I ususally do have enough time to make a report, however, even in that secenario I won't call in hail or wind, just a tornado touchdown. I'll let the local spotters worry about the hail and wind reporting.

With that being said, I usually do make a report via e-spotter of all the severe weather that I observed after the event.

That's just my 2 cents worth, but I figure, I have spent a considerable portion of my time and income for chasing related things, and I don't want to miss photographing a tornado, because I was on the phone.

 

[Jason Tunzer]

Well my turn to chime in and piss some people off,I know this isn't on topic but it is being mentioned in this thread.I am also a Spotter but I also do some chasing when time allows.We have an 8 week course that out spotters go through as well as the mandated NWS training.So as i'm reading this I see several folks on here basically bashing the spotters.I thought this site was to share weather related info to others that have the same passion,since when did it become StormSnob?Everyone has to start somewhere and this site was one of mine,but to talk trash about others that might not have your knowledge is just wrong.I'm a spotter first and a chaser second.Somone needs to watch John Q Public's back and i'd like to think we could all work together to get reports to the public either via NWS or local stations.I guess i'll just jump in my truck, turn on the amber light and sit by the side of the highway.Some of you need to get your heads outta your asses.

 

[Mike Peregrine]

Somone needs to watch John Q Public's back and i'd like to think we could all work together to get reports to the public either via NWS or local stations.

I'd agree with this ...

As for the rest of the post, I'd also agree that it's off topic.

 

[David Drummond]

Well my turn to chime in and piss some people off,I know this isn't on topic but is is being addressed.I am also a Spotter but I also do some chasing when time allows.We have an 8 week course that out spotters go through as well as the mandated NWS training.So as i'm reading this I see several folks on here basically bashing the spotters.I thought this site was to share weather related info to others that have the same passion,since when did it become StormSnob?Everyone has to start somewhere and this site was one of mine,but to talk trash about others that might not have your knowledge is just wrong.I'm a spotter first and a chaser second.Somone needs to watch John Q Public's back and i'd like to think we could all work together to get reports to the public either via NWS or local stations.I guess i'll just jump in my truck, turn on the amber light and sit by the side of the highway.Some of you need to get your heads outta your asses.

Jason, something you need to realize is that while your group may have an 8 week training course, there are many across the country (yes even in the plains) that all the get as far as training is attending a basic SKYWARN class put on by the NWS.

It's not bashing, just an observation. Some areas/groups are VERY thorough on the training, some areas a basic SKYWARN talk once a year is all there is.

I've run into to many great spotters over the years across 10 states and countless thousands of miles. Many spotters are my friends. But the reality of it is, you pick a random spotter on the side of the road, more often than not they won't have the knowledge that would help them (and those receiving their reports) better. The funny thing is, even spotters recognize this when they are honest about it. The few really good ones you have in each group complain about the "it's getting dark and raining" reporters as well. This goes for spotters and chasers as well. The more knowledge about storms in general you have, as well as about the setup for the day, the better your report is going to be.

I occasionally attend a SKYWARN meeting, heck I've spoken at a couple of them. I can tell you that every single SKYWARN meeting I have ever attended without exception, including one very well publicized one on the planes that I won't mention specifically, I have heard chaser bashing to some degree or another. I know of a couple of SKYWARN spotter groups that want ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with storm chasers.

Personally, I never understood the animosity between spotters/chasers/combination of the two. Nonetheless, it exists and I don't know if it will ever go away.

 

[Amos Magliocco]

After the Happy, Texas tornado, I found out that two people died when they stayed in their mobile home even after their only son had fled for a shelter with his aunt. I didn't call in a report that day because I knew that Sam Barricklow had already done so, and I also watched the tornado touch down and heard the long siren's wail begin at that very moment. Listen, they had enough time to make a small picnic lunch and take it to the shelter before that tornado arrived. As a result, I was and remain pissed at those two parents for orphaning their son for no good reason. But if I hadn't known a report was called in, and then had not bothered to do so myself, then instead of resenting their stupidity, I'd be full of self-loathing and worse.

