VORTEX2

[Robert Edmonds]

Hmmm. Am I missing something? I thought the original idea of a storm chaser/spotter was to basically observe, confirm and report for public safety. Not pointing fingers at any one post or related thread but a few seem to see this Vortex effort as a negative or maybe a hinderance to thier own efforts. Regardless of the issues a large team may or may not cause, the scientific data they're looking for is for the betterment of storm knowledge world wide. I applaud them and hope they get as much info as the need during their entire trip.

As a scientist too, although in a different field, I wish them all the best of luck. I was just thinking it would be great to have information which would allow us to avoid them (although I am sure some would use the information in an attempt to follow them). There are enough mass chaser convergences as it is; it’s probably the last thing they want to be in too. I imaging it is hard enough to drive a DOW near a storm, much less drive a DOW near a storm and watch out for cars. I imagine they wouldn’t mind me chasing in another area while they conduct their operations.

 

[John Olexa]

Record Tornado-Chasing Blitz Planned

"An unprecedented $10.5 million dollar effort to understand tornadoes will send dozens of scientists into the field next month to chase the killer beasts"

http://news.aol.com/article/tornado....aol.com/article/tornado-chasing-blitz/419431

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

BTW, they have their entire plan of operation available over at vortex2.org. They don't update the site much, but they do list a map of their operational domain. I doubt they're going to give daily updates as to where they are -- most people would be looking to follow them around, not to avoid them -- but really, with 50+ vehicles in their armada, I'm sure it won't be tough to figure out where they are on any given day.

Personally, I'm extremely extremely excited about what they're doing this year and possibly next. The specific things they are researching are very useful -- and it's quite possible that the findings that come out of this could improve atmospheric models and understanding of tornadogenesis should they get the data that they're looking for. It's a lot of hard work and they're risking their necks in the name of science -- pretty awesome and dramatic stuff.

 

[Helen Rossington]

Maybe there should be a thread with Vortex2 in the title so more threads don't keep popping up.
There are new people arriving on the forum now we are into the new season and they may not realise it has been discussed if the threads are in disguise.

 

[Glen Romine]

BTW, they have their entire plan of operation available over at vortex2.org. They don't update the site much, but they do list a map of their operational domain.

A major upgrade is supposed to be coming soon. NSSL has put up a nice VORTEX2 site as well:

http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/vortex2/

A document describing the detailed operations plan will be made available in a few weeks time - hopefully before the experiment begins. For those in the Norman area, there is a Media Day planned on May 8th at the NWC, which if it's not a good chase day might be a fun time to swing by and see the components of the armada up close.

As previously noted, the primary 'mission of the day' will vary to allow balance in the data sets collected, and may not always put us with the most obvious target. Also, deployment limitations (such as not being particularly nimble with such a large and sluggish fleet) will significantly limit the events that we are able to target. On days when the storm choices are few - I expect there will be severe convergence, and we hope that folks will exercise patience with the inconveniences of the data collection teams. Vehicles deploying instruments have to make frequent stops, radars take up the best viewing spots, mobile mesonets drive at slow and steady speeds, etc... The teams will also consume large blocks of hotel rooms - so that will also prove inconvenient for some. Hopefully there will be plenty of storms for everyone this spring and next.

Glen

 

[Chris Nuttall]

MOD NOTE: Alright, I finally got around to merging all of the VORTEX2 discussions into a single thread. In addition, I stickied it for easy reference.

There have been a lot of separate threads with people posting news articles from various sources about VORTEX2. I counted somewhere around 3 or 4 new threads in the last week. Hopefully, this will solve the problem of so many semi-duplicate threads.

Just a piece of advice for good forum etiquette, if you're posting a link or snippet or a news article about something, VORTEX2 is a great example, check some other threads or use the "Search" feature to see if a similar thread has already been started. This will help us keep our discussions focused in one area, and not scattered and fragmented across half the board.

Thanks, everyone. Discuss away!

