rdale
EF5
I think the younger generation says "I"m going to live how I want, and as long as it doesn't impact you, you shouldn't care." Unsafe chasing impacts nobody but the chaser, so why should anyone else care?
Rant from a long time chaser: No lessons from El Reno?
- Thread starter Matthew Crowther
- Start date
James Gustina
Supporter
I think nobody caring in my age group is related to not caring about negative opinions on things that don't affect others even indirectly. Its both a good and bad thing.
In chasing terms, I don't particularly care for outside opinions on how I chase or how I forecast. I'll take advice if its constructive, but at the same time I don't care for strong black/white opinions on topics like this because let's face it, this is all subjective bull****.
In chasing terms, I don't particularly care for outside opinions on how I chase or how I forecast. I'll take advice if its constructive, but at the same time I don't care for strong black/white opinions on topics like this because let's face it, this is all subjective bull****.
Jason Boggs
EF5
Unsafe chasing impacts nobody but the chaser?? Really???? So I guess drinking and driving impacts nobody but the drunk huh? Pull that wool over someone else's eyes rdale.
Stan Rose
EF5
Was that a rhetorical question? Cause so far, we've seen the following answers:
1) It puts EM and responders at risk having to save the butts of the unsafe chaser
2) It puts you at risk if you are on the same road, due to reckless driving
3) It makes LE more likely to paint all chasers with the same brush and give all of us a harder time.
4) It casts a bad light over all chasers so that public opinion as a whole is lowered.
I'm sure I missed a few...
Warren Faidley
Supporter
I don't blame it all on a younger generation but I do think society views things a lot different today than yesterday. The tolerance bar is much higher today than it was 20 years ago. In the early days of chasing, if you did anything stupid (I should know) you were called on it right away and it made you a better chaser. And this was all done w/o social media. Now days, it's a free for all and anything goes including deceiving people on a large scale. That totally blows my mind as we use to say. I do have to agree that no one likely cares about yesterday's chaser convergence. By July, it will be old news. Chasing moves around too much to generally piss off one county sheriff for too long. I do believe that a major event involving chasers killing someone, or contributing to deaths, will change things dramatically. We use to wait for (and dread) the day when the first chasers would be killed. Now the waiting has begun for an event that indeed changes chasing, if it does at all.
W.
W.
Warren Faidley
Supporter
It also makes it more likely that law enforcement will begin mucking (e.g., blocking) traffic during a critical storm situation possibly placing any one of us in a dangerous situation. This is more likely than laws being passed ATM. I believe this has been an issue in the past -- in addition to law enforcement allowing certain "official" looking vehicles to pass.
W.
Sean Ramsey
EF4
Ultimately the legislation argument is an irrational fear, and it's only human nature that an event like El Reno starts fading and normalcy takes place. On an individual level, it doesn't matter to me who got close or what they are doing and I don't want what I do to be something that matters to anyone else. On a larger level though, I see interest in severe weather only growing not from just a chaser standpoint but from the media and legions of people on social media sharing and re-tweeting and being encouraged to take their own shots. From an interest standpoint, it's great. From a safety standpoint, not so much. More chasers only increases the odds of a traffic mishap, and possibly a storm mishap. Throw in some more aggressive chasing styles, up the risk. How does that affect anyone personally? No clue, it may not at all. It's not something I'm real keen on, but it's the way things are and until something happens and things change for one reason or another, it stays the same and I and others carry on as usual.
Stan Rose
EF5
Ryan brought up the Everest analogy earlier, and I think it's a great one cause it predicts what is going to happen with chasing. The Everest tragedy in 97 was the result of guides (with clients) pushing the limits due to the financial and reputation pressures of the biz, ignoring safe practices and therefore a bunch of climbers died. May have caused some guide services to tighten up on some of their safety practices, but it didn't prevent the same mistakes from happening again. And it certainly didn't dissuade the masses from wanting to summit--it took an earthquake to put an end to this season. Same thing will happen in chasing, it's inevitable with all the tours being run. The bigger question is what happens when massive traffic congestion blocks off the only escape route, and an EF-5 mows over hundreds (if not thousands) of chasers. I think that will happen eventually, maybe not this year or in the next 10 years, but it will happen. That will prompt some massive hindsight discussion, but hard to say where exactly it would lead.
James Gustina
Supporter
Its bound to happen eventually. Whether or not it happens in any of our lifetimes is another story. I honest to god don't think the next injuries or deaths we see are going to come from the recreational hobbyists that invest money into chasing (I.e. most of us on here). It'll likely be someone mimicking a chase style and not realizing the sheer amount of navigation work that goes into getting in and out safely. Whether or not its our responsibility to stop some local with a point and shoot from being a moron is a topic for another thread though.
rdale
EF5
Let's count the number of drunk driving deaths in one day and compare that to the number of chaser deaths in all of history. No wool there. Just facts.
