Rant from a long time chaser: No lessons from El Reno?

[Warren Faidley]

I have nothing against night time chasing, especially given I started my career from shooting lightning. I generally turn to spotter mode at night if I'm near a major city like AMA.

This really comes down to experience and love of life. The biggest problem is that nighttime chasing usually involves multiple storms that initiated earlier in the day, so getting around safely involves experience and using radar in a constructive manner. My closest calls have been at night. Not because I was trying to get stupid close, but because the visual part of chasing was lost. I once waited in Shamrock, TX too long based on (ancient) radar and was blasted by rock-filled inflow while exiting east on I-40 with a tornado just behind me. Some close shaves are part of chasing and cannot be eliminated unless you want to chase from 10 miles away. The difference is placing yourself in danger because you don't give a S#!$ and want to push the limits for hair-brained reasoning and thrills vs. the times naturally occurring events happen because of unplanned events like equipment failures, road issues, splitting storms, etc.

W.

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

OK, several replies were 'I know what I am doing'. Gee, do you think Tim Samaras and crew knew what they were doing?

I imagine they did -- they knew they were doing things that almost no other chasers were doing. Really dangerous things. The number of people who make a regular habit of trying to get within 45 seconds of being run over by a rainwrapped wedge are a very small segment of the chase community.

Knowing what you are doing matters a lot -- but also knowing that knowing what you are doing matters logarithmically less the closer you get to the HP rain-wrapped tornado probably matters more. Still, it seems like an exercise in futility to stamp feet and shout at the clouds because other people do this. Yeah, it's pretty risky. So is trying to climb Annapurna I or fly to the ISS, but hey, guess what, people are going to do it.

 

[Matthew Crowther]

It is a matter of what your chase goals are. Mine is solely to get great storm images. So if a storm is HP, I almost always do back off a few miles knowing I might miss a tornado, but for example with the last situation in TX, to my mind the most striking images by far were the ones that captured the incredible multi tiered structure, I would take that view any day of the week over a closer encounter with a poor-contrast wedge, especially if it is at night. When not chasing and watching live streams I am constantly thinking hey why are you still driving???? That structure is amazing, pull over and enjoy it!

 

[Stan Rose]

I imagine they did -- they knew they were doing things that almost no other chasers were doing. Really dangerous things. The number of people who make a regular habit of trying to get within 45 seconds of being run over by a rainwrapped wedge are a very small segment of the chase community.

Knowing what you are doing matters a lot -- but also knowing that knowing what you are doing matters logarithmically less the closer you get to the HP rain-wrapped tornado probably matters more. Still, it seems like an exercise in futility to stamp feet and shout at the clouds because other people do this. Yeah, it's pretty risky. So is trying to climb Annapurna I or fly to the ISS, but hey, guess what, people are going to do it.

I hear you Ryan--but there is a significant distinction. The people in the ISS or climbing Annapurna (a dream of mine BTW as I used to peak-bag) only affect themselves or partners with their actions. If the person who wants to get close to the EF-5 drives like a maniac down the wrong side of the road and passes me or cuts me off at 100 mph to get to their 'goal'--that's affecting me.

 

[Kevin Rimcoski]

I hear you Ryan--but there is a significant distinction. The people in the ISS or climbing Annapurna (a dream of mine BTW as I used to peak-bag) only affect themselves or partners with their actions. If the person who wants to get close to the EF-5 drives like a maniac down the wrong side of the road and passes me or cuts me off at 100 mph to get to their 'goal'--that's affecting me.

Yes but it doesn't have to be driving towards a tornado. If there's no storms, people are still driving like that.

Maybe one day soon I'll have a dash cam and throw a video or two up of some of the craziness you see in Tucson.

 

[Ben Holcomb]

Not gonna be a hypocrite, Ben, cause ive lost windshields and sped, but can you reconcile these two statements fro me?

Our definition of safe is different I guess. Bubble boy safe I was not - on the edge of death or serious injury? Not even close. On the flip side, I'd feel less safe riding a bicycle down the side of a road wearing a helmet. Something that some do for health reasons.

The worst that could have happened is that all my windows blew in and glass was everywhere. I had safety goggles in the car and actually put them on (@Adam Lucio can be heard making fun of me in his video) when shards of glass started falling in. Did I feel unsafe? Nope. It's a calculated risk. I could have easily pulled over to the side of the road, put my car in park and gotten under the middle of my roof between my seats if all the windows smashed in and hail was falling into the car. Maybe I ended up with bruises or even broken bones, but that'd be a hell of a story.