"Let the spotters do it" is a false option. I've been around many tornadic supercells with nary a spotter in sight or on any frequency. The other chasers and I were the only ones watching. No, we're not legally obligated to call anybody.

But imagine if you saw something that killed somebody and you had neglected to call NWS or check into Skywarn because your ego had been bruised in some prior exchange or you felt the gratitude and recognition you received on the internet were insufficient. Maybe you're the kind of person who that wouldn't bother, but I bet you're not.



Who gives a **** if certain Skywarn controllers are chilly to our reports? Let the blood be on their hands, the nitwits. The way I see it, we’re still obligated to try.

I've had NWS staff blow me off. The first cold core tornado on 4/10/05 must have seemed so unlikely to the radar operator that he chose not to warn despite my detailed description. But once I make the call, if they make a bad choice and fail to warn and that somehow increases the chance for injuries or death, then yes it sucks and I feel badly for the victims, but I did what I’m trained to do and what our expertise as stormchasers gives us the privilege—and, in my mind, the duty as fellow human beings— to offer.

 

[Billy Griffin]

Not really sure why all the debate really. There are some who will chase and not call in, while others are in constant contact with the media, spotter groups, ham radio relays, etc.

For me personally, I started off just doing this as a hobby, but keep in mind this was way even before the use of cell phones (I'm dating myself here), and then in the 90s, I was involved in both TV and radio reports. Now, I just do it for the enjoyment when I can.

Obviously, if I see something that I feel warrants a report, I'm going to call it in in. But to each, their own, eh?

 

[Mike Peregrine]

But imagine if you saw something that killed somebody and you had neglected to call NWS or check into Skywarn because your ego had been bruised in some prior exchange or you felt the gratitude and recognition you received on the internet were insufficient. Maybe you're the kind of person who that wouldn't bother, but I bet you're not.

I really think that you hit the nail. This is the reason I was looking for in all this, and it's really the only one that makes any sense. It's totally right - and in my mind provides all the motivation a person needs.

 

[Brian Stertz]

No real debate going on..it's just an affirmation statement by chasers that the right thing to do is hoped for...but may not be possible in every chase situation. The goal is to make sure that residents of an affected area are given proper warning...that is backed up by solid and timely in the field reports. I'll do what I can to help the cause...and to make sure not to assume anything while chasing. In about 3 weeks, the spring action will be returning so chasers have your NWS 800# lists ready !!

 

[Jay McCoy]

I serve on both sides of the fence. My AES groups #1 responsibility is spotting for the city of Amarillo. We are the eyes of the EOC. That being said even in our group there are guys in our group that dont have the 1st clue about wx. Yes we go through standard NWS spotter training everey year but a few still couldnt tell the difference bewtween scud and a funnel. It is required that any tornado or funnel report be verified by another spotter in the area before any action is taken. (and this may sound like ego talking but its fact). The only exception is when I call in a report My DEM knows I have been chasing and spotting for over 20 yrs and if I report a tornado they bank on it and sound the sirens. I remember back on June 21, 2004 (huge hail storm) we had our guys in the field. I was watching some strong rotation from the wallcloud that had already dropped a tornado when I saw another funnel coming down. I reported it to the EOC and another one of the units came on and said he didnt see anything. I asked where he was. He happened to be only about 1/2 mile from me. I could see his vehicle and realized why he didnt see anything. he was directly under it and had no clue he was in danger.

