Lurkers, Target Area, memberships, and Stormtrack

[skipper bennett]

I appreciate the opportunity to give some input. I do check Forecasts and Nowcasts for an early heads up for severe events that might impact my home and family. I also reference my WFO (FWD) and spc forecast products. I am interested in what may develop system wise but I also enjoy absorbing an event as it happens through the Nowcast reports. There is a positive osmosis value in all this for me because I have picked up some basic knowledge.

I would never interfere with the traffic on these two forums. I would simply be in the way. I do not have the knowledge or the skill. I do not and have not any plans to chase chasers and be in the way in that fashion. I do not live in an area that is friendly chase terrain or that gets the level of tornadic or supercellular structure storms compared to other famous areas in tornado alley.

I do not chase. I am an enthusiast-learner who does not clutter up your access and communication with non-contributing posts. Because I do not clutter up the flow with non-useful posts it puts me in the category of lurker...sounds sinister. I realize that it is an accepted term.

I do appreciate getting the benefit of the combined knowledge, experience and skills of the members.

 

[Eric Friedebach]

Lurkers don't even need to read the target area to find out where to chase. They just go to the Discovery Channel's "Stormchasers" page and look at a map to find out where Reed and several other chasers are at in real time.

There's also SN and the streaming video sites as well.

 

[Bryon Cannon]

I'll chime in as a new member and lurker. I said in my application essay that I've got a lifelong interest in meteorology. I grew up on the stories of my dad and his friends providing emergency communications via ham radio and that prompted me to get my license. I've been through a dozen sessions of storm spotter training, attended a few of the advanced sessions in the big city, and I'm an NWS stationary spotter.

But I don't have the thorough meteorological knowledge the average Stormtrack member does. I can't contribute to the discussions the way so many of you can, and I wouldn't consider cluttering up a discussion -- especially a forecast or now thread -- with a "me, too!" And as I'm a stationary spotter, I'm not going to rush out and hope to shake hands with you at roadside under a wall cloud.

The great value the forecast and nowcast forums have for me is seeing where top-flight chasers think the storms are going to be. If you get interested in my locale, I know it's time to batten down the hatches. Sure, I keep up with the NWS forecast and the SPC, but getting it from the people who go into the field, who spend their own time and money to chase, is head and shoulders above every other form of information.

I also noted in my essay that I would be perfectly happy to pay a "lurker's fee" to be able to see the forecasts and nowcasts without posting privileges. Those of you doing the heavy lifting shouldn't have to put up with idiots getting in your way, and those of us who aren't contributing to the discussion can help pay some of Stormtrack's freight.

 

[Jason Persoff]

At what point in time does someone go from being a leech to a student to a "chaser" (tm)?

I struggle with this issue internally a lot...(cue an old man's voice: "why when I started chasing..."). Yes, chasing was a lot more exclusive in the old days before the internet..back in time, B.T. ("Before Twister"). There are a lot of frustrations nowadays with chasing in its current iteration with lots of inexperienced or occasionally reckless chasers. Behaviors which have been hashed out repeatedly on this and other lists which have also soured a lot of vets about neophytes to the hobby.

These same rumblings (and ramblings) about lurkers and leechers have always existed about chasing in the modern era. Yes, I feel it too: it's not fair that someone leeches off the forecast you slave over with paper and pencil, and yes it would be wonderful if nature somehow gave back that karma by failing to reward the unscrupulous chaser. How much worse is it now when someone with an iPhone can trump a well-done forecast because they peered at Spotternet locations instead of working their rump off on where the mesoscale feature is going to usurp the synoptic scale?

But I also know that I started somewhere...and one person's leeching is another's learning.

I feel strongly against exclusivity to the FCST feature because it will isolate or close off those who are truly interested in learning and learning well. Someone else's hard work always paved the way to my knowledge. And, to this day, others continue to inform my decision making, often in unexpected ways. Admittedly, there is a growth process that leaves open the need for some to "graduate" to new levels of understanding, but Stormtrack has always been about the new learning from the old.

Yes, it sucks to be the yoeman (yoeperson?). But there's a lot of good that could come from this too including inspiring new individuals who could go on to great things in meteorology, even if the downside is openness to some.

A far better solution is a vetting process, but I don't know that--based on Tim's estimation of over 300 applications in a 2 week timeframe--that's a realistic process.