 

[Glenn Dixon]

Wired Magazine has discovered this project now:

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/04/tornado.html

 

[Shane Adams]

I don't think it's a big deal at all. The only days with huge convergences are the big days, and those only account for 10% or less of all chasing in a given year. Plus, the VORTEX guys aren't chasing for pics or pleasure, they're doing research, which means most of their vehicles will be in places around storms where chasers won't be (aka hail cores, precip cores, trailing behind a storm, miles upstream in the storm path, etc etc). Then again, there could be a lot of chasers in those areas, what with all the technology that far surpasses experience in many cases. The best part of it is, they more or less have to target the best area on a given day to get the best chance at storms (since they're burning up grant dollars and we're not much further along with figuring out tornadogenesis than we were in 1996)....there are a lot of days with "lesser" targets but equal opps for great storms/tornadoes. IMO VORTEX2 will be as much a hassle out there as the DOW/TIV combo has been...and I've never seen those guys anywhere near me during a tornado.

To me this is just like the "someone's gonna die" thing....lotta hype, not really been an issue out there.

 

[Aaron Kennedy]

Here's the updated operation schematic

 

[Patrick Marsh]

Thanks, Aaron. Now we'll have to kill you. That was a top secret document...

As someone who will be in the operations center all day, every day for the entire experiment, this graphic is my nightmare scenario.

 

[Larry J. Kosch]

Vortex2 story ran in local paper

This story about Vortex2 ran in my local newspaper today:

http://journalstar.com/articles/2009/04/17/news/local/doc49e7b05a27d39789214441.txt

Interesting to note that they got pre-authorization from the FAA to fly the planes in a limited area. That limited area is in SW Nebraska, NE Colorado and NW Kansas. The area is low-populated and makes a great testing area for the remote planes. They have three planes, each costing $25,000, ready to go.

Also interesting is that FAA requires the research team to keep the plane in sight at all times. Which is why the plane, costing $25,000 each, will have a GPS autopilot that will follow in the air but not get ahead of a chase vehicle on the ground.

Someone asked about what data collections they were interested in? The article says they are continuing the research started by Vortex1. That research determined that 70 percent of tornadoes formed near air mass boundaries such as cold/warm fronts. Vortex2 will continue that research and collect data from rear flank downdraftd that is usually near a tornado.

Quote from the paper article: "If everything goes right, they will get a plane within 2-3 miles of a tornado, but NOT inside - like those little metal sensors in the movie Twister".

They only have three of these plane models to work with and the first one is called "Tempest". It has a wingspan of 10.5 feet, length of 5 feet and weighs 12-15 lbs fully loaded. It has a max speed of 100 mph and flight time is about one hour. Cost: $25,000.

Wonder what happens if a second tornado drops down while they are tracking the first one?? And this plane gets sucked up into the core?? WHHOOOAAA BABBBYYYY!! LJK.

 

[George Limpert]

It's entirely possible, yes, that a plane could be damaged in the storm environment. If it happens, there's not much that can be done.

Only one plane will be in the air. There will be two cars, however, so there will be some redundancy. In addition to the driver, there will be three other people in each car. One is responsible for keeping the plane in sight at all times. One is responsible for monitoring for other air traffic in the area and making sure the plane is not a hazard to the air traffic. And one is responsible for monitoring the storm and making sure the plane isn't getting into an area where it is likely to be damaged, such as a tornado.

It's not to say a plane couldn't be damaged in the storm environment, but every effort will be made to prevent that from happening.

 

[Paul Harrop]

I hope they take into account the aerial chaser convergence. If there is a tornadic cell within 100 miles or so of Oklahoma City, there will be at least 3 helicopters flying around it. I would imagine the UAV would fly considerably lower than the news choppers, but who knows....

 

[John Wetter]

I hope they take into account the aerial chaser convergence. If there is a tornadic cell within 100 miles or so of Oklahoma City, there will be at least 3 helicopters flying around it. I would imagine the UAV would fly considerably lower than the news choppers, but who knows....

That is true but the only place Vortex-2 has authorization to fly UAV's is in NE Colorado.

 

[Scott Nelson]

I went through most of the posts on this thread and didn't notice if this info was previously mentioned.

The Weather Channel has been advertising their own coverage of the Vortex 2 field work starting May 10th. Not sure if they will be featuring quick and general anchor desk updates or if they'll have lenghty coverage/interviews of the ongoing field work. Either way, I'm looking forward to following whatever Vortex 2 info I can get.