There will always be outlier cases. You can be prepared to climb mount everest beyond a doubt, but there's always risk - Look at this past week. Large earthquake causes avalanche and it kills people. I would liken that to May 31, 2013 in the chaser world. Everyone was not prepared for what the beast could do. Same with Everest. If I hit a fringe case like that and die, so be it. You can go to your boring job and come home to your fat annoying wife and kids you hate and have to sit through their stupid baseball games and do it over every day until you die living the "American Dream". I'm going to get out there and do things. If one of them happens to kill me, at least I lived a good life.

I will still agree with Shane that driving is the most dangerous part. Look at the late Andy Gabrielson - Guy was close to every tornado it seemed like, and yet he died because some jackass driving drunk down the Turner Turnpike smashed into him head on at 80 MPH. So you enjoy your boring no risk taking lives, I will live on the edge.

 

[Kevin Rimcoski]

^ exactly my point and what I've been telling my mom and fiance, Ben

Everyone has different styles of chasing and what works with one person, it may not work with another. They'll find it irresponsible, dangerous, crazy, stupid, you name it. We've seen it in this thread
Some like to get up close to the tornadoes. Yes anything can happen as we've seen a few years ago even if you think you know what you're doing. Some people chase solely for lightning and structure. ..everyone's just got their own thing. It's nobody's business to tell someone else how they can or can't do something. You have your life to live, they have theirs. Don't go in and tell someone how they can or can't live. It's not anyone's place

And like you said Ben, I agree with you. If you die doing something you love then it's just that. Paul Walker even said himself that of speed kills him one day don't cry as I was smiling the whole time. That was what he loved, he loved his cars, he loved speed, it's sad he died especially since he wasn't even driving, but he had fun. He was doing what he loved

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

I hear you Ryan--but there is a significant distinction. The people in the ISS or climbing Annapurna (a dream of mine BTW as I used to peak-bag) only affect themselves or partners with their actions. If the person who wants to get close to the EF-5 drives like a maniac down the wrong side of the road and passes me or cuts me off at 100 mph to get to their 'goal'--that's affecting me.

That's fair enough, but then that's not so much a chase risk that comes from being too close to the Finger of God's Suck Zone as it is a typical "driving near douche-bags" risk. And I'm all for recognizing the driving risk -- unless you climb mountains or radio towers or rush into burning buildings on a regular basis, driving is by far the most dangerous activity most of us will ever do in our lives, and we do it on a daily basis. (Unless you count smoking, not exercising, eating lots of sugar, and being obese as activities -- but I think of those kind of things as being more lifestyle choices than activities, and the risks are cumulative, not sudden.) Getting up in the notch doesn't put other chasers in any danger, it's all personal danger that you are assuming yourself, and statistically it's a pretty small danger, considering that in 50 years of chasing getting up in the notch has only killed one crew. Maybe if there is a convergence in the notch there could be a danger to others, but that's kind of a self-selected danger, and one you can usually see happening before you are in it if you watch Spotter Network. See 30 dots on a one lane rural road in the notch? Think really hard before you drive into that. And know that if you do, you are as much part of the problem as a victim if things go south.

 

[Jeff Duda]

OK, several replies were 'I know what I am doing'. Gee, do you think Tim Samaras and crew knew what they were doing?

I think this comment alone could spin-off an entirely separate thread. To an extent, I think they did know what they were doing. In fact, I think they were among the most experienced and intuitive of all storm chasers. However, I think they did make a mistake by continuing east when they suspected they were north of the tornado and when they experienced very poor visibility. They probably knew that they were taking a huge risk, but were willing to accept that risk for the chance of popping out of the rain just northeast/north of the tornado to get a great view and perhaps even make a play on obtaining some sort of observations. So in that sense (knowing that there is considerable risk but accepting that risk), I think they knew what they were doing.

If you want to delve into semantics of what it means to truly "know what one is doing," that's fine. I'm sure we would get a range of opinions on the matter. However, I don't think that question is a "yes or no"/"black and white" issue as it sounds like you were phrasing it to be.

 

[Kevin Rimcoski]

In those 50 years of chasing, that storm was also its own breed
How many of you were expecting the tornado to suddenly expand that fast and that wide? Obviously even twistex didn't becaise they wouldn't have been there. The tornado didn't act like what you're all used to seeing, that's for sure.