Sigh... #1) How many responders have died due to unsafe chasers? 2) Reckless driving is illegal, so that's not at issue here. 3) Doubtful. Most LE are not brush painting chasers at all. More support chasers than arrest them. 4) As we've discussed countless times, the public doesn't give a crap. And even if they did - so what?
But let's wrap this all around. Let's go with Jason's idea that bad chasing is equivalent to drunk driving. Or your idea that it makes chasers look bad. WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT IT OTHER THAN BITCH ABOUT IT ON STORMTRACK? Nothing. Nada. Zilch. You can't stop Ben from wedge punching if that's what he wants to do. Sort of like me and TWC/AccuWeather. TWC will keep putting out TORCON no matter what the harm is to severe weather awareness, and AccuWeather will keep doing a 45 day forecast no matter what the harm is to public forecast awareness. At some point you gotta say - can't do a thing about it so just walk on by...
David Reimer
EF2
You know me so this response shouldn't come as a shock. However most 'first responders' are volunteers out in the rural areas. I speak solely of firefighters and some EMTs. Just thought I'd throw that out there for accuracy.
As Scott Peake says... CONTINUE!
Warren Faidley
Supporter
One thing is for sure... if you do nothing, nothing will happen. I don't think we expect every chaser to take a proactive stance. There is nothing wrong with that. If you speak up, you do risk a lot of negative feedback from other chasers and in some instances, attacks from a fan base that includes some insane and destructive people. I've had so many death threats, hacking events and doctored re-posts I simply ignore most of it now days. Most of it.
But a large part of today's problems began when the so-called veterans gave up. I went after TWC full bore after they treated the El Reno event like some badge of honor and even sent MB on a national tour. I found this offensive, given someone I highly respected was killed by the same storm. They threatened me, but I reminded them there was a thing called the First Amendment. I never heard back. I also blasted a few other chasers who used the event as some kind of sick promotional tool, feeding on the "death-related" publicity for personal PR.
The point here is that there ARE things you can do if you feel motivated. For example: Post the hell out of footage showing chasers or locals doing truly dangerous things. When you read articles or see television shows that misrepresent chasers, voice your concerns and set the record straight. Call chasers out on social media when they post hyped-up or inaccurate forecasts designed to scare people and generate likes or publicity. I have seen chasers from ST do this multiple times and good for them.
W.
But a large part of today's problems began when the so-called veterans gave up. I went after TWC full bore after they treated the El Reno event like some badge of honor and even sent MB on a national tour. I found this offensive, given someone I highly respected was killed by the same storm. They threatened me, but I reminded them there was a thing called the First Amendment. I never heard back. I also blasted a few other chasers who used the event as some kind of sick promotional tool, feeding on the "death-related" publicity for personal PR.
The point here is that there ARE things you can do if you feel motivated. For example: Post the hell out of footage showing chasers or locals doing truly dangerous things. When you read articles or see television shows that misrepresent chasers, voice your concerns and set the record straight. Call chasers out on social media when they post hyped-up or inaccurate forecasts designed to scare people and generate likes or publicity. I have seen chasers from ST do this multiple times and good for them.
W.
It's a good thing there is a forum like Stormtrack for chasers of all kinds to be able to come in here and bitch about the things we don't like. I'm sure I'm not the only one on here who listens to what others are saying and thinks about, for instance, if anything I'm doing while driving is irritating or putting anyone else in danger. This forum at least is giving me a good reminder not to drive like a jackass. I love that pedal on my right foot and am not exactly famous for patience, so this helps remind me to think of others besides myself when I'm on the road. I actually feel better at the end of the day when nobody has felt the need to give me the one finger salute.
Kevin Rimcoski
EF3
Again with the driving lol. Mix driving with ignorance in chasing and it's definitely a bad mix.
Again driving itself has its own risks. We overlook them because we do it on a daily basis and we've become complacent. You'll always come across a jackass weaving in and out of traffic and flip you off when you've done nothing wrong
Again driving itself has its own risks. We overlook them because we do it on a daily basis and we've become complacent. You'll always come across a jackass weaving in and out of traffic and flip you off when you've done nothing wrong
rdale
EF5
Kevin - we just need to find the forum where weaving jackasses congregate and tell them that flipping off passing cars while weaving is bad. Maybe record it and post on YouTube?
