ST's Future Discussion

[Patrick Marsh]

I've read through the thread this morning and spent some time trying to digest everyone's comments and figure out what I wanted to say. Here's what I came up with...

1a. For me personally, even though I don't log in all that often, I do peruse the threads without logging in. I suspect that there are some others that do the same. Part of my reason for that is so I'm not tempted to fire off a quick, snarky response (which I've been known to do). Plus, to be honest, I don't ever remember my password. I have to wait until I'm at home and on my computer to get it out of the password log. Security Through Obscurity, right? My point to this is that I think that even though some of us don't post a lot, we do read. For me personally, I don't have the time, nor the mental/emotional energy, to engage in some of the flame-wars that have historically taken place...and I know myself well enough that once I post in one I'm off to the races.

1b. Another reason why I don't post a lot is that I don't chase nearly as often as I used to. I used to be one of those people who would chase anything that was convective. However, given the number of people who are out and about, the cost of fuel, the fact I'm married now, and my job, it's just not worth the risk of getting munched because I was stuck in some gnarly traffic jam owing to some people who didn't know what they were doing. Because of this, I wonder if I even *should* be posting, as in a lot of ways, I'm a fraud if I try to say I'm a chaser. Sure, I can definitely add to meteorological discussions, but is that enough? What do people want the makeup of StormTrack to be? I've read a number of people say that it is for chasers only. Others advocate for members to have a severe weather orientation. Most people state they don't want the forum to turn into a general weather weenie group, but I've seen others post along the lines of that's what they wanted/thought ST was. So what is the identity of ST moving forward? Should someone like myself, who no longer chases, still be a part of the group?

2. In general, I think forums are a dying form of communication within the chasing community. My guess at the reason is that when things are most interesting and would historically bring the most amount of traffic, chasers are busy trying to drive other traffic to their own websites, Facebook accounts, twitter, livestreams, etc. I'm aware of at least one other chasing group that has tried to keep that group alive by moving to Facebook, but even then, the post count has waned.

3. Based on number 2, I *really* like the idea of bringing back a StormTrack or StormTrack-like e-magazine. This could be an opportunity for people to submit articles, share photographs, share stories, etc. I know it would be a lot of work, and it's something I would like to help with. The reality is, until my employer is fully staffed, I have no idea how much time I can devote to this.


My unsolicited $0.02.

 

[Rob H]

I've had one person publicly state it, and one person in private, that the lack of a real name policy is a core reason why they don't contribute anymore. I personally don't understand it, but I'm 100% fine with bringing it back. The only reason I don't use my last name right now is because I got paranoid about weird people contacting me, but changing my name here and quitting Facebook didn't do anything to help that!

bunch of stuff

Your posts are some of my favorites on this forum - I still go and read your essay on drylines every once in awhile to attempt to grok it all. We've got a wide mix of personalities, professions, and interests here and that's what makes a real community. We've seen what happens when you try to create a forum that caters to a single type of chaser personality. So I'm asking you personally to keep posting

For your other points, I think they're related. If the forum tries to do the exact same thing that Facebook/Twitter does, it's going to lose. Social media, in a nutshell, is about getting validation and sharing at a stream-of-consciousness level. It isn't designed for long, in-depth conversations about a topic. The forums *are* designed for that, however. One great way of fostering discussions like that would be the e-magazine type thing you mentioned.

I got flak on project I worked on before for saying that having people volunteer to write content on a regular basis is "like pulling teeth", but I fully stand by that opinion. It's a great vision for ST, but it's rare to find a stable of people that are not only willing to do it, but also have something interesting to say. This is one area the veterans could really help.

 

[Jason Persoff]

This has been a tough thread to read through because I tend to wax nostalgic. I can share a little insight into my own chasing the past few years and how technology has evolved, and then where I could see ST going (or not going).

#) ST was a Godsend for me in the 1990s--Only Gilbert had a website with more information than the print magazine, but it was more than enough to get me started and involved. WX-Chase offered a day-to-day, hour-to-hour update to my email. Those 3 venues of information were all I needed at the time.

#) ST supplanted the value of WX-Chase when it moved to a forum structure. Now I had a one-stop on the web to view active discussions. That was good.

#) In the past 5 years, everything has changed for me. Most of the forecasters I can rely on for excellent insight and back-and-forth discussion have migrated to FB, and occasionally to blogging. The reality is that as storm chasing has exploded with a lot of neophytes, I really don't have time to keep circling back to ST to see if anyone else has added something of value on ST or that what's being shared jives with my interest or level of knowledge.

#) From a purely selfish standpoint, I am attracted to those who can advance my knowledge in the field, or provide meaningful feedback to where I'm missing or misinterpreting things, and that conversation is increasingly happening on FB. Despite awesome moderation attempts, there is still a very high noise:signal ratio here, and too many threads through which to navigate to be meaningful from a forecast standpoint.

