Handling Night-time tornadoes

[Jason Harris]

Couldn't find the thread where Jeff Snyder I believe addressed the recent PDS for nighttime threat in SE and someone mentioned the new NWS policy, which
is on the main weather.gov page today:

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20091214_tornado.html

The NOAA Storm Prediction Center, in conjunction with local National Weather Service offices across the country, is now issuing new public severe weather outlooks when forecast conditions are favorable for strong and violent tornadoes to occur overnigh

Also, although some tips/experiences exist in other threads, I'm curious to see
if anyone has anything new or emphatic to add about nighttime chasing--when was it "worth" it? Or as spotters/chasers, who feels a responsibility to be out at night if there's a solid chance of a tornado?

Also, as an EL Nino year, NWS is expecting action in FL/Gulf states:

The strongest winter tornado activity in the United States this winter is expected to be over Florida and the Gulf Coast region due to the current El Niño, Schaefer warned.

Wonder if indeed the new year will bring the post-twilight twisters--lousy for photographs/video, hard to chase, and dangerous:

Chances of a tornado increase along the Gulf Coast with the current El Niño, a large-scale weather pattern associated with warming of sea surface temperatures in the equatorial Pacific. As these waters warm, they force the development of a stronger-than-average jet stream emanating from the eastern Pacific and extending across the southern tier of the United States. The impact of this jet stream is most apparent from January through late March when it enhances severe thunderstorm and tornado potential over coastal states.

Nearly 80 percent of cool-season tornado deaths in Florida occur during El Niños, many after dark. This type of deadly nighttime tornado activity occurred as recently as February 2007 when an outbreak caused 21 fatalities and 76 injuries, and February 1998, when tornadoes killed 42 people and injured 259. Other recent deadly cold season tornado outbreaks have affected parts of Georgia, Texas and Mississippi during El Niño years.

 

[Skip Talbot]

This has been discussed here before, but I think this is one of the areas of chasing where technology helps a great deal. Without realtime data, night chasing is an order of magnitude more dangerous than daytime chasing. Situational awareness is much harder to maintain at night once you lose your visual reference. So I think as cell coverage, software, and hardware improves, night chasing becomes more accessible and safer. If you can safely approach a supercell at night and bag a tornado backlit by lightning, its more than worth it and almost as rewarding as bagging during the day.

 

[Tim Stoecklein]

How do I handle night time tornadoes? From the comfort of home

Seriously, I think Skip made a very good point that technology helps out greatly in the after-dark chase arena. I would throw out a cautionary note to those relying primarily on data during night chases, make sure it's updating.

Not to draw a line between chasing and acting as a wx spotter, but I tend to place myself in the latter group after sunset. I don't take as many liberties with a storm after dark, but rather keep a greater distance and do my best to provide reports.

I do feel a bit of a responsibility to make an effort as a wx spotter after dark, mostly because the technology and knowledge I use while chasing translates to a safer effort than our "average Joe" spotter who is relying on a keen net control and a hopefully well placed lightning bolt lighting the structure to stay out of harms way.

To be honest, I stayed a FAR distance from storms after dark during my first several years of chasing because I just didn't feel safe/comfortable with my knowledge of storm structure. I'd encourage any newbie (not sayin you are one) to do the same. So many more things can go wrong after dark....

 

[MatthewCarman]

Here is some past discusion on chasing at night for those interested:

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=20275&highlight=nighttime+chasing

I know there was other threads but that is all the search brought up.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

when was it "worth" it?

http://www.extremeinstability.com/wp/07-0626wp.jpg

http://www.extremeinstability.com/wp/07-0631wp.jpg

Before that got to that position, that thing was incredible, even in the dark.

http://www.extremeinstability.com/07-3-28.htm

It can be very much worth it at night. You can see enough, enough times, to enjoy it thoroughly.

As far as dangers, I still don't think it is much more dangerous at night...especially if you already knew what you were doing with storm structure and you had some access to data. Data isn't the soul thing to rely on obviously, but yeah, it's a huge help when you are in rain and wondering what sort of storms are around you. I think you're just as visually clueless in a rain core during the day as you are at night. Out of the core, 99% of the time there is enough lightning to get a great idea of what is going on. Just will never see the massive increase in danger at night over day. Perhaps with fast moving storms I guess. But even those during the day in many areas can be tough to see well soon enough.

 

[Lanny Dean]

Again, I know we have discussed this in detail but IMO it deserves as much attention as we can give it especially regarding the "newbie" issues.

No doubt I have had my share of nightime tornadoes and as such, I would much rather chase one during daylight hours. But we all know that eventually an event will come that will require us to chase at night if we want to participate in chasing as a whole. It's just the nature of the beast and a few examples would be:
Greensburg, Wakeeny, Bird City, Stroud, Beaver, Holly Colorado and many many others.

