Should Chasers Report, and If So - How?

[Eric Whitehill]

Just to clarify what I meant by one of the NWS offices being rude and condescending..... I called in to report a tornado that had caused damage. The first thing out of the guys mouth was (paraphrased a little, I don't remember the EXACT words now it was a few years back) "What are you doing out there? You have no business out there chasing these dangerous storms! Your going to get yourself killed!" at which point I hung up on the guy. He was obviously more interested in lecturing me than he was getting the report. I have no doubt that report went in one ear and out the other.

Keep in mind this was an isolated incident, but it was a bad enough taste in my mouth for me to never call that office again. I'll call the local TV station next time in that area instead. Most of the time NWS offices are much appreciative of the reports.


One spotter net I checked in to make a large hail (3 inches) report told me "This is a closed net. Our spotters have the situation under control. Stay off this frequency until the net has closed." So how do you take that kind of response?

David:

Unfortunetly, I had a similar experience with a local weather net. I was watching a wall cloud developing, and I called it into the net as it had started to tighten up. During this time, there was another spotter on the about 10 miles from me. This other spotter was acually arguing with me over the radio saying the wall cloud was not rotating, told me over the air I did not know what I was looking at or what I was doing. What do you do? I put down my radio mic and picked up my cell phone and called the local NWS office.

The sad part is, there are a few bad apples out there. Who knows their reasons why. However, if I see a tornado/wall cloud/funnel, guess what. It's getting called in. Thirty seconds is all it will take for the report to get called in via phone.

I have noticed, however, that more and more nets are becoming closed. Most nets have their reasons, and they are very good reasons - they do not want people they do not know or have not trained calling in reports. One may think "Well, I have been chasing for X$ years! Why wouldn't they want my report!" Try to look at it from the local weather net's perspective - they have someone with a callsign from (possibly) out of the area attempting to call in reports. Why should the local net believe this person? How can you be sure this is actually what they are looking at? How do we know this person isn't a teenage kid that got ahold of a ham radio? The local nets have their reasons, and this is totally understandable, and to be honest, it is a move I understand and support. As a chaser, we also have to take notice of what the rules are for other areas. If a spotter group does not want us calling in reports, that is their decision - they have autonomous rule over their repeaters. They set the rules, and if we do not abide by them, we can get in trouble. If the local net doesn't want you calling in reports, it's then time to call the local NWS office.

There is still a division between chasers and spotters. It has gotten better over the last several years, however, there is still this division. Some spotters will look at us chasers and think of us as nothing but yahoo's and idiots. Some chasers will look at the local spotter groups and snicker, and point and laugh. I've seen so many other chasers go to spotter classes and proudly proclaim in front of everyone "I'M A CHASER! PH33R M3 AND R3SP3CT M3!" That's the image that we portray to some spotter groups. We're Yahoos. It's kinda like wearing a "I'M A STORMCHASER" hat or getting all dressed up in our chase gear for a spotter class. This just helps to reinforce the negative image we convey to spotters. We're young 'kids' with nothing else better to do. Now, not all chasers do this, but some of them do, and like I said before, it only takes one or two bad apples to change the image for all chasers.

Our image is as much about perception as it is actual image. Give needs to happen on both sides of the aisle.

As for me, I'll work with the local spotter groups as best I can, however in an emergency situation, I will not hesitate to call the local NWS office.

JMHO, YMMV.

 

[cedwards]

It's kinda like wearing a "I'M A STORMCHASER" hat or getting all dressed up in our chase gear for a spotter class. This just helps to reinforce the negative image we convey to spotters.

I agree with your post except for this statement.
I don't see that this reinforces a negative image. I wear a storm chaser shirt to the local spotter talks and am treated with respect. I also act in a respectful manor. I am proud to be a chaser, just as most of the people at those meetings are proud to be HAMs and display their call signs on their hats and shirts.

We, as chasers, can teach some things to spotters, not by putting them down, but by sharing our experiences. We can also learn things from them. I like to know their reporting procedures, What they do and don't understand about storms and storm structure. When I hear spotter reports, I don't discount them, If I understand the spotter, I will better understand the biases of the report if any. Just like reading computer models. We know they are not always correct, but we understand their biases, and take that into account.

 

[cdcollura]

Good day,

I think it would be important to report what you see, if you can, in terms of severe weather - Whether spotters are around or not!

You may save a life ;-)

 

[Mike Peregrine]

We, as chasers, can teach some things to spotters, not by putting them down, but by sharing our experiences. We can also learn things from them.

This is a good attitude, and it's one that several on the board who cross over between chaser/spotter also have by working with both worlds. Those areas that have a spotter program that works in cooperation with chasers and NWS personnel are some of the most solid around. Douglas Co., Kansas is just one good example of how positive it can be when chasers, spotters and scientists work together to improve local nets. It would be great to find some more time to share experiences this way and work with nets rather than against each other.