#) From a teaching perspective, ST is an excellent resource for passing on information to new chasers. This electronic mentorship is invaluable (and would have markedly improved my chasing experiences early in my chasing career. The loss of THIS aspect of ST would be rather harrowing. Possible solutions include transforming the site into a teaching site.

#) Skip had a great point in an earlier post: a moderated FB forum with hashtagging would markedly improve the benefit of a real-time, moderated, high yield solution to forecasting and summ posts. That said, FB has one of the least friendly interfaces for cataloging archival data. I belong to another weather group that migrated to FB, and the potential for duplicate threads has stymied the best moderation attempts. HOWEVER, I am alerted when one of the members there starts a thread to my cellphone, so I can immediately be aware of the new thread. Migrating to FB would offer these selected opportunities for getting notifications of new threads and more user engagement. My experience has been very positive with the FB migration, but even there, the post count has dwindled.

#) Here's the issue for me personally: like it or not, I only have so many hours in a day to dedicate to chasing, to weather, and to the internet. It is a normal outcropping of this limited time, that I don't have the capability to deal with the complex layers of a forum as diverse as ST. I can "silo myself" with others who resonate with me in knowledge, demeanor, and enthusiasm much more easily on FB, and that has, by convention, markedly improved chasing for me the past few years. I still stop by ST during chase season, but my day-to-day interaction with others has migrated to FB. ST has increasingly become an anachronism.

Okay--summary post for the tl;dr set:

#) As it stands, ST currently is diminishing in relevance
#) FB & Twitter have become staples in the chasing community (despite holdouts such as Dan Robinson and others who I greatly respect in this group).
#) A moderated forum runs the risk of alienating new chasers, or alternatively being too broad in focus to fulfill each person's needs (save for a small few). Perhaps "Tiers" of forums, based on election would allow lower noise:signal ratios, and could draw better quality posting. Yes, yes, this is controversial, but would be something very enticing for me.
#) I don't see a unified solution for ST, but as the repository for majorly important chaser educational threads and interaction, its future may best be suited to educating rather than trying to be a "one size fits all" chasing site.

I have to be honest that I would only consider a paid membership if the yield of the conversations was better, that I could group with others who can continue to advance my knowledge, and that was accessible, could notify me when new threads were started, and would be easy to interact with on a phone.

This has been a terrific thread given the high caliber of posts and posters here. I do miss the old days. But, I also have to acknowledge the world moves on...

 

[Patrick Marsh]

Just an aside, one thing I miss is the "like" or "thanks" option. I think it was useful, positive reinforcement that encouraged quality posts and engagement. If cost is the prohibitor here, I'll gladly pay for it, as long as it isn't ridiculously expensive.

 

[Jesse Risley]

In the past, we'd have these discussions in a thread, implement some of the changes based on consensus, but in the end nothing improved and membership numbers continued to dwindle. I agree that the social media outlet has its place, but Facebook inherently invites a cadre of participation that makes a social media page unable to host the quality, content and direction that a true forum can offer, so I'd say it's worth saving. I'd be among those willing to pay a small fee too.

However, it is what the chasing community makes of it. There are so many reasons why people left, and I'm not sure if there's a way to fix all of those problems to bridge all of the gaps. Some people just lost interest for no reason at all. Other chasers left in a fury over the moderation style, yet on the flip side even more claimed to leave because they saw the moderation as too loose or the same caustic posters were turning threads into flame wars before a collective ban came along - a paradox that only seemed to subside with less traffic on the site. Social media might be responsible for some of the dwindling traffic, yet others claimed to be upset about a real name policy being dropped. Then you have the technical problems and those who grew weary of having log-in problems, slow servers, an absent administrator, etc.

So where to go from here....

Identify a core group of issues that can be resolved, as some have been trying to do in previous posts, and, most importantly, making a personal effort to be more involved. A forum is what you make of it. If you want high quality traffic, you have to be willing to log-in at least a few times a week and participate. Everyone must take ownership of that principle or it won't work. We'd all have to agree to be part of the solution or part of the problem. I'm of the (possibly naive??) belief that there is still enough interest in a core group of chasers to keep something like ST afloat so that there is a controlled medium for higher quality, chase related discussions that can't be fostered via social media per se.

 

[Mark Blue]

I spent the last couple of evenings visiting the various forums I belong to and discovered that there are robust software solutions available that include deep social media integration and a plethora of other features built in. Vanilla and IP.Board look very interesting with full feature-sets, although the price would have to be right to even consider a migration to a new platform. I'm starting to believe we need a comprehensive solution that embraces all forms of social media (Twitter, Pinterest, Instagram, YouTube), not just Facebook. Unfortunately, those things cost money and without any income stream our new leader will be out of pocket on just about every move that is made.

Most importantly, we need a fresh leader who cares deeply about ST, who has the skill set to implement their vision, and who has the time and energy to dedicate to the effort. I also think we've said a lot of things about Tim needing to go, but we need to remember how much he has done for us over the years and the work he has put into this place. We've all benefited in one way or the other, so at a minimum he deserves a pat on the back and a sincere thank you for the last decade plus. It hasn't been all bad on that front, so whatever we do let's treat him with the dignity he deserves.

