Rant from a long time chaser: No lessons from El Reno?

[Joshua Nall]

Lanny, I obviously messed up. What I said was poorly worded, because the last thing I wanted to do is come across as attacking Randy. I've never met him, but know of him well enough to know that he is my kind of guy. It may help you to understand that John Wayne is essentially idolized around here and I am a fan. Sort of like Chuck Norris is to some. Its the fearless personality that is a draw. I'm a huge fan of Randy, and just to purposely overstate my point, I greatly admire Randy, I love Randy, his style and what he does, all of it.

I thought it was evident enough that what I was doing is addressing this now socially accepted practice of people (usually with an air of superiority) constantly saying what others should and shouldn't do... in the name of safety or the common good, or whatever. I pretty well read the whole thread straight through, so my tone was in response to the earlier posts, the OP and following posts all hi-fiving his comments. Chasing at night for instance..... I love photographing storms at night. I would love to get a nighttime tornado illuminated by some sort of outdoor lighting, street lights or what have you. I have several night time shots on my bucket list and always chase into the night, and I love it. And some people do not worry about the "what ifs" in life... what if a satellite, what if there's a traffic jam, what if the storm does this or that... what if my window gets busted. I worry about that stuff sometimes seems even more so lately, but I reckon most of those guys are smart enough to know that stuff, they just don't worry so much about it.

 

[Joshua Nall]

Marcus, I was really surprised when I saw you also mistook my purpose in mentioning Randy. Hope I cleared that up. And I didn't say everyone was jealous of Reed. There have been many posts on here over the years dripping with jealousy though. And he has been mentioned yet again. I get what is said about him hyping things, and what he says his purpose is with some of the stuff he does... I just figure most understand a lot of that is show. I mean he is a showman! He gets out there and does new and crazy stuff, and... he loves it, and he loves creating a show, and he is profiting from it. I don't see any real harm there. Even if he had of inherited a million.... I don't see how that changes anything. And I'm sure there is plenty I don't know, I'm just saying how it comes across with all the name calling and such. It's like there are some who are off in the shadows, not willing to do anything different or daring, certianly incapable of putting on a show for people, and they are all complaining about the guys actually out there.. doing what ever it is they are wanting to do! I mean it just seems weird to me that someone would even have the urge to say another person shouldn't drive their own car into hail. Just to reference one post in this thread.

 

[Kevin Rimcoski]

I've met reed not too long ago. He's pretty level headed and a pretty nice guy. He's just very very passionate about chasing and weather. I think part of his hyping is because of this...just gets overly excited lol

 

[David Drummond]

I'll just leave this here. Happened Tuesday evening east of Lubbock. I don't know which tour you were, but that was NOT cool! Next time pull over, let people pass then execute your 5 point turn in the hail. Texas plate with TESSA Sticker on left back window of at least one van.

 

[Stan Rose]

...I mean it just seems weird to me that someone would even have the urge to say another person shouldn't drive their own car into hail. Just to reference one post in this thread.

Maybe you're referring to a post I missed...I dunno. But I certainly never said that. I DID say I think it's stupid to drive an unprotected vehicle into baseballs for the purpose of getting 15 minutes of fame. But if that's your vice, have at it, man--just don't do it when someone elses safety is involved--like if a tour operator did that and someone was injured, im sure his attorneys would be oh-so-thankful. I also think silly/stupid behavior does cast a bad light on chasing/chasers in general. Do you agree, or do you not care? If the latter, fine, but I find that a bit 'weird'.

 

[Scott Taylor]

I'll just leave this here. Happened Tuesday evening east of Lubbock. I don't know which tour you were, but that was NOT cool! Next time pull over, let people pass then execute your 5 point turn in the hail.

Wow, definitely not cool... especially when there's a road off to their right they could have made use of instead of blocking traffic.

 

[Ben Holcomb]

Looking at the video @David Drummond posted is the kind of annoying stuff we need to stop. There is no reason they couldn't have pulled off onto that side road, or even better, waited and waived DD by. Yes, it only set him back 20 seconds, but be courteous and wait for traffic to clear first.

 

[Charles Peek]

I guess the thing I was thinking is that many adults do things on a continuous basis that they know is dangerous but they choose to do it anyway. While I never like to see someone get hurt or even killed, I hope our society never gets to the point that adults can't have the freedom to make decisions for themselves (within reason). How I want to chase is up to me and how others want to chase is up to them. Most are adults (I didn't say they always act that way) and should be free to get as close as they want or stay back as far as they want.