I guess my last thought is to echo others' thoughts that the best method to match both needs would be a time-delay FCST thread access. Afterall, learning isn't always needed in realtime. But shy of that, I favor open access.

 

[Brian Mette]

I guess I'll chime in.

Yes, I'm a lurker. I've only posted a few times on here. But like many others have said on here, I'm still learning. I'm a junior in college, but I've only had one semester of meteorology courses. I do go storm chasing, but not very often. I simply don't have the money to go driving all over the country. I have to save whatever money I have for school. I've never even seen a tornado.

Do I read other peoples forecasts and nowcasts? Yes. It helps me learn what other people are looking at, and how to forecast better. I like to look at forecast models and such, make my own forecasts, and then check them against everyone else's. Do I "leech" off other peoples forecasts? No. I rarely chase very from from my own house. And thus, most of the time, I'm no where near anyone else.

If people supposedly leeching your forecasts is such a big deal, then don't post your forecasts, it's that simple. It's like writing an article for a newspaper, then getting mad when people read the article.

Anyway, isn't the point to further science/our understanding of storms and weather, as well as warning the general public to danger?

Truthfully, the whole "lurker" issue seems kind of selfish to me. People are mad because there are too many other storm chasers on the storms they are chasing, so they're blaming people whom most likely have nothing to do with the problem. I have just as much right to chase a storm as any one of you.

 

[Jen Metcalf]

I am a "lurker" and guilty, I guess, of posting a childish post that was pointed out earlier in this thread. I have a full time job that I am not able to get away to chase unless it goes right by my house literally.

I joined ST to learn. I have books and I look up unknown information on the internet as I read the more experienced chasers posts. I grew up in Grand Island, NE with the 1980 tornado out break. When the sirens go off in Grand Island people go to the streets NOT the basements. I have attended the local weather symposiums to get information and talk to people. I have learned what books are best to read/study and what sites are best to check.

I am sorry that my posts are childish- I got excited. I have no other reason. I will be sorry to see if it is decided that I will be unable to view the discussions, so that I may look at the models and see what everyone else sees as it is happening.

My two cents- for whatever it is worth.

 

[Bill Schintler]

Needless to say, this seems to be becoming a trend: people joining Stormtrack not with the intention to contribute or connect with the community but just to scavenge the hundreds of quality forecasts that appear on a chase day.
Tim

So, what’s the problem if someone wants to lurk...? Of course, if everyone did, there'd be no point in having the forum - but that's far from the case here. I post forecasts and other information with the intent of anyone being able to read... I don’t care if they post in return or not – I’m happy if they read the post and learn something useful.

- Bill

 

[Justin McGinley]

I guess i will throw my two cents in also. I only look at the forecast threads when the weather is active in my area because i am a spotter for my county. I am still really new here but I am starting to get more active with posts and I am wanting to give reports once the 30 day wait is over I will not post my own forecast cause I am still trying to learn to read the models. The info that is posted in the forecast thread I do pass along to my EMA director to let him know about what is going on or what is going to happen.

I have to agree with some of the people that the five bucks a year is to cheap also. I would say make them pay five bucks or higher each time they want to read a post. I mean it sounds crazy but if you dont want people going in and seeing were everyone is going and being in danger your going have to come down hard.

I joined stormtrack because I have a huge interest and wanting to learn more about the weather and how everything works. I have already learned alot. To me just having people come on here and see where everyone is going is annoying and dangerous.

 

[Nathan Hoelting]

First off.... I just want to say that I love reading the forecasts. That's why I joined. I wanted to read the thoughts of those with much greater knowledge than I. I've never posted a forecast here and honestly probably won't be in the near future due to the fact that my forecasting ability is nowhere near the quality I find in some of these threads. That said, as my forecasting ability improves, I do look forward to contributing in a positive manner someday. Right now though, it's just not on par with some of the other users on this site plain and simple.

Personally, I don't think there is any way you are ever going to keep the "lurkers" away. I don't think the massive amount of chaser convergence has nearly as much to do with people using ST forecasts as it has to do with the increasing amount of exposure of storm chasing to the general public. Everywhere you look these days you can find something on stormchasing. TV, internet......How many chasing tours did you see 15 yrs ago compared to now?