One problem we will never overcome is the seasonal nature of storm chasing and as Jesse said, we go through this exercise every year at approximately the same time and generally wind up right back where we started from. It will take a lot of effort and determination to change ST, so whatever happens just prepare yourselves for the long haul. Change is never easy to adapt to and takes people outside of their comfort zone, so it's an inherently uncomfortable process. All I'm saying is get ready and be careful what you ask for.

By reading through the lines it seems CFDG has faced issues with FB we will soon be facing now that we're heading down that road. They're a pretty sharp group with intellect to spare, so any lessons we can learn from their experiences would be lessons worth paying attention to. Overall, I'm very pleased with this thread and how it has turned out. If we hang together through all of this we'll be a force to be reckoned with!

 

[Rob H]

I think I speak for everyone when I say that no one wants Tim to go - the ideal solution is that he sticks around, lends insight, tells us about the Bangladesh project, fixes the server within a day of it going down, and is generally our fearless leader. But we all understand that he's got other stuff going on and that ST might not be high on his list of priorities. It needs to be someone's priority or it could fade into obscurity.

Sell me on why we need deep social media integration and some of these others features, and I'll try to help. I keep hearing the problem is content, however, not lack of functionality.

 

[Mark Blue]

I've only scratched the surface Rob as there are so many solutions available it'll make your head spin. I think it would extend our reach and footprint on the web and has the potential to bring in new untapped revenue streams. Vanilla has the social media sharing links built in to the software, so one click shares a post, picture, video, whatever to the social media venue you select. I'm going to keep digging because there are open source products as well and with those the price is right (free). Maybe vBulletin 5 has these features available now and I'm just not aware of it either. The bottom line is we need a self sustaining financial model so the bills can be paid from the revenue coming in, and I believe that extending our reach is one viable way to accomplish it. The reality is we will have to walk before we can run on retooling ST as it stands today and I have more research to do in the days to come. For the time being, I'm leaning toward a solution that affords us more exposure across the Internet to help pay the bills.

 

[Rob H]

I'd suggest assessing the current bills from a technical perspective - we could find a way to get the same thing for cheaper, or even move down to a lower tier of hosting. I'm not sure what ST does for CPU/RAM use, storage, and transfer but I'd be surprised if there wasn't a way to make it cheaper without losing quality or functionality.

Lower the cost, and revenue becomes almost a non-issue. But if you drop $250 on vBulletin software, and $30/mo on a dedicated Linux server that doesn't come anywhere close to being utilized, you're adding a financial problem just for the sake of going down the comfortable path.

 

[Danny Neal]

I echo the thought that I don't want Tim to go. Co-ownership will allow him to still be the man behind the man doing the renovation.

 

[Sean Ramsey]

The more I think about it the more I like the idea of submitted articles by active participants, magazine style within the forum - maybe once a month or so. There is sooo much talent here with the core group on so many different topics. Forecasting, event analysis, photography, videography, chasing strategy, technology...you name it. This thread alone has had 4.5k views in 9 days, and I have a hard time believing that was done by just 20 people so the traffic, even at this stage of the game is nothing to sneeze at, and would be worth a person's time to put together an article once in a great while, especially if we can get the base growing again.

I agree with Patrick about the "thanks" or "like" button. I think it encourages posting and also engages people in posts, whether a user posts or not.

Moderate in moderation. I think the line between healthy debate and name calling or crossing the line is pretty clear. I think this has been done pretty well lately.

 

[John Olexa]

Just an aside, one thing I miss is the "like" or "thanks" option. I think it was useful, positive reinforcement that encouraged quality posts and engagement...

I was going to mention this as well. Sometimes I'll read something that I might not have a reply for, but at least by clicking "like" I can acknowledge that I read it.

 

[Mark Blue]

Tim advised us about a year ago that the "Like" button feature was no longer supported on version 4.2.2 of vBulletin. He indicated the developer of the code hadn't updated it in three years, so it was too risky to implement. He did say if we could find a similar feature on another forum(s) where it was currently in use he would consider reimplementing it if the code had a solid track record. More research to add to the ever-growing list of to dos.

 

[John Olexa]

How would I go about asking about how their "like" feature works ? Every forum I'm on has one so I'm sure I could fine what they use, if I know how to ask LOL

 

[Mark Blue]

Just an aside, one thing I miss is the "like" or "thanks" option. I think it was useful, positive reinforcement that encouraged quality posts and engagement. If cost is the prohibitor here, I'll gladly pay for it, as long as it isn't ridiculously expensive.

This seems to be the best solution from what I found Patrick: http://www.dragonbyte-tech.com/product/22-advanced-post-thanks-like/

Dragonbyte Tech seems to have a fair amount of plugins available from what I saw on their website. A lifetime license costs $84.95 and it also appears they have a Lite version available as well.