Should Chasers Report, and If So - How?

[Mike Peregrine]

It could cause hard feelings where there's no reason for them or make newer chasers more reluctant to call the weather service.

I agree with most of what you say, Amos. But feel that the hard feelings toward chasers were already there with some individuals, and are actively promoted frequently in blogs by members of these agencies. If I were to go on record with local newspapers and say the opposite of what was said about chasers in Lawrence ... make the same generalization that the NWS isn't working for good, but basically just gets in the way during severe weather, then I think more than a few people would have hard feelings. Why? Because it isn't true.

One person's opinion has the ability to make a difference (whether good or bad), just like one thread on the internet also has the ability to change the way people think. It's my hope that all chasers, including newer chasers, continue to report in spite of the by and large negative attitudes against them.

 

[Willie Dines]

I agree with you wholeheartedly on that Mike

The way I see it is, human life comes before politics or pride, and I don't care about what the anyone thinks of chasers/spotters, because we're all here for the same purpose, to warn the public of any potentialy life threatening weather, and as far as I'm concerned, nothing will ever change that

Maybe it would be better if the NSSL was able to set up a direct call centre for all chasers and spotters, to be able to call in and give out warnings/reports, then the NSSL could by typing up the details online, to e-mail them or IM them to the respectful NWS office of that area

Willie

 

[John Haas]

I am not a professional at this by any means. However, this gets me a little excited to put my point of view in. Some of this will touch on what many of you have already said. But I just wanted to share my view.

Here are the issues I have:

1. Yahoo’s (Will the real storm chasers please stand up?)
2. Closed Skywarn nets
3. Folks making bad reports (Scudnadoes)

I bought a 2 meter radio a few years ago. It’s an ICOM-2100H. I bought it right after I passed my armature radio exam. I did this with the intention of making storm reports and talking to other chasers. I made a few storm reports, but hardly ever communicated with other chasers. Most of the time, I hear reports coming from the public or local law enforcement. I think chasers should make reports. However, I wanted to list a few questions, and a few things that frustrate me.

1. Yahoo’s. I have/had a few friends who were only about the chase that’s it. They don’t have an Ham radio, and won’t make any calls. I have asked them, “Why wont you make any calls or get a ham radio� For the most part they tell me someone else will make the report. So what they do is wait to hear a report on the scanner, and then go chase the storm. They are the kind that will tear through a front yard in their vehicle or blow past a four way stop. Their only care is to see a tornado. That’s it. Their idea of chasing is watching people’s homes get blown up, and catching it on video to send in to the news media. Never mind the folks whose lives were just ruined. I have noticed this with more than just a few people.

2. Closed Skywarn nets. Someone already touched on this, but I have a question. What do you do if you see something, but folks on a closed net don’t? Do you break in, or do you just say, “Oh well� Johnson County, KS is a closed net and they used to get pretty bent if someone broke in.

3. Bad reports. How do you correct someone who made a bad report? How do you do it without pissing them off or trying to make it sound like you’re a know it all?


Last comment:

You know these days; everyone says they are a storm chaser. The movie “Twister†really opened the gates when it came out. Now it seems to me local and national media like to sensationalize storm chasing around this time of year (March). The Weather Channel has (Storm Week), Discovery has their deal. Oh, and we can’t forget local news stations. If I am thinking right Fox News Channel 4 in Kansas City is coming out with a storm chaser DVD. So geez, let me see, it’s no wonder everyone either wants to be a storm chaser or claims to be one. So my point on this is, “How do we know a real chaser from a yahoo�

 

[Jesse Risley]

1. Ignore the yahoos and let them look like idiots. As much as it bothers me too, we can't control the behavior of every ignoramous out in the field. If you feel the need say something to their face do so, but let it go.

2. Screw "closed" SKYWARN nets when a true emergency arises. Anyone can use ham radio in an emergency, and a "closed" net will have to yield to life threatening traffic if need be. Spotter role calls will have to yield to traffic reporting a wedge tornado bearing down on Hooterville.

