ST's Future Discussion

[Brett Roberts]

I suppose I don't have a lot constructive to add, especially in light of the detailed and insightful thoughts shared by many others thus far.

I just wanted to say that I couldn't agree more with Jacob Ferden on the issue of the "culture shift" in chasing. To me, the most noticeable decline in active-weather participation from quality members here occurred from around 2008-2010, which perfectly coincided with the rise of Storm Chasers and the notion of competing "chase teams." Unfortunately, there's no turning back the clock on that phenomenon, and I can't really blame veterans and other hard-working, experienced chasers for a reluctance to plaster their targets on a public forum. Even if we accept that time marches on and old veterans may move on to greener pastures (or simply lose interest), a relatively high percentage of knowledgeable and serious chasers who are new to the hobby (i.e., post-2008) are inherently more competitive and "team"-oriented because of how chasing was portrayed when they started. Thus, even they may be reluctant to post about current setups in the way it seemed almost *everyone* was willing to 8-10 years ago.

And then there's Facebook, which has been beaten to death for the past 4-5 years here every time this topic is broached. In my opinion, it's an easy scapegoat because... well, it is the biggest reason most people don't visit a board like ST anymore. I have more optimism for the possibility of an active and successful ST group on FB than some have expressed so far, for the simple reason that most people spend all day on FB and will see it. I'd far prefer for the actual forum to return to its glory days, but that's water under the bridge now. I'm skeptical that this forum's decline really has *that* much to do with the absent administrator, rule changes, etc. I think everyone on the staff here could've managed every aspect of the site brilliantly since 2007, and it would likely still be a shadow of itself from that era. Social media has changed most people's Internet habits.

 

[Danny Neal]

I think having the "core members" set as mentors or "go-to experts" would do this page well. Instead of calling them moderators, call them the leadership committee and open the doors to everyone that wants to learn weather and chasing. I think we missed the boat with shows like storm chasers. I know to a storm chaser, most general discussion is *yawn* but to noobs afraid to post this was a gold mine. We would need to plug ST on social media to the most novice of weather junky and be prepared to deal with an onslaught of "how do I know if it's going to rain today?" I don't know if this will ever be a storm chasing forum anymore but that doesn't mean it can't be storm chaser owned.

 

[Jacob Ferden]

I think having the "core members" set as mentors or "go-to experts" would do this page well. Instead of calling them moderators, call them the leadership committee and open the doors to everyone that wants to learn weather and chasing. I think we missed the boat with shows like storm chasers. I know to a storm chaser, most general discussion is *yawn* but to noobs afraid to post this was a gold mine. We would need to plug ST on social media to the most novice of weather junky and be prepared to deal with an onslaught of "how do I know if it's going to rain today?" I don't know if this will ever be a storm chasing forum anymore but that doesn't mean it can't be storm chaser owned.

The biggest issue with the "how do I know if it's going to rain today" crowd is, if it gets to that point, it's just another weather outlet. When one considers the importance Stormtrack once had, should it really be downgraded to a forum-based version of TWC's Facebook page? If that were the sole realistic course...I'd still favor letting it go. There are plenty of outlets like that already. No need for another.

 

[Shane Adams]

The biggest issue with the "how do I know if it's going to rain today" crowd is, if it gets to that point, it's just another weather outlet. When one considers the importance Stormtrack once had, should it really be downgraded to a forum-based version of TWC's Facebook page? If that were the sole realistic course...I'd still favor letting it go. There are plenty of outlets like that already. No need for another.

Wow, I hadn't thought of it like that. But I agree, I'd have zero interest in this place if it just became another John Q. Public service wx site. I'm totally onboard with allowing anyone who has an interest in chasing to be here, whether they actively chase or not. But the world doesn't need another dumbed down QnA weather forum. I think perhaps some people are so focused on keeping this board alive they might be losing sight of why we want to keep it alive. If ST is to become a shell of its former self, a lifeless, silent (but still breathing) body hooked up to life support machines, I'd sooner just pull the plug.

If we can't generate the interest by chasers, knowlegeable enthusiasts, and eager-to-learn-and-develop newcomers, then what's the point? I don't mind throwing out a nugget here and there when a legitimate chasing question arises, but I have absolutely no interest in playing "teacher" to a thousand people who only want to know what their kids need to wear to school that day. That's not what ST was, is, or ever should be IMO. Now that I'm seeing this possible future, I'm starting to lean back towards a CFDG type setup, even if it's a pay-to-play thing.