Spotters do a great service to their community and most of the time do a great job but nobody can say that the majority of them have the experience or knowledge a veteran chaser has. There are some spotter with years of experience that have yet to see a tornado. Also there are many times that there are multiple storms and there just arent enough spotters to cover them all. If I am on a storm and I observe anything threatening from large hail to wall clouds to tornados I report it. The local NWS may have already received numerous reports from the local net and I am only providing verification or it may be their initial report on the event but why risk it. If taking the time to make 1 simple 2 minute report saves 1 life then its all worth it. Imagine if somebody had known a drunk was speeding down the road but nobody called to report it cause they thought somebody else did and that driver slams into your car killing your child. Wouldnt you have wished somebody had made that call. Why guess that somebody else did the job. multiple reports only verify the situation. If I knew later I was too busy "taking pictures" to be bothered reporting it and somebody dies because nobody reported it then that blood is on my hands no matter how I rationalize it. "oh its not my regular area so let somebody else do it" or "i am sure the sherriff or local spotter already called it in" doesn not let you escape culpability for not reporting what you saw. With attitudes like that no wonder so many NWS offices and spotters dislike chasers. Chasers are only in it for themselves and damn be anybody else. Everybody from civilians to spotters to chasers have a responsibility to humanity.

 

[Jesse Risley]

Why would you not report something, especially if by chance no spotters were on the storm? Are chasers not merely mobile spotters that move like a bat out of hell? My God, what if your family was in danger or directly in the path of the storm? How would you live with yourself if people were injured or killed and no ample warning was given, despite the fact that YOU were the only one out there and YOU knew this storm posed a threat to civilians yet assumed others were already taking care of that aspect?

Believe it or not, sometimes chasers and other very "weather savy" people are the only one's (outside of the meteorlogical community) that realize a potential for severe weather might exist in a given location, since some lower key severe weather events catch public safety agencies and traditional spotter groups off guard if some big deal is not made about it in a NWS HWO.

I do agree that the NWS does not endorse chasing due to liability. Some day someone chasing or spotting is going to get seriously hurt or killed; it's just the odds of the game. The NWS has somewhat sensible "protocalls" for spotters that, when followed, have done a fairly effective job at preventing a multitude of serious injuries. However, in the nature of the litiguous society that we live in, I can see some moron who gets injured while chasing trying to sue the NWS or specific NWS personnel. Would it be a successful lawsuit - probably not. However, I can understand where the NWS would probably prefer the old adage that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. How can you even begin to endorse protocalls for chasing, especially since we all have our own style and chasing is much riskier, IMHO.

Sure, spotting can be dangerous, but I do believe that we, as chasers, are doing something twice as dangerous if for no other reason than the simple fact that chasing involves much more driving, and the highway itself is probably our biggest foe and poses the greatest potential for injury.

 

[Kevin Askew]

I was first a chaser, then a spotter. I chase storms out of KPAH or county warning area Williamson in Illinois. We have WFO PAH, MEM, LTR, STL, & LCN, on speed dial. We love the thrill of the hunt but ultimently want to help save lives. So when threat is minimal here, we venture elsewhere. Wife & I love being chaser/spotters. So if chasers should report severewx? Yes, but will probably be taken much more seriously as registered spotter IMO. Alot of you chasers only are very experienced & kuddos to ya, but WFO's dont know who they are talking to on other end.
Kevin

 

[Damon Poole]

Regardless of one's technical skill, or, how one perceives the way that certain NWS offices have received or used their previous reports, it is vital that any chaser or spotter immediately report what they see, when a life threatening event is occurring, or imminent, unless safety or communications problems prevent it. At the very least, contact local officials and ask that they relay your report to the NWS, so that they can alert the people in the path. To do otherwise is dangerously selfish and irresponsible.

 

[David Drummond]

Just to clarify what I meant by one of the NWS offices being rude and condescending..... I called in to report a tornado that had caused damage. The first thing out of the guys mouth was (paraphrased a little, I don't remember the EXACT words now it was a few years back) "What are you doing out there? You have no business out there chasing these dangerous storms! Your going to get yourself killed!" at which point I hung up on the guy. He was obviously more interested in lecturing me than he was getting the report. I have no doubt that report went in one ear and out the other.

Keep in mind this was an isolated incident, but it was a bad enough taste in my mouth for me to never call that office again. I'll call the local TV station next time in that area instead. Most of the time NWS offices are much appreciative of the reports.


One spotter net I checked in to make a large hail (3 inches) report told me "This is a closed net. Our spotters have the situation under control. Stay off this frequency until the net has closed." So how do you take that kind of response?