After Greensburg, I personally do not like chasing after dark and unless it is a situation in where I know the area (roads, escape routes and the like) I just will not do it anymore.
I guess it is a personal chioce that one has to make given the situation and or circumstance.

Just my 2

 

[Jason Foster]

All I'm going to say is I love chasing after dark. It is hard as hell (even with new tech) and I completely and fully understand the extreme risk and foolishness that comes along with such activity....but I still love it, and will likely do more of it.

Add: Favorite nighttime chase was with Amos M. back in 2004 Here is the ST report from him (I wasn't an active member back then): http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showpost.php?p=6294&postcount=4
2nd add:
Photo from Amos M. full page summary (www.cycloneroad.com) of the tornado we saw (I used Amos's camera since he was driving):

 

[Skip Talbot]

I'll second Mike and Lanny on 3/28/07 definitely being worth the night chase:

Video grab Jerry Funfsinn got from our 3/28/07 chase in NW KS. Given the opportunity to see something like that is well worth take the extra precautions and risks associated with night chasing.

 

[Andrew Ryan]

All I'm going to say is I love chasing after dark. It is hard as hell (even with new tech) and I completely and fully understand the extreme risk and foolishness that comes along with such activity....but I still love it, and will likely do more of it.

I'll second that thought. I've done it on many occasions and will continue to do it in the future. I guess nothing beats creepiness watching a tornado coming down with every flash of lightning.

I usually keep quite distance (~5-10 miles) from the storm since it's harder to tell what's going on after dark.

 

[Jason Boggs]

I don't really like chasing at night a whole lot. To do it, you better be on your toes at all times. Since I chase for a local tv station, I do chase when severe wx is in our viewing area. I've seen a few tornadoes at night, but nothing like the Clovis, NM tornado in 07. This beast was at times up to a half mile wide when I first saw it. When I got the video of it, it was still pretty darn big. My chase partner did a phoner with the tv station, and hopefully we helped save lives.

video still

 

[Stephen Barabas]

Do what they did in 'Twister' and hide in a bunker at a drive in movie theater, obviously.

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

http://www.extremeinstability.com/wp/07-0626wp.jpg

http://www.extremeinstability.com/wp/07-0631wp.jpg

Before that got to that position, that thing was incredible, even in the dark.

http://www.extremeinstability.com/07-3-28.htm

It can be very much worth it at night. You can see enough, enough times, to enjoy it thoroughly.

That's funny -- I was just about to head to your site to find those pics as an example of how it can be worth it.

Don't do much night chasing myself (I don't trust myself not to get myself killed just yet -- I tend to not notice when the data stops updating), but if you're good at it like Mike is, you can get some incredible images.

 

[Dustin Wilcox]

I enjoy night chasing at times as much as day time chasing; not because of what I get to catch on film or photograph (video and stills come second to my enjoyment), but more because of the challenge and excitement it entails. One of my most taxing chases was the night time tornadoes on 3/28, out in the middle of nowhere, without data, no phone reception, battling mud roads, chasing fast moving large tornadoes (same tornadoes I think Skip posted) it was a true challenge and a blast; many other night time tornadoes come to mind too, all have been exciting and intense. I personally enjoy the challenge of a good night chase; it seems to break up the monotony of your run of the mill day chase.

 

[Chris Wilburn]

I also enjoy a good night chase. I haven't seen many tornadoes at night, but the thrill is often there more than day chases. The night of Greensburg was scary as hell though! I didn't see the actual Greensburg tornado, but one of the very large tornadoes that followed. I saw the tornado that hit Macksville from about 2 miles or less away between lightning flashes. I have never experienced such violent inflow with any other storm. I didn't have a visual of the wedge for a while when I first came upon the storm. This made things quite nerve racking at first. I was worried about satellite tornadoes as well.

Of course radar is definitely your best friend at night because most of your visual cues are hard to see. Lighting only flashes every so often and it's hard to find the details of the updraft area at times. I do enjoy a really good night chase & have no problems chasing at night.

 

[John Farley]

Just remember if you choose to chase at night that the storm is not the only thing you have to worry about. This applies not only to actively chasing, but also to just driving home or to the nearest motel after the chase. Years ago, on the way home from a chase after dark, I hit a stretch of flooded road that I could not see until I was in it. Not fun at 60 mph. Luckily it was only a short stretch, and I lived to tell about it. Also that same night - and this was well before the availability of constant data - I passed within a mile or two of what was 2 days later determined to be a 15-mile tornado path. It was rain-wrapped and the only initial report was a wind damage report of an ambulance blown off a road. All I saw was tons of rain and lightning. Other hazards include deer and downed trees and powerlines - all of which you may be less likely to see if there is heavy rain falling and/or you are distracted by the storm.

Generally, I don't chase at night period, but often I do end up driving in lousy conditions at night after a chase. The one time I will consider night-time chasing is if there is an isolated, persistent supercell - but even then, only from a greater distance than during the day.