2011-05-22 Joplin, MO tornado thread

[Todd Renshaw]

... What I am chiefly concerned about is the Joplin hospital's tardiness in taking preventive action. They apparently have a Grey action plan which involves for example moving beds away from the windows. This was not activated until ten minutes before the tornado struck, according to the hospital or five minutes if you believe the staff. Or not at all according to some staff. Most of the staff seem to have noticed the tornado by inspection out of the window. Yet the fire chief says, and records appear to show, there was a 20 minute warning when the sirens were going.

I have much more sympathy for a hospital failing to protect everyone in time. (More sympathy than for other businesses, offices and public buildings where people can get themselves to safety if only given a little lead time.) I imagine it must be nearly impossible for the staff to take care of everyone given the staff-to-patient ratio, lack of maneuvering room in the halls, lack of elevators, etc. Sure, I'll bet they could do a lot better getting the word out to the staff and preparing for this sort of emergency, but even with a 20 minute lead time it must be awfully difficult.

 

[Jim Tang]

Just as a FYI...the graduation was held at Missouri Southern University, well away from the path of the storm.......thankfully!

Unfortunately the graduation had ended and many people were on the streets when the tornado struck. I read one story where someone was picking up a graduation cake at Wal-Mart when the tornado hit. Thankfully they were not hurt.

I think this is a good point. If there were a lot of people from outside the Joplin area during the storm, they wouldn't know where to hide or run.

 

[Jason Bolt]

Thank you for posting the links to the warnings.

I have been relieved in my response role so myself and others could restock and ready our troops for todays possible round of weather. Obviously won't be chasing today and I realize since this is a chasing forum my comments here may not be relevant. Still, I want to comment on the "20 minutes of warning". The first tornado warning as I recall at the time was for a different area of rotation and indicated North Joplin and adjacent communities. From memory it was on a different track. The deadly tornado did indeed form very quickly and to the south of the first area of rotation. Really it was a "perfect storm" for taking about the worst path possible through Joplin. Besides destroying a fully occupied hospital, a rehab hospital and four fully occupied nursing homes were destroyed. From my understanding of at least the one nursing home we covered they had neither time nor facilities to shelter 50+ disabled patients. Further, the area my crews and I covered was a lower income class neighborhood with consisting almost entirely of older, wood frame, single family dwellings. In the roughly one square mile we searched and treated patients in I do not recall seeing a single storm shelter or basement. I'm not saying there weren't people who didn't pay attention, there were as many fatalities occurred in vehicles. Still, from what I saw at ground zero most of those affected honestly didn't have a chance, shelter, warnings, or not. They simply were not in structures substantial to protect them.

I'm sorry I don't have time to provide more information. I just know I have gotten helpful information from people here and wanted to take a second and update what I can. Thank you to those of you who have called offering assistance. I will try to update as best as our spotty cell coverage allows.

 

[L Kimbrel]

I agree that the warnings were excellent; that was not my point. Nonetheless, the sudden intensification of this particular storm did come as a surprise even to many of the people actively tracking it. But outside of the weather-oriented community, people are still going to go about their business until they see or hear something (besides a NWS-issued warning) that urges them to do otherwise. And I think this was one of those situations. Yes, there was ample warning for a potential tornadic situation, and good lead time when the tornado actually developed. The warning system isn't the problem, it's the public's personal perception of their own specific risk in these weather situations. I've seen it here in my own community -- when the tornado siren blows, people are not inspired to seek shelter immediately, they are inspired to wander outside and look around to see if there really IS anything to be worried about before they take action. It's this see-it-to-believe-it mindset that I was addressing when I ran up the timeline.

 

[PatrickHarris]

One additional fact may be that it was Sunday afternoon / evening. Several churches meet at 6:00 in that area and that was a prime time for people to be in the cars on their way to service.
On of my co-workers lost an uncle and her aunt is in critical condition for that very reason. They were in the car on Rangeline when they were hit.