One possibility is to just do nothing, and let it go as is. When you think about it, people using this forum is what we all want. The forum is already here. The people are already here. The ones who left did so because they no longer wanted to be here, the reasons really don't matter. Changing one thing to bring back chaser A will only run off another one. The forum existed and was successful because people from differing backgrounds were interested enough to look past whatever personal shortcomings they saw within the fourm itself to be able to exchange knowledge, ideas, war stories, whatever. A lot of people just lost interest. I think Jacob was onto something when he talked about a change in chasing culture. People just don't have the same online habits they did 7-8 years ago.

I can use myself as an example. This place isn't anything close to what it was (for me personally) a decade ago. But it's still here. The forum didn't change, the members did. The board functions more or less as it always has since becoming a forum type almost 11 years ago. What each of us perceives this place as personally has morphed throughout the years as different people have come and gone. There's no stopping that. No amount of forced changes in policy, day-to-day operations, or moderation will change the people who choose to be here (or don't). Maybe ST is what it is, and that's the best possible solution.

EDIT: Despite the last paragraph, I'd be extremely thrilled if there was a way to have your typos flagged while writing a post. I just spent longer finding and fixing typos after the fact than I did writing the post.

 

[Mark Blue]

I have to say that it feels like the majority of the same ideas we've previously had in place are being recycled in one form or another, and speaking only for myself I'm disappointed that we cannot take a more sensible approach. I also believe that it makes no sense whatsoever to put the leadership change discussion off until a later date, only to implement several ideas that have mostly been tried and have failed in the past. The chase game was successful for a time but the novelty eventually wore off after a few months. I do acknowledge that it would be worth trying again though, as it did generate a lot of interest in the past. This is not to say there aren't any good suggestions in this thread, my issue is with the timing, careful consideration, planning, and implementation of those with merit.

The sensible approach IMO would be to have the leadership discussion first, then once that's a known quantity let the new person sort through the ideas and implement the changes they determine to be inline with their vision for the future. I believe it's wildly unfair to a prospective leader to try a few last ditch efforts at reviving ST, only for them to have to undo several of those changes they disagree with a couple of months down the road. Surely I am not alone with this line of thinking.

 

[Sean Ramsey]

The sensible approach IMO would be to have the leadership discussion first, then once that's a known quantity let the new person sort through the ideas and implement the changes they determine to be inline with their vision for the future. I believe it's wildly unfair to a prospective leader to try a few last ditch efforts at reviving ST, only for them to have to undo several of those changes they disagree with a couple of months down the road. Surely I am not alone with this line of thinking.

I think you are spot on. We can list ideas all day long, but a leader (whether it is Tim or someone else) should have the vision of what is best for ST, and should be trusted in to make those judgements. Yes, they should listen to the members and gather ideas, but at the same time be able to make the decisions on where we are going, then if people decide to bail then that's their decision. Setting the identity, implementing improvements, setting the tone for for moderation, these are all things that have to come from above.

And as a membership we will need to have the faith and trust that whoever leads going forward is taking care of business, sets the course, and knows where we want and should go. If that is lost (or never gained) then the board will most likely stay on its current path. If we can establish that, then it's back to the content and that is on all of us to make it what it is.

 

[Danny Neal]

The biggest issue with the "how do I know if it's going to rain today" crowd is, if it gets to that point, it's just another weather outlet. When one considers the importance Stormtrack once had, should it really be downgraded to a forum-based version of TWC's Facebook page? If that were the sole realistic course...I'd still favor letting it go. There are plenty of outlets like that already. No need for another.

I'd rather draw weather nerds in to bring in fresh enthusiasm than talk to the same 20 people for the next 2 years. There's nothing special about ST to anyone except to those who knew what it once was. How would one suggest reinvigorating the discussion here if no broadening of our sights is managed?

 

[Rob H]

Surely there's a balance somewhere between "tell mothers what the air temp will be for kids waiting for the school bus" and "lock down the existing community". We're not likely to get people returning like Shane did. If this community grows at all, it will be with new chasers.

If we're not comfortable with the thought of more idiot chasers forming teams with decals and lightbars and giant egos and video sales and reckless driving, it's up to us to teach the people looking to get into the hobby. If we don't offer that guidance, they're going to learn from watching Storm Chasers, or even worse, Team XXXtreme Tornado Destroyers or whatever stupid group gets too close to a tornado, almost dies, and gets millions of views on YouTube.

