VORTEX2

[Kevin Crawmer]

Thanks! Yeah, that website is much better than the other ones I had found. I guess to try to answer my question is that the first project showed us that 1) tornadoes form on outflow boundaries, and 2) that tornadogenesis seems linked to the RFD.

One of the most interesting things about this year's project is that one of their goals is to be able to predict when a tornado will form and die, how long it's track will be, more details in tornadogenesis, what makes some supercells produce and others not, and much more.

Good stuff. Hopefully they will have a successful year. It looks like there is going to be some traffic out in the plains this Spring!

 

[Verne Carlson]

Slightly off topic but still interesting to read about is the UAV portion of Vortex2 here.

 

[Kevin Crawmer]

YES Verne, those things are cool. It will be interesting to see how that all works.

Another thing slightly off-topic, but hey I created the topic is this: what is Sean Casey going to do without Wurman this year with the TIV? I wonder if Reid and pals will navigate this one? That would be nuts and slightly insane (since there would be no DOW). Who knows, we will see.

 

[Jason Caster]

A few more good men out in the field this year

In collaboration, NOAA and a number of Universities will send out scientists on a month long tornado chase to learn more about them. The AP just released this report:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090407/ap_on_sc/sci_twister_tech;_ylt=AjS_bDIj9qa6eQY.mArnewMPLBIF

 

[Skip Talbot]

A lot of their vehicles are going to be widely spaced at different points on the storm. The whole research team is not going to be in one giant caravan, although I imagine there will be several small caravans within the area.

 

[Uday Verma]

I have question? Since I am a newbie so please forgive me if my thought is wrong.Should we really avoid where vortex2 people are going? I mean isn't that there is the best( I am taking into account their years of academic background )chance of tornadoes happening in areas where they are likely to target.

Again just a newbie question

 

[Skip Talbot]

Their motives for selecting a storm may be quite different than the average storm chaser's. We typically want an isolated, photogenic storm. They might be going for something that has a peculiar feature they want to study. They might also be hanging onto a storm too long trying to study its entire lifespan, while everyone else is bailing down to the next storm.

The main reason you wouldn't want to chase near them, as that a large caravan can really slow you down. There is nothing more frustrating than getting caught behind a line of cars going 30 mph, while the storm pulls away from you. You'll also have to find someplace to park where it isn't crowded and where people and cars won't get into your shots.

Yes you might want to chase the same storm as the Vortex2 researchers, but I would avoid chasing near their caravans as its going to disrupt your and their chase.

 

[Darren Addy]

One other tidbit (explained by the unmanned aerial vehicle presenter at CPSWS) is that they only have filed the necessary FCC documents to fly in NW Kansas and SW Nebraska. That doesn't mean that the whole Vortex2 is limited to that area, but that (if they have a choice of targets on a given day) and wish to include the unmanned aerial part, they would need to do it in that area.

 

[Jeff Snyder]

One other tidbit (explained by the unmanned aerial vehicle presenter at CPSWS) is that they only have filed the necessary FCC documents to fly in NW Kansas and SW Nebraska. That doesn't mean that the whole Vortex2 is limited to that area, but that (if they have a choice of targets on a given day) and wish to include the unmanned aerial part, they would need to do it in that area.

I think their flight domain also includes northeastern Colorado, FWIW.

It'll be interesting to see how everything plays out. Traffic is going to be a significant problem, particularly when it comes to finding parking spots for the mobile radars. We've never seen 8-10 mobile radars on the same storm at the same time. The radars will be located at different distances from the "action area" since there are 3 distinct scales -- tornado-scale, mesocyclone-scale, and storm-scale -- that will serve as the focus for the radars, which may help alleviate the traffic problem a bit.

Cell phone / data issues may come up as well... I remember having a terribly difficult time getting a data connection through the tower(s) on 23-May-08 in Ness City, KS, when the storm was moving into that area. Most vehicles will be running at least one data connection, which, combined with the other chasers out there, will surely saturate cell towers in rural and small town locations.

At any rate, there's not much anyone can do about traffic since chasers and spotters have the same rights to the road as we (i.e.all those participating in VORTEX2) do. Given the importance of the project to the future of tornado research and understanding, it would be nice if some could be particularly courteous to mobile radars if possible, but, certainly, nobody can force anyone to do that.

I am, by no means, speaking on behalf of the project. This is my opinion, and it does not necessarily represent the views of the project and its PIs.

 

[Warren Faidley]

Another problem VORTEX and other portable radar units have in the past (although I doubt anyone still uses them) are mobile marine radars. As silly as it sounds, a few chasers used the marine radars up until cell phones and laptops made them even more silly to chase with. I'm not sure if RF is a problem? e.g., ham radios. Someone else can advise.

I think its always a good idea to try and leave room (or access to room) for others to park. I don't see this as a problem with the majority of responsible chasers, but the locals and tag-along production crews are going to make this year even more challenging. Thank God for fortified push bars.

W.

 

[Paul Austin]

Well, there's a possibility that daily messages will be posted somewhere on their site at http://www.vortex2.org/ . If not, avoiding them may boil down to avoiding the obvious target and chasing the underdog storms. I can see that being a great strategy for getting fewer storm photos but much more unique and interesting ones.

Tim

Based on Josh Wurman's presentation at NSCC this year, I think the plan includes targeting multiple simultaneous storms when it is feasible. That would thin the armada out a bit but would also saturate the primary and possibly secondary target areas for any particular setup. Also, as Jeff mentioned, various teams will position at varying distances and directions relative to any storm with varying missions with respect to scale and purpose. It is worth mentioning that the radar trucks are effective at varying distances and positions depending on their operating frequencies, design limitations, and technical functionality. This is due to attenuation, horizontal and vertical angle limits, maximum scan speed, resolution, functionality (dual-pol, phased array, etc.), etc. And that's just the trucks, to say nothing of the probe teams, mesonets, and aireal "assault". Anyway, I don't think anyone knows exactly just how crowded the roadways will be out there this year, but it should be a bit more crowded than the last couple of years for sure.

 

[Greg Stumpf]

If not, avoiding them may boil down to avoiding the obvious target and chasing the underdog storms.

I would think that after V2 gets a real taste of 2009-style chaser convergence, the underdog storm strategy might be their approach.

They will not be publicly announcing their targets each day, but I'm sure it won't be hard for anyone to know where they are once they are spotted.

Nevertheless, please give these folks ample space for the benefit of the science, the public well-being, and storm chasing. Their discoveries, as in past field experiments, will ultimately improve our hobby.

 

[Benjamin Rock]

DOes anyone know if there is a particular radio frequency they will be using? It might be nice to monitor them on a scanner, but if operating on the HAM side, I don't want to cause them any grief.

 

[Scott Nelson]

Hmmm. Am I missing something? I thought the original idea of a storm chaser/spotter was to basically observe, confirm and report for public safety. Not pointing fingers at any one post or related thread but a few seem to see this Vortex effort as a negative or maybe a hinderance to thier own efforts. Regardless of the issues a large team may or may not cause, the scientific data they're looking for is for the betterment of storm knowledge world wide. I applaud them and hope they get as much info as the need during their entire trip.

 

[Aaron Kennedy]

While I wish V2 the best of luck, I'm personally hoping for a good season on the N. plains. I seldom see more than a handful of other chasers (if any) up in the Dakotas.