 

[Michael Reno]

This is one reason why I have a problem with on-air weathercasters referring to a warning as "Doppler-indicated." Many, many times around here our OCMs will say "this is only a Doppler-indicated tornado -- we don't have a confirmed tornado on the ground." This was a Doppler-indicated tornado around ninety seconds before it was a violent wedge, too. I do believe I'll pass that video link to some of them along with some unsolicited advice.

 

[Rob Wadsworth]

I have been following this thread with interest. What I am chiefly concerned about is the Joplin hospital's tardiness in taking preventive action. They apparently have a Grey action plan which involves for example moving beds away from the windows. This was not activated until ten minutes before the tornado struck, according to the hospital or five minutes if you believe the staff. Or not at all according to some staff. Most of the staff seem to have noticed the tornado by inspection out of the window. Yet the fire chief says, and records appear to show, there was a 20 minute warning when the sirens were going.

Can I also say, living in England, how struck I have been by how flimsy many American buildings are, by UK standards. There is a vid of some stormchasers driving through Joplin just ahead of the tornado and many of the structures look easily demolished. I am not saying an EF4 would not clear everything in its path, but surely if you get tornadoes in the region, you need to make sure that you listen to warnings and have a safe place to go to.

My son who lives in NYC tells me the very simple constuction of US homes in the south also means they will be cheaper to rebuild and that a town is unlikely to be hit twice. (You can tell he works in the financial sector...) Thisrather cynical view seems to be sharedb y the US Insurance and Building sectors, from what I can make out. . Surely there is more to the impact of a tornado than mere rebuilding costs?

As far as building codes and tornadoes go - not much is going to survive @ 200mph winds. If you live in a stone castle - that might not be safe either. EF ratings for tornadoes are based upon building damage; not just wind speed BTW. Given the fact that this particular storm was an EF4 - and some places showed some EF5 damage - no domicile would be considered safe. Nature of the beast. AS far as the Hospital goes, that structure will stand these wind speeds. However, the large plate glass windows and other external building components are fair game. One must realize, that with such high wind speed, even a shaft of straw has been noted to become embedded into a car's sheet metal surface. We are talking about the extreme in this circumstance. There are no real guarantees; unless one begins to build homes 1/3 of the way into the ground and shaped like a dome. Even then, there will be damage and loss of life.

You will find a mix of both old and new construction any where in the US for the most part. Newer building codes account for wind forces. You just cannot compete with these high wind speeds - however. Debris - both the large and small that has already been picked up and hurled - becomes nature's "trebuchet" . . .

 

[rdale]

This is one reason why I have a problem with on-air weathercasters referring to a warning as "Doppler-indicated." Many, many times around here our OCMs will say "this is only a Doppler-indicated tornado -- we don't have a confirmed tornado on the ground."

But that's what the NWS says too, so I'm not sure why you would say otherwise. 85% of the Doppler-indicated warnings do not result in a tornado, so it would be difficult to expect a full fledged response by the public in these cases. Just the nature of the FAR beast. On the other hand, if you look at the radar before touchdown it looked pretty darn good. I'm not sure a meteorologist would be treating that the same as a "typical" DO-only warning in the first place.

Plus many people are now ready to shelter only when a Tornado Emergency is issued.

 

[Rob Wadsworth]

This is one reason why I have a problem with on-air weathercasters referring to a warning as "Doppler-indicated." Many, many times around here our OCMs will say "this is only a Doppler-indicated tornado -- we don't have a confirmed tornado on the ground." This was a Doppler-indicated tornado around ninety seconds before it was a violent wedge, too. I do believe I'll pass that video link to some of them along with some unsolicited advice.

Best argument for storm chasers in the field - BTW. They can either confirm/deny what radar sees. Other times, they are calling in what radar hasn't yet detected between scan sweeps too. Both Doppler radar/NWS and the trained spotters/chasers are the "fail-safe" for the present system.

 

[Joey Ketcham]

The tornado that hit Joplin will be given an EF-5 rating.

 

[PDailey]

EF5! First EF5 or F5 tornado in southwest Missouri history. Although, I feel the 1880 Springfield-Marshfield twister was probably a high end EF4 or even an EF5 as well.