 

[James Gustina]

Its very depressing seeing how the younger generation of chasers (of which I belong to) conducts themselves anymore. I've rarely seen someone my age or younger who doesn't run with a clique and look down their nose at a separate/opposing group.

I know there are still a decent number of newer chasers who aren't like that, but chasing really has just changed a lot since the second big influx of new people. I don't think ST can draw in a lot of the younger demographic mainly because this forum thankfully doesn't lend itself to an endless pissing contest about what you've seen.

That said, I think ST could benefit from attempting to slowly change the dynamic and promote having the younger ones. The snarky responses to a new member's post about chasing/meteorology really doesn't help the perception of this place, no matter how ridiculous the post is. I think our biggest issue stems from that, meaning people think this is a forum where elitists gather. To end this rambling post, just being a smidge more welcoming and making changes to forum sections and such might help.

 

[Greg Higgins]

The sensible approach IMO would be to have the leadership discussion first, then once that's a known quantity let the new person sort through the ideas and implement the changes they determine to be inline with their vision for the future. I believe it's wildly unfair to a prospective leader to try a few last ditch efforts at reviving ST, only for them to have to undo several of those changes they disagree with a couple of months down the road. Surely I am not alone with this line of thinking.

What seems to be the position of several folks is to get rid of Tim, come hell or high water. Guess folks having a rough spot in the road is unacceptable and they should just be pushed aside. If that isn't the intent, my apologies.

 

[Dan Robinson]

The forum existed and was successful because people from differing backgrounds were interested enough to look past whatever personal shortcomings they saw within the fourm itself to be able to exchange knowledge, ideas, war stories, whatever.

This. At least initially, there needs to be a high degree of patience among longtime chasers for inevitable pet peeves. In 2011, I myself allowed those to factor in to wanting to quit the forum (as I did once). After growing as a chaser and experiencing the Facebook lowest-common-denominator, I'm willing to suck it up and tolerate some annoyances for what I see will be the good of the hobby if this place returns to prominence in the community. We all have to accept and be prepared for the times when we get unfairly snarked at, flame baited, annoyed, have our experience downplayed by know-it-all newbies, or hand-slapped by temporarily overzealous mods. It's gonna happen, and thick skin is going to go a long way to making this work. Not only we have to realize that, but former members as well if they decide to return.

I see the restoration of ST as the restoration of a community, not just the restoration of a web site or forum. In reality that is what I care about in this whole effort. The web site/forum is just a means to that end.

 

[Mark Blue]

What seems to be the position of several folks is to get rid of Tim, come hell or high water. Guess folks having a rough spot in the road is unacceptable and they should just be pushed aside. If that isn't the intent, my apologies.

I think it has more to do with a demonstrated history (5 years perhaps) of not giving ST the attention it deserves, than throwing anyone under the bus because they hit a rough spot in the road (divorce). Actually that thought never crossed my mind, so thanks for allowing me to clear that up Greg.

I believe it's delaying the inevitable and I'd rather get on with things than go through another round of more of the same, if that makes any sense.

 

[Joey Ketcham]

I think the other thing that has contributed to the number of active users on here dwindling down in recent years is the fact that you have a large number of newer generation of chasers who probably don't even know StormTrack exists. A lot of us grew up when StormTrack was mailed out to us when it was a print magazine, I would imagine a lot of the newer, younger, chasers today were probably just little kids or not even born yet. That's why I said in earlier posts that StormTrack needs to embrace social media, it's an outlet for ST to get its name out there to weather enthusiasts who may not even know that StormTrack exists, or what it's all about.

 

[Greg Higgins]

One thing that has not been mentioned on here regarding social media (Twitter, FaceBook, Instagram, etc.) is the fact that a user will never see every message that goes out. Even if you interact with a particular "site" you still won't get everything. The other consideration is that, particularly FB, if you get too many "followers, they'll slap you with a fee to ensure your messages get "delivered". This forum is the only place a person can go, even after days, weeks, months or even years, and catch up on every message / thread / comment posted without missing anything.

 

[Joey Ketcham]

One thing that has not been mentioned on here regarding social media (Twitter, FaceBook, Instagram, etc.) is the fact that a user will never see every message that goes out. Even if you interact with a particular "site" you still won't get everything. The other consideration is that, particularly FB, if you get too many "followers, they'll slap you with a fee to ensure your messages get "delivered". This forum is the only place a person can go, even after days, weeks, months or even years, and catch up on every message / thread / comment posted without missing anything.

I agree 100%, social media will never replace any forum. Social media is good for one thing; putting your name out there (advertising).