 

[Nathan Hoelting]

It seems to me that these days, poor driving and disregard for common sense are increasingly more dangerous than the actual storms. People can get as close as they want to a storm. Hell, strap your ass to a stake in the ground in the middle of the circulation if it suits you. I could care less, until they threaten to pass a law regulating storm chasing because of it. In recent years though, I've encountered an increasing frequency of people abandoning any and all rational thinking in the heat of the moment. Passing on blind hills and curves, standing in the middle of roads shooting video, pulling U turns in the middle of traffic, etc etc etc

I have no doubt, before long, somebody will be killed because they were acting like a moron and it will have nothing to do with how close they were to a tornado. Yes, it will always be a tragedy when a death occurs. We are all (99% anyway) really out there for our love of the raw power of nature. That said, I will not shed a tear for that first unlucky person who ends up under a bumper because adrenaline gets in the way of self preservation. All it takes is a little bit of common sense and just a bit of courtesy to take a lot of these unnecessary dangers out of the equation. I personally would love to see an online shaming of the chasers who are acting irresponsibly and risking not only their lives, but potentially others in their vicinity with their poor choices. Only downside to that is, anymore, you'd probably be taking more pictures of a**holes than storms.


+

 

[Joshua Nall]

Maybe you're referring to a post I missed...I dunno. But I certainly never said that. I DID say I think it's stupid to drive an unprotected vehicle into baseballs for the purpose of getting 15 minutes of fame. But if that's your vice, have at it, man--just don't do it when someone elses safety is involved--like if a tour operator did that and someone was injured, im sure his attorneys would be oh-so-thankful. I also think silly/stupid behavior does cast a bad light on chasing/chasers in general. Do you agree, or do you not care? If the latter, fine, but I find that a bit 'weird'.

Of course I care, but as has been talked about many times before and here again in this thread, it is the illegal stuff or stuff that annoys locals and law enforcement that matters, and I've had plenty to say about that in the past. Its not folks posting stuff on youtube or hyping, etc... And your idea of what is stupid or not is just your opinion, and it is your opinion that it casts a bad light on chasing. What about mountain bikers that do dangerous stunts with a camera on their helmet, then post them on youtube? Are they trying to get 15 minutes of fame or are they just videoing and sharing something that they love to do already? Not that anyone loves to get their window pounded by softballs.... but no one for sure knows when that is going to happen until it happens. In fact, finding really big hail is harder than finding tornadoes. It is more of a challenge. It is just as rewarding. I've never seen softballs. I can still remember when I saw a baseball hit the ground though, and drove over and picked it up. Also, I think the difference between how I look at it and some people look at it is I feel like most of these guys know what they are doing. Maybe not? I'm not really into the whole social side of chasing, have only about 20 friends on FB for example and most of them are very experienced. The last thing I want is for someone to get into a situation out of ignorance of the danger. But I realize I can't really do a lot about that either. Maybe that will clarify some of my earlier comments.

 

[Kat_H]

Some of the parallels between chasing and motorcycle riding are interesting. I've participated in a few forum discussions about helmet laws and why people choose to ride helmetless, or in jeans, or tennis shoes, etc, and what impact this has on riders in general.

Your average Joes and Janes have extremely poor risk assessment skills, especially the sub-25yo crowd. Given the likelihood of a motorcycle accident, the ease of wearing a helmet, and the consequences of an unprotected skull hitting pavement at speeds over about 35mph (death, paralysis, or severe brain damage), it boggles me that people ride helmetless. But so very many of them do it. Until they've been in enough hairy situations and survived, or they've been taught risk assessment (like in the military), people are going to do stupid stuff. I did my share of stupid stuff in my teens and 20's.

Chasing has a gentler margin for error than motorcycling, I think. Someone can screw up and sustain several thousands of dollars of damage to their car, but themselves be unharmed. If their pocketbook can sustain the hit, they might just go out and do it again, whether they're smart and have learned something and have a passion for chasing, or whether they're stupid, have learned nothing, and are doing it for 15 minutes of fame.

For the most part, motorcyclists who don't wear helmets and who make poor driving decisions don't bring harm to other people (other than the aforementioned families of the newly departed). Likewise with chasing. There's a saying in the MC community - "Ride your own ride." While I think policing the chasers who are parked hazardously is probably wise - they need feedback in order to change their behavior - beyond that, though they might lower the public's opinion of chasers, I don't know that anyone can really affect the fame-seeking ill-educated chasers.