 

[David Drummond]

I agree with your post except for this statement.
I don't see that this reinforces a negative image. I wear a storm chaser shirt to the local spotter talks and am treated with respect. I also act in a respectful manor. I am proud to be a chaser, just as most of the people at those meetings are proud to be HAMs and display their call signs on their hats and shirts.

We, as chasers, can teach some things to spotters, not by putting them down, but by sharing our experiences. We can also learn things from them. I like to know their reporting procedures, What they do and don't understand about storms and storm structure. When I hear spotter reports, I don't discount them, If I understand the spotter, I will better understand the biases of the report if any. Just like reading computer models. We know they are not always correct, but we understand their biases, and take that into account.

This reminds me of something I think about from time to time. I wonder how many (or even IF) spotters, spotter nets, or even NWS offices take a chaser more seriously if they have a ham call and communicate that to them. Obviously you would if reporting my ham net. But I mean in like calling the NWS, or being at meetings etc.

 

[Doug_Kiesling]

My answer, depends on the weather.

First off, unless your in the middle of Montana and even that is no longer a low chaser convergence zone anymore, someone will be calling in the tornado. Be it law enforcement, public, spotters or chasers, it seems lieke everything will be called in even when it is not happening.

With chasing now a sport like hunting and people driving over 1000 miles in the middle of August or September non stop just to see a storm the next day, everything these days seems like it is reported even if it is not really happening.

If there is one thing that I have noticed over the years is the bragging rights by some people saying "THAT'S MY REPORT ON SPC" or worse yet, "WERE OUT HERE SAVING LIVES... (so that lets us ignore traffic laws like cops)". Actually, no, your not in most cases since the storm has been warned for a while with a watch before that. Law enforcement is out watching the sky as well and with just about everyone with a cell phone and a camera, there calling 911 to report it and taking pictures at the same time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pS1kMJlErQ

So to report a tornado or to not report a tornado, that is the question?

If your listening to the weather radio while chasing and you don't hear of the warning on the ground, I would say yes but the odds are that it will already be warned by someone seeing it as a wall cloud 10 minutes ago with no clue as to what there looking at and calling it in as a half mile wide wedge.

But, to call in a warning other then a tornado is something to ponder.

I think in the last 2 years I have called in more flash flooding and flood reports (not counting hurricanes) then I have called in tornado reports.

Lets be honest here, how many people die each year around the world from tornadoes vs flooding? Granted tornadoes get the rock star headlines that grab everyones attention but how many chasers call in reports of water covering the road or creek over the bank? NWS puts so much into the turn around don't drown but yet I have to wonder how many flood reports vs tornado reports they receive from chasers.

So the short answer, No, I won't call in a tornado warning because in almost every case, I'm already in a traffic jam of chasers, spotters and locals that are filming the storm like a Hollywood Paparazzi chasing Britney. But if I see something that is not reported such as flooding, major tree damage from winds, crop damage from hail or winds, I might call that in.

 

[Mike Peregrine]

I'd agree with the statements you made about flooding, and it's a good point that no one even mentioned yet ... but when it comes to tornadoes I'm more of the opinion that we probably shouldn't assume what has or hasn't been reported. It may be that spotter A in one location made the report, but then the storm occludes and produces again in an area devoid of spotters. The second tornado deserves a report as well. That's not to say that if I'm hearing accurate reports pouring in that I'm going to jump on the phone and add mine to a list of a hundred others. Because I see no need.

But while its true that the majority of tors are reported these days, that's not a blanket truth. I've had several storms where my report was the only one received, one of which helped provoke a warning. So it still happens, believe it or not. I've noticed the situation more down here on the early days when chasers aren't risking a drive across country, but something happens.

 

[Darin Brunin]

[sarcasm] I would personally like to thank Brad Ketchum from the National Weather Service Office in Wichita for his views on the difference between chasers and spotters.[sarcasm]

From the Lawrence Journal World this morning.....

Ketcham said storm spotters should not be confused with storm chasers.
While some storm chasers serve a scientific purpose, conducting real-time research in the field, many are in it for the thrill and the glory, creating a hazard on the road, he said.

I am glad that you appreciate the reports and help that you get from storm chasers during severe weather.

So if you're reading this Brad, thanks a lot! It's nice to know that next time I call in a report while being a 'hazard on the road' it will help save people's lives. Oh well, I don't have an ICT spotter number anyways so my report will probably get thrown out as soon as it goes in anyways. Really, if people's lives weren't in danger, I wouldn't bother.

Full Article...
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2007/mar/07/weather_service_educating_public/?state_regional

 

[Jeff Miller]

I believe it is completely appropriate to report, and I believe it is a chaser's duty to at least make an ATTEMPT to report. I would hate to go home and read a LSR that says "1 fatal" in an area I was just in, and how could I help but not feel guilty because I failed to call it in with the suspicion someone else already did.

Now, concerning Darin's report on Mr. Ketcham from Wichita.

