VORTEX2

[Doug Raflik]

The Weather Channel has been advertising their own coverage of the Vortex 2 field work starting May 10th.

Great!!! Add another car or 2 to the already HUGE armada.

 

[Matthew Crowther]

Great!!! Add another car or 2 to the already HUGE armada.

I was going to post on this anyway separately- I am VERY worried about the chaser convergence this year, with Vortex2 being out there could just be the straw that broke the
proverbial camel's back. Take last Sunday in OK- this was a very spread out high risk with no defined target and before the heart of the chase season, yet there were a ton of chasers on the Roll cell.
Can you imagine the scenario where there is a weekend moderate to high end threat in late May, the target is focused on a very small area and only one supercell develops- and there is only one road with a good view of the storm? This will be utter chaos if it occurs. Chasing has become so much easier now with all the data that is available while in your vehicle, and has never been more visible in the media what with all the TV exposure, internet live streams etc. As a result every Tom, Dick and Harry will be out, all they need is a laptop with radar and Spotter Network, no experience required. Not only will it adversely affect the research project (no place to pull off the road, deploy probes etc), it will become a traffic hazard with hundreds of vehicles creating jams worthy of Atlanta at rush hour. We could have accidents and/or someone killed/injured when they are unable to escape the storm due to the massive amount of cars clogging the road. I am really glad that I bagged a good tornado this season already, I may have to be either really far away from the action zone and get my structure photos, or look for the more subtle targets up in WY and MT.

 

[Joey Ketcham]

I was going to post on this anyway separately- I am VERY worried about the chaser convergence this year, with Vortex2 being out there could just be the straw that broke the
proverbial camel's back. Take last Sunday in OK- this was a very spread out high risk with no defined target and before the heart of the chase season, yet there were a ton of chasers on the Roll cell.
Can you imagine the scenario where there is a weekend moderate to high end threat on a weekend in late May, the target is focused on a very small area and only one supercell develops- and there is only one road with a good view of the storm? This will be utter chaos if it occurs. Chasing has become so much easier now with all the data that is available while in your vehicle, and has never been more visible in the media what with all the TV exposure, internet live streams etc. As a result every Tom, Dick and Harry will be out, all they need is a laptop with radar and Spotter Network, no experience required. Not only will it adversely affect the research project (no place to pull off the road, deploy probes etc), it will become a traffic hazard with hundreds of vehicles creating jams worthy of Atlanta at rush hour. We could have accidents and/or someone killed/injured when they are unable to escape the storm due to the massive amount of cars clogging the road. I am really glad that I bagged a good tornado this season already, I may have to be either really far away from the action zone and get my structure photos, or look for the more subtle targets up in WY and MT.

I was wonder if I were the only one who thought the chaser convergence this year could be disastrous. I've taken the year off from chasing this year with every intention of getting back into it in 2010. Mainly because I have other things I want to do and also because with Vortex 2 going on, I know it will be complete and utter chaos out there. I don't really want to deal with that circus.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Take last Sunday in OK- this was a very spread out high risk with no defined target and before the heart of the chase season, yet there were a ton of chasers on the Roll cell.

Probably worthy of a different thread/topic but anyway. I can't imagine how bad a lone supercell day will be this year if it is anywhere near the heart of the alley. It would not surprise me at all if at the same time as Roll there were more chasers on that lead storm coming up from TX. I should post the video I shot, even though I missed a good chunk of the start of the line, it's still a fairly impressive line of chasers all going north on the highway(couple miles). So this is evidently two regions with impressive chaser numbers at the same time. Then figure there were more in sw OK further west, and others in KS or northeast of the Roll storm. One lone supercell(heaven forbid long lived one!) with Vortex II out, as well as the film crews that go with them/DOW...and all the chasers...I almost cant' wait to see it! Sure to be epic and interesting all by itself. Sturgis ain't got nothing on chasers 2009...especially given $2 gas. I'll still be out there bitching away, while being guilty as anyone else for helping clog up things. My only gripe are the slow leaders that won't pull over. The ones who won't touch 1 mph within the speed limit let alone a simple 5 over.

 

[Greg Stumpf]

I've taken the year off from chasing this year with every intention of getting back into it in 2010. Mainly because I have other things I want to do and also because with Vortex 2 going on, I know it will be complete and utter chaos out there. I don't really want to deal with that circus.

Unfortunately, for you, V2 operations continue through the Spring of 2010.

 

[Elinor McLennon]

I agree with Mike H. It will be a show to see Vortex 2, 100's of chasers, the DOW, TIV, film crews, our local media and TWC all crammed together to see a storm. Imagine the looks on people's faces that are sitting on their porch having tea when we all roll by
Didn't they say at least 14 black vans plus film crew for Vortex 2?

 

[Jason Boggs]

This is one reason I'm going to stay back away from the meat of the storms this year. I'd hate to get caught near the meso with a tornado forming while getting slowed down by all the traffic. That could be a dangerous scenario. I like structure shots anyway.