3. Remember that people can be five miles apart and not see the same storm structures. I was working a supercell last April that damaged parts of Hancock and McDonough counties in west central IL. While reporting violent rotation I had a sheriff's deputy tell me I was pulling a Scudwarn stunt. The story changed when he was on scene and homes were damaged. If reports are false, let the said spotter or chaser take the heat and assume sole responsibility.

 

[Bryce Stone]

Perhaps I should be a little bit more clear on what I meant by "bash." During the spotter talks I have attended in the last few years, I have been concerned about the following issues.

First, chasers are not even mentioned in the presentations until the "road hazards" part of the talks. This is usually the only place chasers are specifically discussed. This creates a negative image in the public's mind, as well as local law enforcement attending.

Second, a disproportionally large number of chaser video shown is cautionary video (i.e. "these chasers got too close," or "look at these chasers with all their windows blown out"). These videos often play to laughs from those attending. I have not personally seen any videos at talks I've been to which demonstrated how chasers can serve the public interest.

Am I being unfair when I say that people in attendance could get a negative image of storm chasing from the NWS spotter presentations? For most in the general public, for spotters, and for law enforcement, this is likely the only contact they will ever have face-to-face with an "official" weather person. If this contact leaves them with the impression that storm chasers are foolish and don't contribute to the public interest, then that's the impression they will keep (it came from an "official" source).

Having said that, I do recall one met who gave a talk and even while presenting the NWS' public statement on storm chasing, managed to leave a good impression of storm chasers on those attending. He was a younger guy, but unfortunately I can't remember his name. I guess it all comes down to how each individual met giving the talk wants to portray chasing.

I understand why the NWS can't endorse chasing, but a balanced explanation to the public would be nice. I absolutely agree that we need to work at coming together instead of moving apart. I'm not trying to divide chasers and the "official" community, I'm just asking that storm chasers not be made a laughingstock in public.

 

[Willie Dines]

Some very good points raised there Jesse , to which I agree with wholeheartedly, as I do with John and Bryce

I just hope that whatever differences there is, that they be sorted out and soon, because like I said before, human life is too precious to be put at risk, over who is reporting the life threatening weather, property can be replaced, human life can't.

Willie

 

[SteveCarter]

I finally decided to just ask the local NWS service branch what they thought about storm CHASERS reporting in storm damage, tornadoes, etc. When I asked him, I didn't let him know if I was a chaser, spotter, or just plain John Q. Public. This was his response.

We would be happy to hear any reports
from you. In case you need it, our severe weather hot line is
1-800-268-xxxx. Or, you can call 1-800-267-8101 and leave a message.

He was very friendly, and went on to say that any reports they receive they take seriously. I then told him my name, and he said he then remembered me when I attended the SkyWarn classes over a year ago, and in fact, told me where I lived! So, I know he really DID remember me. I was impressed with his openess in regards to the acceptance of storm CHASERS. So I guess every office does things differently, but here in SC, the chasers are NOT dissed like some other places.

*EDIT* The reason I x'd out the last four numbers was because this number is only for spotters, that they have an ID profile on. When I asked him about the chaser numbers, he said to use the pther number, but only because the spotters have an ID profile that lets them know they are trained. He DID say howver, that he welcomed ALL reports from chasers, and that he welcomed our help...so

 

[Jeff Miller]

I finally decided to just ask the local NWS service branch what they thought about storm CHASERS reporting in storm damage, tornadoes, etc. When I asked him, I didn't let him know if I was a chaser, spotter, or just plain John Q. Public. This was his response.

We would be happy to hear any reports
from you. In case you need it, our severe weather hot line is
1-800-268-xxxx. Or, you can call 1-800-267-8101 and leave a message.

He was very friendly, and went on to say that any reports they receive they take seriously. I then told him my name, and he said he then remembered me when I attended the SkyWarn classes over a year ago, and in fact, told me where I lived! So, I know he really DID remember me. I was impressed with his openess in regards to the acceptance of storm CHASERS. So I guess every office does things differently, but here in SC, the chasers are NOT dissed like some other places.

