• After witnessing the continued decrease of involvement in the SpotterNetwork staff in serving SN members with troubleshooting issues recently, I have unilaterally decided to terminate the relationship between SpotterNetwork's support and Stormtrack. I have witnessed multiple users unable to receive support weeks after initiating help threads on the forum. I find this lack of response from SpotterNetwork officials disappointing and a failure to hold up their end of the agreement that was made years ago, before I took over management of this site. In my opinion, having Stormtrack users sit and wait for so long to receive help on SpotterNetwork issues on the Stormtrack forums reflects poorly not only on SpotterNetwork, but on Stormtrack and (by association) me as well. Since the issue has not been satisfactorily addressed, I no longer wish for the Stormtrack forum to be associated with SpotterNetwork.

    I apologize to those who continue to have issues with the service and continue to see their issues left unaddressed. Please understand that the connection between ST and SN was put in place long before I had any say over it. But now that I am the "captain of this ship," it is within my right (nay, duty) to make adjustments as I see necessary. Ending this relationship is such an adjustment.

    For those who continue to need help, I recommend navigating a web browswer to SpotterNetwork's About page, and seeking the individuals listed on that page for all further inquiries about SpotterNetwork.

    From this moment forward, the SpotterNetwork sub-forum has been hidden/deleted and there will be no assurance that any SpotterNetwork issues brought up in any of Stormtrack's other sub-forums will be addressed. Do not rely on Stormtrack for help with SpotterNetwork issues.

    Sincerely, Jeff D.

How close is to close?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ChristianTerry
  • Start date Start date
If you need to ask how close is too close, then you aren't ready to be close ;) It is all about comfort level. If you get right up to a tornado, be prepared to be owned by everything from 60 kt rfd to baseball or larger sized hail. Now this isn't always the case but the closer you get to the circulation the more likely you are to find yourself dodging missiles. I wouldn't encourage younger, inexperienced chasers to get close without chasing with someone else first. And not just one time either. A lot can happen during tornado time. You need to be able to make split second decisions and hope they pan out. You need to understand the environment you are dealing with. As shown in my June 17th chase log in the other thread, you may be watching the main tornado from a close distance, but miss the other tornado behind you barreling down on you. Your head needs to be a swivel. Also understanding the area you chase in is a MUST.... or else you may end up in a farm field like those yahoos did this year ;)
 
If you've never intercepted a tornado on a chase, I think a bigger concern than "how close do I get?" is "where is the tornado, and how do I simply get a view of it?" Just getting into the position to get a view and get a shot of the tornado is a feat for a beginner. After that I hope your natural instinct to survive kicks in. I think many beginner chasers push the panic button much, much earlier than more experienced chasers. This is a good thing, however, as you need to work up getting close. Everyone has pretty much nailed the important points: it depends on you, the storm and the situation, and the actual distance will vary greatly from mere yards to miles.

How about a diving analogy. You don't want to go in asking, "What's the highest thing I can dive off of and still survive." Instead you should work on just getting that first dive and then slowly work up to higher and higher dives, each time perfecting your form. You'll probably reach a point where you are capable of diving from higher platforms, but don't because its a lot more enjoyable and comfortable to dive from a lower one. Intercepting tornadoes is much the same way, you should build up to it.

If you actually lack the survival instinct (I've seen videos of chasers that seem to do), a general rule of thumb is if you can hear the tornado, you probably shouldn't get any closer (assuming there isn't a lot of background noise to obscure this sound and that you have a clear view to start with).
 
Danny Neal said:
If you need to ask how close is too close, then you aren't ready to be close ;) It is all about comfort level. If you get right up to a tornado, be prepared to be owned by everything from 60 kt rfd to baseball or larger sized hail. Now this isn't always the case but the closer you get to the circulation the more likely you are to find yourself dodging missiles. I wouldn't encourage younger, inexperienced chasers to get close without chasing with someone else first. And not just one time either. A lot can happen during tornado time. You need to be able to make split second decisions and hope they pan out. You need to understand the environment you are dealing with. As shown in my June 17th chase log in the other thread, you may be watching the main tornado from a close distance, but miss the other tornado behind you barreling down on you. Your head needs to be a swivel. Also understanding the area you chase in is a MUST.... or else you may end up in a farm field like those yahoos did this year ;)
Click to expand...


