Rant from a long time chaser: No lessons from El Reno?

[David Reimer]

There will be no ire from legislators. Maybe first responders, but we are all paid to do a job. Theirs is to respond to emergencies. Mine is to fix computers. If they have to clean up a mangled mess of my car because I got too close and munched by the tornado, so be it. I'm not sure how that's any different than any other death by tornado. Is it just OK to be ignorant and die in your normal stupid boring life routine by a tornado but not OK to do it if you know better? i guess I don't see your point.

Legislators don't care. Dan wrote a great article - Nobody cares http://stormhighway.com/blog/aug0108a.php And he's right. Nobody cares. Chasers have been talking about legislation being written about them for years - but the fact of the matter is, NOBODY CARES. Stop thinking you are more important than you actually are because you aren't. I guarantee less than 1% of the people who actually saw the story about Barber County on the news in Wichita even remember it at this point. In one ear, out the other. It makes great sensationalist news stories. When it comes to actually writing legislation - you guessed it - NOBODY CARES.

I'm not close to any family and while my mom would probably be upset, eventually they would get over it. Friends would be tougher I'm sure, but hopefully they would throw a hell of a funeral (I want to be known for putting the FUN in funeral).

Fact of the matter is, I'm a lot more likely to die from complications from obesity than I am in a tornado, even if I get close on a regular basis.

You know me so this response shouldn't come as a shock. However most 'first responders' are volunteers out in the rural areas. I speak solely of firefighters and some EMTs. Just thought I'd throw that out there for accuracy.

As Scott Peake says... CONTINUE!

 

[Warren Faidley]

One thing is for sure... if you do nothing, nothing will happen. I don't think we expect every chaser to take a proactive stance. There is nothing wrong with that. If you speak up, you do risk a lot of negative feedback from other chasers and in some instances, attacks from a fan base that includes some insane and destructive people. I've had so many death threats, hacking events and doctored re-posts I simply ignore most of it now days. Most of it.

But a large part of today's problems began when the so-called veterans gave up. I went after TWC full bore after they treated the El Reno event like some badge of honor and even sent MB on a national tour. I found this offensive, given someone I highly respected was killed by the same storm. They threatened me, but I reminded them there was a thing called the First Amendment. I never heard back. I also blasted a few other chasers who used the event as some kind of sick promotional tool, feeding on the "death-related" publicity for personal PR.

The point here is that there ARE things you can do if you feel motivated. For example: Post the hell out of footage showing chasers or locals doing truly dangerous things. When you read articles or see television shows that misrepresent chasers, voice your concerns and set the record straight. Call chasers out on social media when they post hyped-up or inaccurate forecasts designed to scare people and generate likes or publicity. I have seen chasers from ST do this multiple times and good for them.

W.

 

[Todd Lemery]

It's a good thing there is a forum like Stormtrack for chasers of all kinds to be able to come in here and bitch about the things we don't like. I'm sure I'm not the only one on here who listens to what others are saying and thinks about, for instance, if anything I'm doing while driving is irritating or putting anyone else in danger. This forum at least is giving me a good reminder not to drive like a jackass. I love that pedal on my right foot and am not exactly famous for patience, so this helps remind me to think of others besides myself when I'm on the road. I actually feel better at the end of the day when nobody has felt the need to give me the one finger salute.

 

[Kevin Rimcoski]

Again with the driving lol. Mix driving with ignorance in chasing and it's definitely a bad mix.
Again driving itself has its own risks. We overlook them because we do it on a daily basis and we've become complacent. You'll always come across a jackass weaving in and out of traffic and flip you off when you've done nothing wrong

 

[rdale]

Kevin - we just need to find the forum where weaving jackasses congregate and tell them that flipping off passing cars while weaving is bad. Maybe record it and post on YouTube?

 

[Kevin Rimcoski]

Kevin - we just need to find the forum where weaving jackasses congregate and tell them that flipping off passing cars while weaving is bad. Maybe record it and post on YouTube?

Lmao, check the Honda forums

 

[Dan Robinson]

So, how many chasers do you all suppose we're dealing with that are giving the hobby a bad name? Maybe 5 or 10 out of 1000? I'm interested if we can actually quantify the problem. Especially since it's such a rarity to run into it in the field, at least for me.

 

[Ben Holcomb]

I still have a hard time believing that my actions are giving Warren Faidley a bad name. They really aren't, but it's interesting you think they are.

This is why getting close doesn't bother me so much - I was out doing maintenance on my car. Getting it ready for the next chase. Luckily I wasn't under my car when the ramp it was on crumbled to nothing. That would have been the end of me, that's for sure.

Let's not take ourselves too seriously and enjoy each day as it comes. Never know when something may happen to F it up.

 

[Tony Gilbert]

Admittedly, not had a chance to read all the posts here. Though I'm pretty much in agreement with most comments here i.e.. insane chasing anything tornadic after dark. In fact I have always wrapped in the chase at dusk with my prime aim to find the nearest (non roach haven) hotel to get my head down and plan for the next day. Having said that, a route to the nearest hotel can sometimes be 100 miles if you are unlucky. If the storm system has morphed into an MCS then you could unintentionally find yourself surrounded by nocturnal tornadic storm cells! The main point is that it is already hard enough negotiating traffic, blinding rain and big hail cores. Why make life any harder and deliberately put yourself in harms way?