*EDIT* The reason I x'd out the last four numbers was because this number is only for spotters, that they have an ID profile on. When I asked him about the chaser numbers, he said to use the pther number, but only because the spotters have an ID profile that lets them know they are trained. He DID say howver, that he welcomed ALL reports from chasers, and that he welcomed our help...so

It is very encouraging to hear that. It is great to hear that this office takes all reports seriously. I have studied this thread immensely, and have come to some thoughts that I wish to share with all of you.

1. There is a concencus that many NWS offices do take reports seriously. See the above post, and other posts from Rick Smith, etc.

2. There is also a concencus that at least a few NWS offices ignore or take lightly chaser accounts, or brush off said accounts.

3. The reasons are apparently because of NWS concerns regarding knowledge due to the wide variety of storm chasers, from Newbies to Veterans. There is no uniformity.

4. Among storm spotters, there is uniformity in training and certification. Undoubtably this is the reason why NWS generally prefers spotter reports over chaser reports, regardless of the experience of the chaser, unless the NWS has established an individual chaser's reputation.

5. The answer then, has to do with:

a: Establishing a uniform standard for chasers to report to NWS.
i. This would ONLY pertain to chasers who wish to report to the NWS. This is NOT a certification for people to CHASE, just to REPORT.

This uniform standard can be accomplished by:

1. Certification for REPORTING of severe weather. NOT Certification to chase.

Anyone can chase. But I believe that the National Weather Service would accept chaser reports with less hesitation if they are Certified Reporters.

Such a certification could be:

1. The attendance of a skywarn class, online or in person.
2. The passing of a special-made test designed for chasers and "mobile spotters" to confirm the knowledge of the chaser to the NWS.
3. Certified Reporters could receive a special call number much like spotters.
4. Certified Reporters could have access to the spotter numbers and possibly even skywarn nets (I might be dreaming here )

This is MY take of potential solutions. I do not see what all the discussion here merits if a solution isn't presented, a Plan A or a Plan B, unless all we want to do is grumble about something that we cannot change. Unless of course none of this is real or a problem, and is actually 100% hyperbole. I hope I have presented some food for thought, though it will probably not go anywhere at all. At least I feel I did my part in attempting to offer a solution.

 

[Willie Dines]

That's kinda similar to what I had been thinking of before, but I feel that your idea would be more effective, not just for chasers, but for everyone

I feel, that if all the veteran and well experienced chasers, went through the certification process of being a registered chaser with Skywarn, NWS, etc, then that would be less hassle for the chasers who are able to give, good detailed and accurate information about any impending severe wx , and as we all know, the sooner the warnings go out, the better chance of saving more lives

What about if we opened a thread and maybe a poll, where all the members on here, can post up suggestions of a type of system, that can be set up, that will have both chasers and spotters part of the same system, where they can all register with the NWS/Skywarn, etc, and post up suggestions and ideas as to how to take it forward, in a positive manner, that can only make things better for everyone

What would do you think, Jeff?

Willie

 

[Jeff Miller]

Willie,

I prefer to use the word "Certified Reporter".

The reason why is because some NWS mets have said, even in this post, that they value reports from everyone. Chasers, Spotters, the Public, whoever is there when severe weather strikes. My take is, if they can legitamately pass a certification test that qualifies them to make reports to the NWS, then it would be win-win for all parties involved.

One may ask what is the difference between a "Certified Reporter" and a Skywarn Spotter?

Not everyone wants to spot. Chasers wish to be mobile. There are also weather enthusiasts out there with great knowledge that may be at work, etc... that cannot chase, or spot, but yet are knowledgable enough to understand what is happening and report accurately.

One may ask what about Law Enforcement? Absolutely, they can be valuable in the warning process, however, they are not always in the right place at the right time, and there simply may not be enough depending on the locality to make a report that can affect the warning decision process. The more the better.