 

[Stan Rose]

Our definition of safe is different I guess. Bubble boy safe I was not - on the edge of death or serious injury? Not even close. On the flip side, I'd feel less safe riding a bicycle down the side of a road wearing a helmet. Something that some do for health reasons.

The worst that could have happened is that all my windows blew in and glass was everywhere. I had safety goggles in the car and actually put them on (@Adam Lucio can be heard making fun of me in his video) when shards of glass started falling in. Did I feel unsafe? Nope. It's a calculated risk. I could have easily pulled over to the side of the road, put my car in park and gotten under the middle of my roof between my seats if all the windows smashed in and hail was falling into the car. Maybe I ended up with bruises or even broken bones, but that'd be a hell of a story.

There will always be outlier cases. You can be prepared to climb mount everest beyond a doubt, but there's always risk - Look at this past week. Large earthquake causes avalanche and it kills people. I would liken that to May 31, 2013 in the chaser world. Everyone was not prepared for what the beast could do. Same with Everest. If I hit a fringe case like that and die, so be it. You can go to your boring job and come home to your fat annoying wife and kids you hate and have to sit through their stupid baseball games and do it over every day until you die living the "American Dream". I'm going to get out there and do things. If one of them happens to kill me, at least I lived a good life.

I will still agree with Shane that driving is the most dangerous part. Look at the late Andy Gabrielson - Guy was close to every tornado it seemed like, and yet he died because some jackass driving drunk down the Turner Turnpike smashed into him head on at 80 MPH. So you enjoy your boring no risk taking lives, I will live on the edge.

Hmmm...fair enough Ben, thanks for your response. Are you aware of who you are addressing though, when you refer to their "boring" risk-free lives? Is it your loved ones? I scuba dive, hang glide, mountain climb, and chase and even I found that a bit much

 

[Warren Faidley]

The age old problem with those who want to chase like morons for absolutely no legitimate reason is that people forget that they are doing it on public roads, not a closed course. I like watching extreme sports like the X-Games because it's a crazy pursuit in a closed arena. If someone wants to drop a snowmobile on top of them, so be it.

This is about the other people who use the highways (like your family and friends) and the public servants who have to risk their lives to come and haul you to the hospital or the morgue. I'm at a lost trying to understand any argument supporting such negligent behavior.

W.

 

[Kevin Rimcoski]

Ya but the same can be said for those who sky dive or rock climb. They enjoy it whatever their reasoning is. If their parachutes don't open or get tangled, slip off the climb and die someone still has to go get your body. The only difference is there's no cars involved

 

[Adam Lucio]

What did we learn from El Reno? Not a damn thing. There wasn't anything to learn. Anyone who didnt already know that tornadoes are unpredictable, can change size/shape/speed and kill you shouldn't even be registered on this forum let alone out in the field pursuing severe weather. El Reno was just a bitch-slap of reality. Anything that gets learned from that will be the result of years of meteorological studying, and have to do with the actual meteorology of the event, not the storm chasing culture. So when i hear "didn't you learn anything from El Reno" I get a twitch in my eye. No, I didn't learn squat from El Reno.

I was also one of the chasers doing the tango in the hook for most of Sunday. I saw structure, awesome hail and some HP tornadoes that many others didn't. It's not about one-upping anyone. It's about my strange obsession with violent weather and wanting to experience it, as well as being the best chaser I can be. Plus, actually BEING there, it was apparent the storm was having trouble getting completely organized in the low levels beyond a large wall cloud, all the tornadoes were weak. Those uber duber scary radar velocities you are looking at are over 1000 feet high in the storm. What we were seeing on the ground was entirely different.

That being said, chasing at night is pretty lame overall, I got bored with squinting to see things between lightning flashes quicker than some, and decided to just punch the core out of there and head for food, but if other people find enjoyment out of it hey its a free country, chase on.

Oh, and @Ben Holcomb looks ridiculous in goggles.

 

[Warren Faidley]

Hello fellow Tusconian... Not so. A skydiver or rock climber is likely to only kill themselves. EMS and LEO's are often required to drive through very hazardous weather to rescue people in a storm, usually with much less knowledge of the actual dangers than most chasers with experience and radar. El Reno was a good example when crews had to respond to TWC accident with additional storms moving in.

W.