I just hope to even see one right now. I wasn't planning on getting right next to it on my first chase. Thanks for the input everybody, Im sucking it in. So its Tim Vasquez's handbook that I should be looking at? I need as much help as i can get.
 
Danny Neal said:
If you need to ask how close is too close, then you aren't ready to be close ;) It is all about comfort level. If you get right up to a tornado, be prepared to be owned by everything from 60 kt rfd to baseball or larger sized hail. Now this isn't always the case but the closer you get to the circulation the more likely you are to find yourself dodging missiles. I wouldn't encourage younger, inexperienced chasers to get close without chasing with someone else first. And not just one time either. A lot can happen during tornado time. You need to be able to make split second decisions and hope they pan out. You need to understand the environment you are dealing with. As shown in my June 17th chase log in the other thread, you may be watching the main tornado from a close distance, but miss the other tornado behind you barreling down on you. Your head needs to be a swivel. Also understanding the area you chase in is a MUST.... or else you may end up in a farm field like those yahoos did this year ;)
Click to expand...

Danny, if I understand correctly, does the RFD come around the vortex on the back left side and the inflow from the Front left? What wraps into the funnel from the right side?
 
Soak in as much info as you can Christian. From Tim's books to the internet, there is a whole lot of info to soak in. You'll never soak it all in, but read, read, and then read some more. Check out my Education links in my signature if you haven't already. There are some technical readings in there, but there's also a lot of stuff for beginners to read and enjoy.
 
ChristianTerry said:
Danny, if I understand correctly, does the RFD come around the vortex on the back left side and the inflow from the Front left? What wraps into the funnel from the right side?
Click to expand...

It depends what angle you are viewing the tornado from. Normally most chasers will enter the area of interest from the south. If you can beat the rfd from wrapping around the circulation you will have front row seats for an amazing show. You just have to be aware that if you wait there for too long, you may get more than you bargained for.

So if you are looking NNW at a tornado from <1 a mile away, when the whole meso moves across the road, the residual wrap around precip will probably blast you from the left (WNW - W). Some times the RFD will nail you from the north as well. On April 29th this year we were about a mile away from a tornado looking SSE at it. The wrap around precip nailed us from the NNW and as a result ruined my laptop (lol I left the car door open).

April 29th video -


May 22nd video - Intense RFD
We had front row seats for this tornado (seen below) but as that meso moved across the road we experienced an intense RFD as shown in the video below


10052231.jpg


 
Thanks for the input so far. My other question is the best method of getting internet or radar at a low cost. As of now, I have no way of getting info on storms except for my eyes.
 
This is off-topic and covered by other threads, but that's ok, I think. It wasn't so long ago that the state of practice for getting data was to stop by libraries and wi-fi hot spots. While data in the boonies is nice it also can distract from looking at the sky (and driving safely, if you're chasing solo).

There are more and more free wi-fi hotspots accessible with many mobile devices nowadays. The new generation of tablets is notable in that they pretty much do away with in-vehicle power issues.

Or... buddy up with someone who will nowcast for you and all you need is a cell phone. Quite possibly even from Stormtrack you can find another with similar interests and needs with whom you can swap off nowcasting. It's a great education for both and can help keep you out of trouble.
 
One of the best and most reliable ways of getting data is through a data card. I use Sprint which has been very reliable to me. Most of my chase buds use Sprint as well. The monthly charge will be about 65 bucks with a 2 year contract. I don't know if this is within your budget or not, but it's very well worth it if you can squeeze it in.
 