PS. As I acquire more experience over the years, (and yes we never stop leaning) I tend to want to drive less at night to get in position for the next day. My alternative (and it works) ; Get your head down as early as practicable and get an early morning call. You will cover much more distance in daylight hours, less tired and put yourself at less risk to get to the next target zone.

 

[Paul Knightley]

There's quite a few people who 'don't care' posting in this thread - if no-one cares, no-one should be posting!

It is true that if people want to chase in a manner which others might think as 'reckless' or whatever they can - people are free to chase as they like, providing they're within whatever laws might apply. Should they? Well, hopefully everyone here is a grown up and so can make their own personal choices. Don't get defensive over it, though - just get on with it, if that's what you want to do.

 

[Robert Forry]

Let's not take ourselves too seriously and enjoy each day as it comes. Never know when something may happen to F it up.

Truth, Ben! And real words to live by everyday man..

 

[Stan Rose]

So, how many chasers do you all suppose we're dealing with that are giving the hobby a bad name? Maybe 5 or 10 out of 1000? I'm interested if we can actually quantify the problem. Especially since it's such a rarity to run into it in the field, at least for me.

Good question, Dan. Personally, I'm less worried about the number of 'bad apples' and just in general worried about the shear numbers--as I said previously I'm aware there's not much I can do about it other than whine on ST, but that doesn't make it any less of an issue. And of course, if you multiply any number in a group the number of bad actors is going to rise along with the overall number, as a percentage. I'm sure you'd agree that the number of chasers is wayyy more than 1000. But if we use 1000 as a benchmark for percentages, I think it's more than 5 or 10. It isn't a 'rarity' for me to see bad behavior from chasers, but I guess that depends on how you classify it, and your level of tolerance. And of course, it only takes the actions of a few to tarnish the reputations of a group. Rdale doesn't care--I do, though I admit there's not a heck of a lot I can do about it. As for the number--I'll get back to you on that after my measly chase time this Spring; might as well tally up some numbers while im on the road

 

[Stan Rose]

... I was out doing maintenance on my car. Getting it ready for the next chase. Luckily I wasn't under my car when the ramp it was on crumbled to nothing. That would have been the end of me, that's for sure.
...

Geez, Ben--some friendly advice: let some one else work on your car! I don't want to have to read some bad news about you here on ST

 

[Kevin Rimcoski]

Haha Ben I can work on your car for you

 

[Tim Paitz]

So, how many chasers do you all suppose we're dealing with that are giving the hobby a bad name? Maybe 5 or 10 out of 1000? I'm interested if we can actually quantify the problem. Especially since it's such a rarity to run into it in the field, at least for me.

I believe on one of your blogs you stated that driving is still the most dangerous aspect of storm chasing. I can't find that one but correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[Tim Paitz]

I still have a hard time believing that my actions are giving Warren Faidley a bad name. They really aren't, but it's interesting you think they are.

This is why getting close doesn't bother me so much - I was out doing maintenance on my car. Getting it ready for the next chase. Luckily I wasn't under my car when the ramp it was on crumbled to nothing. That would have been the end of me, that's for sure.

Let's not take ourselves too seriously and enjoy each day as it comes. Never know when something may happen to F it up.

Exactly. No one knows when their time's up and no one can control it. If it's their time, then it's their time. If i go out in a tornado or get struck by lightning, then so be it (obviously i don't want that to happen but you get the picture). Basically, whatever happens happens whether or not we're in control.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I believe on one of your blogs you stated that driving is still the most dangerous aspect of storm chasing. I can't find that one but correct me if i'm wrong.

Yes - that would be on my chasing FAQ: http://stormhighway.com/chasingfaq.php#2 Driving is definitely still the biggest risk to chasers (it has taken more lives than tornadoes). My main fear with driving isn't other chasers though, it's something like an accident on the interstate on the way to the target, or some sudden 90 degree turn or road ending that the map doesn't show.

Again - did you guys watch my dashcam videos of Bennington and Rozel? It's all right there. I'm a little annoyed that this discussion is even continuing when many of the basic premises of the argument against the chase community are demonstrably false. I can't do much more than post actual video of *entire* storm intercepts. If that doesn't convince the critics and chicken littles, what will?

At this point, I'm more worried about the irrational fears, refusal to look at the evidence and exaggerations that I see in this thread and in the media than I am about actual chasers. Now *that* is a real and credible threat.

I'm at the point now where I want to say that no opinion is valid without entire-chase video to back it up.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I've updated the list of full-chase timelapses available for viewing on Youtube on my original blog post:

http://stormhighway.com/blog2015/april2815a.php

These include chases in and outside of Kansas on both big days and some of the more mediocre days. If you have any video documentation of entire chase events, please let me know so that I can include them. To be fair and balanced, this includes days where there is a lot of chaser traffic! I want to show that not only is heavy chaser traffic a rare thing, but that when it does happen, it isn't anywhere near as bad as alleged.