Anyone who does not get a certain "thrill or glory" while chasing to me isn't really a chaser. Almost every chaser chases because of the fact it is something they thoroughly enjoy doing. What Mr. Ketcham fails to state is that most chasers, even though satisfying their inner passion for severe weather, also feel an obligation - a deep obligation - to report and to help - whenever possible.

Mr. Ketcham also fails to state that a majority of chasers are far more meteorologically experienced then many spotters. A spotter with a number and a direct line to the NWS means nothing if the spotter does not have the meteorological experience to present an ACCURATE and QUALITY report. The fact of the matter is that most chasers chase because they WANT to chase, and learn because the WANT to learn, and report because they want to report. There is a major difference between doing something because it's a duty to do it and doing something because you want to do it.

If reporting real time severe weather with the full intent of saving lives, giving accurate and quality reports, using our cell phone minutes to call in these reports, giving crucial ground truth data, and recording useful video data to be used for subsequent ground truth verification is being a road hazard, well, thanks for nothing. I'm glad our efforts are worthy of such praise. I'll keep doing it however because I WANT to, regardless of what anyone thinks. Chasing is the one thing I am totally passionate about - and Mr. Ketcham, hopefully you will consider this before you label us all as road hazards in the future.

 

[matt patterson]

It seems to me that there should be no question here. Chasers should report if possible. Who cares if you get a duplicate report? A duplicate report is much better than no reports or a false report anyday. To mr Ketcham, i have family and property in wichita (that includes an apartment complex that has several dozen familys living there) and i think that if a chaser is out, I want their report. As its been stated before, chasers many times have a much more expansive knowledge of severe weather than most spotters, so Ill take every thing i can get. Im sorry you feel they are a hazard, but regardless their reports will probably save lives.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

I figure it is warned for, that is all the public needs. I have a very hard time thinking of any tornado I've seen that didn't already have a tornado warning on it. A person shouldn't need a street address of a tornado to take the warning seriously. It seems like those storms far from the radar are even done well.

I guess I don't get all the fuss since an extreme majority of tornadoes are warned for before they even happen. If some of the reports out there aren't done better, I don't see anyone taking the warning more serious because someone is reporting something. When I hear warnings on a storm I can't see yet, I take "doppler indicated" to mean a whole lot more than any report. Public shouldn't need anymore than that.

If there is a problem out there that needs fixing it is the use of radar for warning storm motion. Good lord those are useless 90% of the time.

 

[Mike Peregrine]

Wow ... we could have used Mr. Ketcham's quote a few days ago when this thread started to illustrate the point ... to the people in these offices, chasers amount to little more than a pain in their side. So why should we support them exactly? - Please someone tell me again how my report getting called into Wichita is going to be taken seriously by Mr. Ketcham and how it is going to help warn people in the path of this thing.

That just makes me think that I want nothing more to do with it.

Why exactly should I send photos, GPS coordinates and whatever other thankless work we should dream up to these offices? Does it really save lives? Yeah, PLEASE let me spend a bunch of time on this so you can assemble your reports. For the science. For humanity. Give me a break. What about sending in those videos for spotter training you say? - Yes, let's train those spotters what the tornadoes look like and where to be, and while we're at it, we might as well train them to hate the people who provided them.

Thanks, but at least if I call a TV station I can tell people where I am, what I'm looking at and what the storm is doing. And it happens now. No chains of communication. No politics. Now I almost wish I could go back through and edit all of the comments where I was at least trying to maintain some positive outlook on the subject and give the situation the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Angie Norris]

Mr. Ketchum sounds like a WCM I once knew on the other side of the country. Most of the spotters back there were HAMs who never left the house, but their reports were taken over the few chasers out in the field. Oh well.
I've called in everything from hail to wind damage to flash flooding...even one report of dense fog. Have my reports always gone through?...let's just say I knew when the WCM was in the office. Frustrating?...yep. Did I ever want to not call in the report?...yep. Why did I still call in?...because deep down I knew it may make a difference.
I just don't understand the conflict between spotters and chasers. We have the same goals...just different outlooks.

 

[Justin Teague]

I believe that reporting is a very important part of storm chasing. We have a rather vast Skywarn network in E. Oklahoma, and I suppose that we are lucky to have a good relationship between spotters and chasers here. We have really closed the gap between the chaser and the spotter, and I would venture to say that our MIC and WCM in Tulsa probably view us as "mobile spotters" at this point in time. I have even had lengthy conversations with spotters from my area and they are fascinated with my video and stories. Hopefully the gap will continue to close throughout the country and people will realize that we are more than adrenaline junkies and photographers, our reports can and do save lives.

 

[Shane Adams]

I didn't vote because the ballot is too black/white. There's a gray area in there that would've been my vote. I don't believe a chaser should be expected to just drop everything to call in a live report. I do it when it's possible, but I won't ruin or miss out on a video opportunity just to make a phone call. Once the vidcam is set and things are in hand, then I make the call.