True, there are idiots out there, and in the past few years with all the newcomers it seems like there are more and more cases of people suffering from headupassitis. The plain and simple truth is, technology has advanced to the point where anybody with the desire to do so can track down a storm. Honestly, do they have LESS of a right to chase after that storm than somebody who has spent days trying to pinpoint a forecast? No. Does it make them less deserving than somebody who has put hours into a forecast? IMO yes. C'est la vie.

Bottom line is....everybody chasing storms has something in common: A love of weather. Now for some, it may be a fleeting affair while for others it's a life-long passion. Regardless, chasing is becoming more and more mainstream everyday. Those who truly love it will be doing it for the rest of their lives and the rest will come and go with seasons.

 

[Bonnie Frank]

Im going to try and quickly explain why I read the Forecast section. I've noticed that several here say that we can keep abreast with TWC and SPC. However neither of these sources seem to get the target areas "right" until a day ahead of time. I currently take care of a couple of elderly family members who dont have basements and I very much appreciate a heads-up a few days out so I can plan. I'm not ever going to go out chasing and get in someones way, and I have learned alot about these storms from this forum alone. Everything else reads like Japanese stereo instructions. I wont be posting in either of the Forecast or Nowcast sections either. I would appreciate the opportunity to be able to read these sections so I can stay informed.

 

[Andrew Stoller]

I joined Stormtrack several years back as a complete newbie and with the utmost respect for the prominent chasers (most have all but left) that were the base of Stormtrack back then. I came here with the intent of learning how to forecast so I as well could go out on my own and chase, without the need to lurch off of others.

I agree with the members here who say lock off the FCST section. Keep it for members who contribute and share valuable information with others who also share and contribute information. That's the way it was when ST started and it's the way it should be today. This is a forum for real chasers, not armchair chaser wannabes.

Keep the free loaders out, unless they as well have the desire to learn how to forecast and learn about severe weather. Storm chasing IS NOT the act of lurching off of others simply to get enough information to drive out into the middle of Kansas to see a tornado once or twice. Half the joy of chasing IS forecasting and discussing severe weather with others who have similar passion and desire to learn, understand, and experience severe weather in the field.

Thank you.

 

[Rob H]

I'm also in the camp for locking it down. The general public doesn't need to participate in or see that level of "shop-talk". They should be looking to their local weather and the SPC for safety information.

I guess I disagree with using the FCST threads as a learning resource for beginners. Different people learn differently, but I personally found the educational forum and chase partner thread to be the best resources on this site for a beginner chaser. Only now that I'm doing my own forecasts do I appreciate the FCST threads. Before I was going out of state to chase and religiously watching models on a daily basis - I couldn't keep up with the FCST threads. The only possible thing I could've done is leeched a target area and not know why I was headed there.

I like reading everyone's opinions, even if I disagree with them. For everyone out there that puts time into quality FCST posts, please keep it up - people definitely appreciate it.

 

[Jason Boggs]

Lock her down! If people want to see the threads, they can join like everyone else. Freeloaders, get off this ship!!!

 

[rdale]

Interesting that many of the NOW posts (that we need to proect from the "general public") consists of:

"Sirens going off"
"NWS issued a tornado warning"
"GR3 shows 2 inch hail"

Good thing we aren't letting that highly-sensitive, confidential meteorological insight out to the public

 

[MatthewCarman]

Interesting that many of the NOW posts (that we need to proect from the "general public") consists of:

"Sirens going off"
"NWS issued a tornado warning"
"GR3 shows 2 inch hail"

Good thing we aren't letting that highly-sensitive, confidential meteorological insight out to the public

Thats why I rarely ever post in the NOW threads now. I know I am not the best at posting in the NOW thread and when I used to it was mostly about watches and warnings. I admit my post today was not really.

It seems like 80% of the posts in NOW threads are about watches, warnings or a tornado being reported by the NWS which everyone already knows about because we all check out the NWS website and the SPC. I even see a lot of one liners with bad spelling and no period marks at the end of the sentence. Most of the members that actually had descent posts in the NOW threads no longer post there. I have GRLevel3 and I find it more usefull now then the NOW threads at storm track.

I remember NOW threads where 80% of the posts were about the worst part of the storm, where it was heading and storm chasers reporting tornadoes. I don't see that much anymore. I don't blame anyone though. I know it can be annoying to chasers though who want usefull information and see posts about watches and warnings they already know about.

Maybe storm track can have two NOW thread sections? One for storm chasers and one for armchair chasers and weather enthusiats?