Experimental Changes to NWS Warnings

[rdale]

"That makes me wonder....wouldn't a vehicle be more likely to sustain damage from hail while moving than it would if it were parked? "

Sure - but what does that have to do with a Severe Thunderstorm Warning? Do people stop driving their cars when one is issued? Absolutely not... Same as the farmers - there's nothing that can be done. The best thing NWS can do is make the SVR actually mean something, and this is a good step!

 

[Jeff Wear]

Sure - but what does that have to do with a Severe Thunderstorm Warning? Do people stop driving their cars when one is issued? Absolutely not.

From what I've observed people go to great lengths to avoid driving into hail of any size....I routinely see people crowding under overpasses and gas station overhangs even with hail that's probably too small to dent vehicles. I know if I were concerned about hail damage to my car, and I had information that the storm I am about to drive into contained hail large enough to damage my vehicle, that would factor into my decision whether or not I drove into the storm.

 

[rdale]

"I routinely see people crowding under overpasses and gas station overhangs even with hail that's probably too small to dent vehicles."

Agreed - but do they pull over because a Severe Thunderstorm Warning was issued, or because they starting hearing small hail pings on their hood?

 

[Robert Dewey]

I had to pull over for hail about the size of dimes last year... It was raining/hailing/blowing so hard that you couldn't see where the road was (couldn't see much past the hood)... It really wasn't the hail that was bad, but the rainfall rates. Combine that with "city chasing", bad road networks, etc., and you got trouble. I just pulled over and waited it out in a parking lot.

Like Rob Dale said, I don't think people pull over because of the warning, but because of the hail actually hitting their car. When a warning is issued, most people think "it probably won't hit us", and continue on with life. The fact is, most severe thunderstorms (the actual area that is hit by severe criteria) is very small, usually well smaller than a county, and even a city for that matter... Therefore, when you warn an entire county, the fact is true that about 95% of people within that county never get a severe thunderstorm. The only example I can think of where wind damage may by widespread, covering counties or even many counties, would be a large derecho/bow echo situation.

 

[Jeff Wear]

I think we're getting a little sidetracked from the main issue here - my main point was that based on personal experience I disagree that 1" diameter hail is the absolute lowest limit damage occurs to vehicles....the only reason I brought up the issue of moving vehicles was that I was curious if that was a factor in making 3/4 and 7/8 inch hail more damaging than if the car were parked, and that question was answered to my satisfaction.

 

[Tim Stoecklein]

I just attended the yearly spotter class, my first from the folks at TOP, and they hit on the new criteria. It was mentioned on another list that ICT was the only CWA in Kansas that was using the experimental criteria, but we were told otherwise. Mike said that all offices in the state of Kansas, as well as a few in NE and MO, are going to be using the 1" criteria. FYI

Tim

 

[Mike Umscheid]

Originally posted by Tim Stoecklein
I just attended the yearly spotter class, my first from the folks at TOP, and they hit on the new criteria. It was mentioned on another list that ICT was the only CWA in Kansas that was using the experimental criteria, but we were told otherwise. Mike said that all offices in the state of Kansas, as well as a few in NE and MO, are going to be using the 1\" criteria. FYI

Tim

It has been decided that all offices that have Kansas counties in their CWA will be participating in the experimental 1" SVR hail lower end threshold. This would include, I'm pretty sure, but may not be limited to.. DDC, GLD, GID, TOP, EAX, ICT, SGF. This is an expanded list of participating CWAs that were listed on another forum recently (only ICT, EAX, SGF).

-Mike U in Dodge

 

[Tim Stoecklein]

Thanks Mike, that's a better explanation than I was able to provide I see none other than Mike U. will be a guest at the Advanced Spotter class in Douglas County as well :wink:

Tim