I see jackass sportbike riders weaving through traffic at 25 over the limit and think, "those guys are giving the rest of us a bad rap." That behavior is completely unsafe because it spooks other drivers, and who knows what they might do in response. It's not an effing video game. Nothing I can do about it other than get a plate number and report it to police, along with dashcam video if I have it. But if someone chooses to ride without a helmet? Dumb choice, but their choice in states without helmet laws.

 

[Kevin Rimcoski]

That makes a lot of sense ^

 

[Joshua Nall]

But if someone chooses to ride without a helmet? Dumb choice, but their choice in states without helmet laws.

I can agree with a lot of what you said, but it is this that gets me. It is the use of the word dumb and stupid and such that always comes up on these discussions and everyone just lets them pass. Maybe they just decided they didn't want to wear a helmet and it didn't have anything to do with their intellect. You know what's dumb is someone telling a big burly biker dude, wanting to get on a bike and ride with the wind in his hair, that he has to wear a helmet. The way people ok this is they say " well they probably just aren't smart enough or old enough or whatever to assess the risk." Some of the same stuff you said. But basically it is just one person telling another person what to do. "Ride your own ride" is a great saying. As I kid I sang a song that went like this.... "Row, row, row your boat." Yeah...., row YOUR boat. Don't go rowing other people's boat. And believe me I have to tell myself this all the time, because I still goof up all the time. And maybe I need to work on that next verse also... "Gently down the stream". I've done plenty of 180's since college on several topics because of this principal right here.

 

[Joshua Nall]

And I really need to say this for my own peace of mind. I think I understand why my original post was misunderstood, other than I was just wound up and not very "gentle". But I put in the "lol" and maybe folks thought I was lol at Randy or that he said that... But I was laughing because he said that about other chasers. He said that about me and most of you... I know I don't have what he has. I just don't have what it takes and I realize that... don't handle stressful situations so well. I found the whole video (It was their Pilger one I believe) to be very enjoyable. Everyone should look it up sometime if you haven't seen it. See most of yalls videos put folks to sleep... haha

 

[Matt Sellers]

Catching this two weeks after the fact. Many good points have already been made not only by Matt initially, but by David R., Ben, Joey, and several others regarding night chasing. I'm never one - nor ever will be one - to criticize how anyone chases. You want to chase at night - so be it. It's the chance we take going out there every time no matter the time of day. Dan R. also made a good point about supercells that were conducive for being safely-chased after sunset due to their classic / LP nature... I can add some of the 5.3.99 storms to that list.

Were those storms in north TX on Apr 26 dangerous to chase? To me - no worse so than any other. David R. made a good point about chasing them because of familiarity with the area. (I'm not as familiar with north TX roads. But come to Pueblo County, CO - if we ever get the right storm, I'm on that thing no matter the time of day. Actually Friday, May 8 was kind of like that.) And we have all made "mistakes" out there while driving - if you're claiming to be a "saint" in that regard, you're full of it.

Have we learned anything from May 31, 2013? Yeah. That it can happen to any of us no matter how safe we try to be out there. Tim, Paul, and Carl were among the best and safest chasers out there and got close routinely... the storm that day just had other ideas. We will always miss them, but always know that could be you, or I, or any other chaser out there.

Many great points made in the one hundred and sixty-four comments prior to mine. (And if I'm repeating anything said prior - please accept my apologies. Didn't get to the middle pages.) Cheers - see y'all near a meso sometime.

 

[Shane Adams]

And I really need to say this for my own peace of mind. I think I understand why my original post was misunderstood, other than I was just wound up and not very "gentle". But I put in the "lol" and maybe folks thought I was lol at Randy or that he said that... But I was laughing because he said that about other chasers. He said that about me and most of you... I know I don't have what he has. I just don't have what it takes and I realize that... don't handle stressful situations so well. I found the whole video (It was their Pilger one I believe) to be very enjoyable. Everyone should look it up sometime if you haven't seen it. See most of yalls videos put folks to sleep... haha

So what you're saying is, risking life and limb is a necessary component to make anything interesting enough to hold your attention for longer than a few seconds. This makes excellent sense when dissecting your post above the one I just quoted, where you "gently" chastise the poster for calling someone who rides a motorcycle without a helmet "dumb" or "stupid." Clearly you value a person'a right to be "dumb" or "stupid" over human life, because your position not only endorses a person's right to do whatever, but you come down on criticism of said behavior.