I'm waiting for the critics to point out in those videos the examples of widespread and egregious chaser behavior that warrants outrage, legislation or concern for the future of the hobby. Here's a hint for those who don't want to sift through all of the videos: you won't find any.

 

[Stan Rose]

Honestly, Dan, I can't see how the videos are able to conclusively demonstrate anything. They're not pointed every direction and in 3D. The time lapse speeds up the experience, but it certainly doesn't help document chaser behavior IMO. Just look at the arguments that ensue from police videos right now--and that's just the videos that purport to actually show something happening! Short of seeing the TIV plow head-on into your dashcam, I'm not sure we can see anything, even if there's something to be seen... But to be clear, I aint saying the sky is falling, either.

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

If you have any video documentation of entire chase events, please let me know so that I can include them. To be fair and balanced, this includes days where there is a lot of chaser traffic! I want to show that not only is heavy chaser traffic a rare thing, but that when it does happen, it isn't anywhere near as bad as alleged.

Though I don't know how it helps - its just a typical chase of a marginal target that didn't bring crowds. I will dig through my dash cam archive, I am pretty sure I have some footage of cheese convergences. For example, I know that I have video of the fun mini convergence in Medicine Lodge. Which was pretty organized in my opinion, and did not impact the chase at all, that we did have the sheriff yelling at us.

 

[Brett Roberts]

Honestly, Dan, I can't see how the videos are able to conclusively demonstrate anything. They're not pointed every direction and in 3D. The time lapse speeds up the experience, but it certainly doesn't help document chaser behavior IMO. Just look at the arguments that ensue from police videos right now--and that's just the videos that purport to actually show something happening! Short of seeing the TIV plow head-on into your dashcam, I'm not sure we can see anything, even if there's something to be seen... But to be clear, I aint saying the sky is falling, either.

I've chased at least a dozen days each spring for the past 5+ years, mostly centered on the popular southern Plains region, and I largely agree with Dan: genuinely reckless chaser behavior has been fairly rare, in my experience.

Some of the more common annoyances include: people and tripods in (or at least too close to) the road, chase vehicles driving under the speed limit on highways with a long line of other chasers lined up behind them, and chase vehicles parked partially on the road in situations where there's clearly too much moving traffic in the vicinity to get away with it (even briefly). To be frank, chase tour vans seem to account for a lot more than their fair share of these annoyances, at least in my experience (but that's a topic for another thread next off-season ). Among "regular" chasers, these incidents certainly don't appear rampant, relative to the total number on the roads. And when it comes to completely blatant disregard for others -- excessive speed when other chasers are around, weaving in and out of traffic dangerously, passing uphill on two-lane roads, etc. -- I very rarely see it at all. To be sure, I have seen it, but we're talking once or twice a year. I think a lot of non-chasers, armchair chasers, and very casual/infrequent chasers see or hear about one or two such incidents and then blow it out of proportion just because drama is entertaining when you're stuck at home. Separately, some veterans (or others who have a tough time accepting the recent explosion in chasing's popularity) may tend to hone in on any such cases out of sheer frustration and longing for the old days.

I find Dan's videos compelling. It's true that they don't "prove" anything, per se, especially since none of the days he posted are known for being particularly epic chaser convergence episodes. Rather, I think they illustrate the point that egregious misbehavior is rare, if he doesn't capture any cases of it in his sample of several fairly big days. If you specifically look for it on the biggest convergence day each year -- i.e., 14 April 2012 or 19 May 2010 -- you're sure to find it. Whether that amounts to a crisis is a matter of opinion, I suppose.

 

[Sean Ramsey]

My closest experience was this guy on the dirt road near Aetna that day, driving on a super muddy road and the guy guns it and passes us on the right side and we were just trying to stay on the road. He really wanted to get to that tornado that was to the east of us. Funny thing, I saw him again in Texas on the way to Dublin. Can't forget a car like that lol.

 

[Kevin Rimcoski]

My closest experience was this guy on the dirt road near Aetna that day, driving on a super muddy road and the guy guns it and passes us on the right side and we were just trying to stay on the road. He really wanted to get to that tornado that was to the east of us. Funny thing, I saw him again in Texas on the way to Dublin. Can't forget a car like that lol.

Almost looks like he couldn't stop and was having as hard a time as you...so his only way out was getting around you
Clearly going a bit fast for those roads...again 4WD and AWD do NOT give you traction at speed, only help traction from a stop. The only thing that makes a difference is tires

 

[Kevin Rimcoski]

No one has a sense of value for anything. Whether it's your life, someone else's, value of time or relationships. That's something I've noticed over years and sounds like Shane touches on it as well

 

[Chad M]

In the three days I have been out this year, I've only noticed a single car that did not completely pull off the road. It's was on the storm by Pampa/Wheeler.

The other 100 or however many cars were completely pulled off the road, so I figured this one car was either a jerk or an idiot. I happened to pass the same car doing it twice, so I know it wasn't a honest mistake.