 

[Paul Hadfield]

Since this is an official government funded research project, will the VORTEX2 teams be granted special right of way privileges and those not bearing proper insignia be barred from further travel by LE or at the very least, be made to pull aside to allow passage of the teams much like for a funeral procession? Is the idea of roadblocks set up along well paved roadways at great distance from the research areas also a possibility?

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

Who knows; I doubt there is any law giving them extra right of way, but lets be honest -- most LEOs are going to give them priority given they're a federal science mission. I think any time you get a bunch of radar trucks together, local law enforcement it going to help out if they have manpower. I know last year near Hill City the local Sheriff gave the DOW crew an escort along the highway, which pretty much killed any ideas we had about trying to pass them -- it's one thing to pass an armada at night, it's another to pass a small-town cop with his lights running.

 

[John Hudson]

Since this is an official government funded research project, will the VORTEX2 teams be granted special right of way privileges and those not bearing proper insignia be barred from further travel by LE or at the very least, be made to pull aside to allow passage of the teams much like for a funeral procession? Is the idea of roadblocks set up along well paved roadways at great distance from the research areas also a possibility?

I don't think any of these restrictions would be legal, let alone enforceable. If everyone just gave right of way for the good of science, and used the Golden Rule in all situations, convergence disasters should be avoidable.

 

[Bill Hark]

While I am at home, I am looking forward to following the progress of VORTEX 2 on the web and through The Weather Channel. This is going to be an amazing research project that should get some great data as long as the weather cooperates. Better understanding of tornado formation should help improve warning times and save lives. I hope local law enforcement and others gives the whole armada extra consideration.

As for myself, I am concerned about the crowds but I am not going to stop chasing this year. I plan on doing my usual forecasting. If I have a choice of targets or storms, with everything being equal, I'll do my best to avoid the storm with VORTEX 2. If I am on the the same storm as VORTEX, I'll pick different road options or not get in as close and allow additional escape routes. It will be an extra challenge but nothing that will kill my joy of chasing this year.

I wish VORTEX 2 the best of luck for a great chase season.

Bill Hark

 

[Scott Nelson]

Some of the posts in this tread really confuse me. From what I understand, the Vortex 2 team are all professionals or professionals in training. And they are out there for a VERY specific reason. Their intentions are to use recent updates in technology and gather information on severe weather. Hopefully some new information will be learned as to why one storm produces a tornado while another one doesn't. If they need to have a lot of people surrounding a storm from different angles to gather said info, so be it. Yes, they may be clogging the streets during selected weather events but it truly is for the long term benefit of short term forcasting. Now I'm not throwing any chaser under the bus. But outside of most observing and reporting (all GREAT mind you) what is the average chaser doing to help move the science of forcasting forward? Realistically, not much. So yes... the V2 efforts might take away something from your own 2009 -2010 picture, video or observation but wouldn't it be great for the public to someday REALLY know what storm is dangerous, and what storm is DANGEROUS?!

On a side note: I still applaud TWC for thier efforts in trailing behind the V2 team. Yes, they might add a car or two to the large convoy but their daily updates/advice and information may spill over into the general publics consciousness more then ever. Short term, a soccer mom/dad who normally isn't weather savy may now check the radar or computer before running out to practice. Maybe it could save a life. We'll never know. But If those two cars that are added allow thousands to learn from what V2 is doing___ it's worth the inconvenience to me.

 

[Jason Foster]

I laugh at how many folks say they are "associated" with the project, saying things that would make the layman think that they are part of the team. These are mostly media related folks fighting for ratings and attention. A few aren't event that knowledgeable of severe weather to begin with.

Yes...I do believe that V2 has priority over chaser needs. If you don't like the fact that V2 is out there making it tough for you to chase....tough s**t! In fact, I think it should be made apparent that chasers should respect the needs of V2, and get out of the why should a V2 vehicle need to be in a location to better the science. To me that just professional courtesy.

 

[joel ewing]

We'll see how many of you "science has every right" folks truly feel when during a chase....you've forecasted correctly, arrived and parked at your ideal vantage point PRIOR to the Vortex armada arriving....and then are told on no uncertain terms you HAVE to vacate to make room for them.
Somebody a few posts ago mentioned the "Golden Rule"...of which I'm a huge believer in. I would be a better man if I practiced it more often. If folks would truly buy into this simple concept...we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Luckily for me....one of the biggest joys I receive in ALL of chasing is finding a storm far far away from where the biggest, most obvious action is pegged to be....and bagging naders with little or no other chasers around. I've had it happen many times over the years. I hope to God I have it happen again when my season starts on May 27th.

 

[Aaron Kennedy]

and then are told on no uncertain terms you HAVE to vacate to make room for them.

Ah yes, the man is out to get you theory. Mobile Mesonets will be continuously moving, radar trucks will be parked at locations with occasional leapfrogging. The ironic thing is there will probably be more media chasers out there than actual V2 associated vehicles. At least in the southern plains.

Is the idea of roadblocks set up along well paved roadways at great distance from the research areas also a possibility?

Nope.