 

[Simon Andersen]

Many news agencies and Wikipedia are now reporting that the tornado is an EF5 but I can't find anything to corroborate that.

 

[Joey Ketcham]

Many news agencies and Wikipedia are now reporting that the tornado is an EF5 but I can't find anything to corroborate that.

000
nous43 ksgf 242259 aaa
pnssgf

ksz073-097-101-moz055>058-066>071-077>083-088>098-101>106-250445-...updated
public information statement
national weather service springfield mo
559 pm cdt tue may 24 2011


..ef-5 tornado confirmed in joplin...

The joplin tornado has been upgraded to an ef-5 tornado.

* date...22 may 2011
* maximum ef-scale rating...ef-5
* estimated maximum wind speed...in excess of 200 mph
* estimated path width...3/4 mile
* fatalities...122
* injuries...750

* this preliminary information was determined by a national
weather service survey team and is subject to change pending
final review of the event and publication in national weather
service storm data.

An ef-5 tornado impacted a large portion of the city of joplin.
Wind speeds were estimated in excess of 200 mph. The path width
was estimated at three quarters of a mile wide.

For reference...the enhanced fujita scale classifies tornadoes
into the following categories:

Ef0...wind speeds 65 to 85 mph.
Ef1...wind speeds 86 to 110 mph.
Ef2...wind speeds 111 to 135 mph.
Ef3...wind speeds 136 to 165 mph.
Ef4...wind speeds 166 to 200 mph.
Ef5...wind speeds greater than 200 mph.

$$

wise

 

[hazelmaryjackson]

Picking up on earlier comments, I realise that nothing will survive an F5 but seeing some of the folks who did survive today's tornadoes in OKC and surrounding area, emerging from their underground shelters to find their homes above reduced to a pile of matchwood, it is clear that you need both adequate warning time to get to a shelter or safe place and the will to take shelter.

If you get the warning and act on it in time, you stand a good chance of surviving - assuming you have a safe place to go. If there are so few homes in Joplin with their own shelters, how many public shelters are provided and how accessible are they? How many people waited to see how bad the storm was going to be before acting?

I do get the feeling that some people must routinely ignore the sirens and wait until they see evidence of what is approaching, before seeking shelter, which was not enough time in this case. Some people cannot envisage something they have not experienced. My husband is like that and says he would be likely to ignore siren warnings unless he had directly experienced a tornado.

Waiting to see what would happen next certainly seems to have been the case at the hospital in Joplin. The Grey alert was announced 10 minutes (5 if you believe the nurses) before the tornado struck. Nurses have said it includes moving the beds away from the windows to avoid flying glass but they had not had time to start before the tornado struck, when of course they just ran for cover. Someone else reported they were in ER having a broken rib dressed when the storm hit. Two doctors interviewed said they were taken completely by surprise. It does not suggest the hospital was locked down in case a tornado hit, after the warning.

The staff regularly rehearse the Grey alert but it is no good if they do not activate this when a warning comes. One manager said he was sitting at his desk waiting for the storm to pass to leave for the day when he looked out of the window and realised it was a tornado bearing down. He was sucked out of the door and thrown back when he took refuge in a closet. All this points to the hospital reacting to the warnings too late.

There are also other things one can do in a risk of breaking glass. In London when the IRA bombing campaign was at its height some years ago, government offices with large glass windows were targeted. Changing all the glass was out of the question as many were1960s buildings. Instead the windows were all fitted with anti blast curtains, like a sort of heavy net curtain, which absorbs the impact of the glass shattering and blowing in when a bomb goes off. In London they were kept closed but in a hospital they need only be closed when there is a tornado warning.

I am not suggesting the hospital could have evacuated patients at 20 minutes notice, but they could have activated their grey code earlier which would have saved many minor injuries in particular cuts and possibly turned off and secured some equipment away from windows. I think they have less excuse than individuals who might not live that near a siren. One hospital visitor said they heard the sirens going off outside the hospital thoughout their visit to a relative, but it does not seem much was being done about it.

 

[Justin Wiley]

Tornado on the ground or doppler indicated tornado?