Danny Neal said:
It depends what angle you are viewing the tornado from. Normally most chasers will enter the area of interest from the south. If you can beat the rfd from wrapping around the circulation you will have front row seats for an amazing show. You just have to be aware that if you wait there for too long, you may get more than you bargained for.




May 22nd video - Intense RFD
We had front row seats for this tornado (seen below) but as that meso moved across the road we experienced an intense RFD as shown in the video below


10052231.jpg


Click to expand...

We ended up a little bit closer to this tornado... our first time plains chaser was giving us a Reed Timmer moment yelling "Back-up, Back-up!!"

We ended up reversing about 50 feet as this thing lost it's punch just before reaching the road about 1/3 mile ahead of us. Certainly the closest I've ever been to a tornado... and that RFD was sick.

I feel that we were safe from the main circulation but with that kind of RFD your just waiting for a satellite or some unexpected visitor to come out of the blue. A bit nerving but looking back I wish the Tor would have continued with the previous intensity as my video would have kicked ASS.

Getting close is a matter of situational awareness and having the options to quickly flee, those getting close to fast moving tornadoes are asking for it, (ie: May 10 Wakita, OK area).
 
Christian, you seem like you are wanting to do things the right way and have a lot of questions. I've only been chasing since 2006 and one thing I realized was that until I got out there there were a lot more questions I didn't know that needed to be asked. Books are great and Tim V's are some of the best but there's not a book out there that can ever replace chasing with someone who has been doing it for a while. You will learn a whole lot more in a much shorter time if you combine reading books, watching videos, and chasing with an experienced chaser. If you don't know anyone who can help, there are some great tour outfits.

It's one thing to keep your distance, but it's another thing to know HOW to keep your distance. It is possible to be at a safe distance from one tornado and another one touch down closer. Go to Convective Addiction's website and order Bullseye Bowdle and see what kind of trouble knowledgeable and experienced chasers can get into. Tornadoes can be hypnotizing and they can be moving at speeds much greater than it looks like.

Also, often a tornado will be rain wrapped posing another not-so-obvious hazard. That rain shaft that you drive into might have a surprise in store for you. And a tornado in it's rope stage can move very erratically as it is pushed around by RFD.

Another thing to consider is that tornadoes don't always have a condensation funnel all the way to the ground. And many of these can be powerful enough to pose a threat to your safety in a vehicle. You have to know what you are looking at, where you are in relation to the storm, etc... And the radar software has it's limitations as well. It takes 4 1/2 to 6 minutes for a WSR-88 radar to make a complete sweep, so your image might be that old or older. Lots can change in that amount of time. Take May 10 of this year, the Wakita/Medord tornado was about 5 miles ahead of the hook echo due to the storm motion being over 60MPH.

I'm not trying to discourage you from chasing, but rather encourage you to get some help learning the ropes. It will help you find the tornadoes, stay safe, and have more fun in the long run.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Adding my .02 here simply by stating how close is TOO close is a personal call only you can make. Some chasers like to get really up close and personal and others prefer to stay back, the important thing is they fully understand the risks involved in making such decisions especially when choosing to get close. Only experience can teach you those things.

There isn't anything else I can advise that hasn't already been said. In the end it comes down to you and your comfort level.
 
I'll have new chasers with me this year....so I likely wouldn't take as many chances as I would being solo. However....I want to get close enough to have a high "brown pants factor" as Mike Rowe likes to say. Ellinwood....you paying attention!

Winds and lightning don't bother me at all. I've been through enough hurricanes now that I'm use to and somewhat relate to what tolerances high winds have. Been through some decent plains chases too, and it's this factor that does still get me worried. In hurricanes I'm able to use buildings and structures to protect my vehicles from the debris...but in the plains that doesn't exist. I still find that the dangers of debris while chasing is just crazy dangerous. As others have said...even the RFD and other surround elements can bring extreme dangers...not just the tornado itself. But I will still take on a bit of danger...it's just how I roll.
 
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