Some things people do that are risky ARE stupid. They'e stupid because they needlessly risk a person's LIFE. To anyone who values an individual's right to do whatever over ANYTHING, this comes across as crass. To people who understand that it's anyone's right to do whatever but value HUMAN LIFE over all things, they can simultaneously acknowledge that (1) it's a person's right to do whatever but (2) sometimes what they choose to do is STUPID.

The last comment about most people's videos putting folks to sleep was the nail in the coffin for me; it has to be daring, dangerous, life-threatening, otherwise the storms themselves just aren't interesting enough. I see right where you're coming from. I agree that it's anyone's right to do whatever. I disagree that it's harsh to call it stupid. And I could really care less if anyone dies while exercising their right to do whatever they wish. The right to risk one's life doesn't include the right to anyone's sympathy.

 

[Joshua Nall]

I came back from my first hurricane (back when hurricanes formed in the gulf, lol) and was all excited to show my family some video one evening... I had some pretty cool stuff I thought. Put them all smooth to sleep, lol. I'm serious! What Dan R. says is true... nobody really cares. I like it all, but for the average Joe watching video, up close near the action stuff is what keeps them interested. That is all I was saying. And I admit that I too like up close stuff more, just because you can see more power, and detail of what is going on. Randy's video is appealing to most anyone. The suspense of the tornado coming towards them and then more suspense when the tornado goes behind some trees there, but then emerges and the big limb falls. It's just a great capture of the force of nature, up close. You can put yourself in that position, and feel the excitement of the encounter. Of course anything can go horribly wrong. His tire could have fallen off. I just generally don't dwell on that sort of stuff. It has nothing to do with me not valuing human life! lol I wasn't scared for his life. It would be silly for me to worry about someone's life, when they aren't. Of course there are exceptions to this such as in a case where someone is genuinely ignorant of danger... or with mental illness and suicide and such, but I'm talking about just everyday normal adventurous people who go out and do life.

I admit it would be harder to have much sympathy for someone who is careless, but how do you define careless? I value a person's right to make their own choices in life, as long as it doesn't harm another. That is all. And I think people should be free to make choices without it being said they are dumb or stupid. We all take risks every day. It's just as likely that the next chaser death will be from a bolt of lighting. So we are all dumb for being anywhere near the storm? I put myself right in CGs all the time. So maybe I am careless? but I stay in my truck so maybe I'm not careless? See so much of it is point of view and opinion because we are all different.

 

[Hannah.Taylor]

This is my take on the matter.

If some dummy wants to push the envelope and kills himself, more power to him. It's really not our place to say what someone does is too far or not. Each person must make that decision for themselves. I personally don't want someone telling me how I can or can't chase, or how I should or shouldn't chase. I chase how I see fit, that's best for me and what I want to accomplish. I know the risks, I know the consequences.

Who the hell are we to judge those that push the envelope. Mind your own business and worry about YOURSELF and YOUR PARTY.

 

[Jake Orosi]

Meh. I'm just glad to read people coming clean about chasing close for the adrenaline rush, and laying off that "saving lives" BS. Seriously, the phrase "saving lives" still gives me heartburn whenever I see it. I am actually unwrapping a Tums right this moment.

 

[ChristianT]

For me I will post a little. I was out chasing on the 26th and though I was somewhat tempted to keep going on the cell that would eventually produce the tornadoes in Johnson County, I called it. I was in Granbury and didn't want to core punch. I rarely chase at night and when I have, I have not enjoyed it and been scared out of my mind by storms far weaker than the supercells that night. You can't see anything and just to much can go wrong. I did see the dots all around the circulations that night and after the NWS went out and looked at the tracks and rated the tornadoes, I think many of those chasers were very lucky as the tornadoes in Rio Vista were like El Reno, not in the width but they moved very strangely going in loops back the way they came. If those tornadoes had gone further south than they did into the main part of town, I suspect it could have been very bad for anybody around that area, not to mention the flooding that had reduced road options. I also saw a bit of reckless driving that was absolutely ridiculous on 66 east of Stephenville. People swerving to get pictures and abruptly stopping to pull of the road with no warning. Its not worth it. Even if you did get a few minutes of fame, hardly anybody cares outside a few minutes.