2011-05-22 Joplin, MO tornado thread

[STurner]

Joplin is a pretty good sized city and this was an extremely devastaing tornado and very deadly tornado. This is the type of tornado that people in extremely large midwestern cities such as Dallas are fearing is going to happen in their areas.

 

[PDailey]

Hate to ask this but...does this make it the single deadliest tornado in the past 64 years? (According to TWC a tornado obliterated Glazier, TX, killing 181 in 1947, as I recall.) It's fascinating to watch historic events, but not THESE types of historic events. And if this is the case, wonder how many on this board were even ALIVE in 1947, though I'm sure some were.

I've been searching for an ACCURATE list of deadliest tornadoes ever, but haven't found one yet. Was Glazier separate from Woodwood? I wish there was an official list somewhere. I think the 1896 St. Louis tornado killed 137 on the Missouri side, so the Joplin twister is likely to become the deadliest one in Missouri history.

Found this: http://www.epicdisasters.com/index.php/site/comments/the_deadliest_us_tornadoes/

It seems somewhat more inclusive of all events throughout history than other such lists I've found online. But it says Glazier, Kansas? Who knows.

 

[Mike Johnston]

Hate to ask this but...does this make it the single deadliest tornado in the past 64 years? (According to TWC a tornado obliterated Glazier, TX, killing 181 in 1947, as I recall.) It's fascinating to watch historic events, but not THESE types of historic events. And if this is the case, wonder how many on this board were even ALIVE in 1947, though I'm sure some were.

That 1947 event is more widely known as the Woodward, OK - Higgins, TX tornado. At any rate, the Joplin tornado death toll has surpassed such infamous events as Flint, MI and Waco, TX.

 

[Andrew Burnett]

Wiki is not always the best but it could give us a base for discussion,.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:25_deadliest_US_tornadoes

 

[Mike Peregrine]

I've been searching for an ACCURATE list of deadliest tornadoes ever, but haven't found one yet. Was Glazier separate from Woodwood? I wish there was an official list somewhere. I think the 1896 St. Louis tornado killed 137 on the Missouri side, so the Joplin twister is likely to become the deadliest one in Missouri history.

This was pretty informative too - http://www.weather.com/outlook/weat.../deadly-year-tornadoes-perspective_2011-05-23

 

[mikegeukes]

Until the Joplin, Missouri tornado, the last time there was a single tornado in the United States
that killed more than 100 people, was the F-5 Flint-Beecher tornado that happen in Michigan.
June 8, 1953, killed 116 people. http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dtx/1953beecher/

 

[Greg Higgins]

I'm going to throw another thought out there regarding the "social science issue". While I believe and there appears to be some evidence based science to back up warning methods and citizens, I think there also needs to be additional education regarding what exactly IS a "safe place / shelter". From what I have heard and read from Joplin last night and today, there have been a large number of fatalities and injuries in the "super box stores" (Walmart, Academy, Home Depot, Lowe's). Being a firefighter, we on a regular basis perform "fire incident planning" which includes evaluating how a fire will impact the building and construction. Simply put, these "super stores" are built as cheaply as the code allows and are NOT designed to do anything other than to cover the inventory. In fact, they tend to fall very rapidly when stressed (either from fire, wind, snow loads, etc.). I'm hoping that Tim Marshall might comment with his insight. Other occupancies that tend to be death traps are ANY building that covers a large area with the support coming from the walls (such as church's, auditoriums, gyms, etc.). All you have to do is look at pictures of these types of structures from previous years and you will note that these occupancies have worse damage as compared to other types of construction in the same impact area.Not only to people need to be aware of the warnings and heed the information, but they also need to be taught WHAT type of construction provides the best protection and which ones to avoid!! I betting right now that there will be lawsuits filed against some of these type stores for causing the death of a loved one secondary to the tornado itself. Thoughtful comments and discussion encouraged!

 

[MClarkson]

Does code require such buildings to at least have a safe room/cellar?

 

[PDailey]

I'm also concerned people still consider overpasses to be safe. On the Fox morning show today, that Steve Ducy guy said that getting under the overpass saved this one woman's life, which might have been the case that one time, but I just think it's wrong to get that misnomer started again.

 

[Scott Vanzandt]

Maybe Fox news needs to go back and look at what happened to those who saught shelter under overpasses during the May 3, 1999 tornado before they report.

 

[Bob Hartig]

Until the Joplin, Missouri tornado, the last time there was a single tornado in the United States
that killed more than 100 people, was the F-5 Flint-Beecher tornado that happen in Michigan.
June 8, 1953, killed 116 people. http://www.crh.noaa.gov/dtx/1953beecher/

Right. Since the Flint-Beecher tornado, no single tornado has passed the 100 mark for 58 years. I thought it would never happen again because of how much better our warning system is. But I was wrong. This year has been a tragic example of the limitations that system still faces.

Like other historic tornado events, the exact figure for the Flint-Beecher tornado is a bit uncertain, though 116 is often cited. As it stands, yesterday's event has met that number and will no doubt surpass it. It's hard to fathom. I've overnighted in Joplin, passed the town a number of times while headed out west, and spent several days there visiting a friend a few years ago. She no longer lives there, fortunately, but she told me today that she thought her old house lay in the damage path, and I'd imagine my lodging places did, too. I've never been to Birmhingham or Tuscaloosa, but Joplin hits home.

 

[Brian McWatters]

The audio recording from inside the Joplin Fastrip convenience store posted on YouTube is very chilling to hear. It really brings home the human toll of a violent tornado passage. I found it interesting though, because it seems to document the passage of the two "eyewalls" of the tornado. (At least that's my interpretation, feel free to chime in..) On the audio the tornado arrives at 2:14 with the first sound of tremendous rushing wind and crashing debris, followed by a period of intermittent thumps and wind noises while inside the tornado, and then the back eyewall passes at 3:06 in an even louder torrent of wind and debris. Note that similar eyewitness descriptions came out of Greensburg from people in their basements, but to my knowledge this is the first time something like this has been documented on tape.

Here is the link to the YouTube video for reference - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQnvxJZucds

The preliminary storm report said that the path width was estimated at three quarters of a mile. And the tornado warning issued at 5:48 PM said "TRAINED WEATHER SPOTTERS REPORTED A TORNADO NEAR EASTERN JOPLIN ... MOVING EAST AT 45 MPH." If that speed was correct, it would have taken about one minute for the tornado to move over a particular location near the center of the damage path.

 

[MClarkson]

I don't know how much to blame limitations of our current technology, complacency, the lack of armored rooms or cellars, or simply the inevitability of tornadoes striking more populated regions.

 

[rdale]

Does code require such buildings to at least have a safe room/cellar?

Not sure if they are required by every construction code, but I haven't been in one that doesn't have a storm saferoom that would hold most if not all of the people in the store at the time.

 

[Mike Moore]

I don't know how much to blame limitations of our current technology, complacency, the lack of armored rooms or cellars, or simply the inevitability of tornadoes striking more populated regions.

I totally agree. Moreover people tend to get complacent over time. An interesting statistic to me would be how many times has a specific area like Joplin been placed under a tornado warning over the past x years?

Heck lets combine tornado and severe thunderstorm warnings. I know here in Central Florida my county is under a tornado warning at least a few times per year, and in my 33 years here I've yet to have a tornado pass over my house. To average joe citizen why would yesterday's warnings in Joplin have been any different? After going through warnings time after time I think people get lulled into a sense of "it can't happen to me."

Remember we're all weather aware here, but most people don't even consider the weather unless they're on the way to the park or trying to work outside.