I do not support a Chaser Certification program whatsoever that would require one to be certified to chase. This is just for reporting, in my general idea.

I failed to recognize others for thinking along these same lines, looking through this thread. I really believe that -- if we can somehow cut through a million pounds of red tape -- that maybe this will be a great benefit to those who report and those who receive alike.

 

[Willie Dines]

Ahh yes, I see what you mean now and yes, I would definitely go with that, it makes more sense to have "Certified Reporters", and as you say, it would save alot of time and money on the old red tape carry on

Yes, I would definitely agree with that

Willie

 

[William Rayner]

I'm a little late jumping into this really great flame war, but I want to make a few comments about Dave D's remarks a few days ago about dewpoint ignorance.
Well, gee whiz, Dave, I must have been putting gas in the rental car when the dewpoint class was being held. This will be my 18th year of chasing, and I don't believe I've ever awakened in my motel room a single morning and wondered what the "expected dewpoint high for that day" was.
Venturing out into severe weather has nothing to do with dewpoint numbers or any of the techno-gibberish the "seasoned chasers" like to prattle about. Rather, it's about being aware of where you are and what's going on around you. Those of us who have to fly thousands of miles just to chase for only 2 weeks don't have the luxury of being in the belly of the beast and can jump in the truck any time of the year at the first dewpoint alert. But I do know how to navigate around the SPC site. I can read a convective map, I know what the dryline is and, oh boy, I can recognise a warning box when I see it.
As for reporting tornadoes, which is what this thread is about -- let's remember that some of us aren't equipped to call anything in. As one respondent to this thread said, "almost or every chaser out has ham or a scanner." Well, I have news for you, sonny.
I will have a laptop, a wx radio and a GPS device in my rental car this spring. No ham radio, no scanner, no mobile net hookup, and definitely no cellphone (not with those roaming charges staring me in the face). So what do we interlopers from out of town do -- drop the chase and dash off to find a payphone so we can do our "civic duty"? And a wireless laptop is no help in the middle of Dandelion County, Kansas, or wherever.
It is obvious, however, that this spotters vs. chasers vs. NWS jerks is a very tangled mess of office politics, turf war and personalities. To me, a spotter is part of the passing scenery, like a barn or an abandoned well. He (or she) isn't much of help when my target is a wall cloud starting to form five miles down the road, so if the spotter wants to wait until the tornado drops a barn on him (or her), by all means, report it in whatever politically correct method which obtains at the time.
For the rest of us, keep trying to report severe weather if we have the time and the equipment -- but work hard meanwhile to devise a better system that satisfies everybody and saves lives.

 

[Mike Peregrine]

To me, a spotter is part of the passing scenery, like a barn or an abandoned well.

I'm sorry to get off topic in my own thread, but this is perhaps one of the most hysterically funny lines in the whole show. This post was just too good to pass up. I almost want to frame it and hang it on a wall.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Venturing out into severe weather has nothing to do with dewpoint numbers or any of the techno-gibberish the "seasoned chasers" like to prattle about.

I totally agree. If anything is overrated, it is the dewpoint. Who needs em!

 

[Willie Dines]

I'm sorry to get off topic in my own thread, but this is perhaps one of the most hysterically funny lines in the whole show. This post was just too good to pass up. I almost want to frame it and hang it on a wall.

lol, I gotta admit that I'm not one for looking at dew points, etc, anymore, I was at one time, but then I decided that I would much rather go by experience, knowledge of what patterns to look for, and instincts , as I feel that these can easily be every bit as effective, as using alot of hi-tech equipment , but at the same time, I'm still open minded to forecasting, as a whole because it's good to be able to kinda compare notes, as it were, with what the forecasts are showing at the time

I can understand that alot of chasers/spotters/meteorologists would argue that you need some kind of ability in forecasting to be a successful chaser, but I feel that it's more of a case, that if you know what it is you're looking for, then you will know how to find it, reguardless of your methods

Willie