Does it Cost $$$ To Join ST Now??

[Steve Miller]

When we "support" ST, how about making the supporting accounts ad-free? At least google ad-free...
I pay $25 per year at JeepForum.com for an ad-free experience as well as access to a special area of discussion. Can ST do something like this?
Thoughts?

 

[Shane Adams]

So basically those that are on the cusp of storm chasing but haven't, and those that have a passion for severe weather but either haven't had the time to go out and chase or haven't got around to do it should not be allowed here? A lot of good people come here to gain valuable knowledge from the experienced chases about all kinds of things.. which I figured to be a compliment.. and if it was you in charge, you'd want that to stop?

Not to mention that a large majority of the discussion topics and arguing points on this site would never exist if all of the new learners/non-chasers etc. weren't allowed here. Differing ideas and questions is what makes this site fun and interesting, keeping it from being bland and dry.

I could only imagine how exciting a forum like yours would be..

There's nothing wrong with experienced members of any given activity wanting to talk shop amongst themselves without having to turn everything said into a lesson for novice folk or non-chasers. To simply expect chasers to automatically make every second of their time/effort count towards education is rude and arrogant. Sometimes, people who are good at something just want to shoot the bull between their own kind, without the pressure and expectation of schooling everyone around them who doesn't understand every word they're saying.

How many of you have gone through the archives on the education section? There's enough knowledge that's been shared there to keep anyone too busy to be whining on this thread about elitism or other crap. The experienced members of this forum who've been here for years, from the very beginning, and who've made this forum what it is, have dealt a wealth of knowledge to this site. Instead of crying about being left out of the Big Boy discussions, why not go check it out for yourself if you feel you deserve to be here?

EDIT: Bring back the ST Core

 

[Darren Addy]

More power to Tim Vasquez to do whatever the heck he wants to with Stormtrack.

IMHO he doesn't do as much as he could with monetizing the "brand". He could have gone the Metafilter route (which is also 100% user-generated content) and simply closed it to any new registrations for a good while and then opening them up for $5 each. This makes membership even more valuable (because you can't have one). While memberships were locked he could have auctioned a few off on eBay (just guessing that they would bring more than $5).

I really don't know why there is no "official" Stormtrack merchandise any more (or is there)? An eCommerce store for mugs, t-shirts, decals, license plate frames, etc. would probably generate a fair amount of change. (Go with Prestashops or Magento for the free eCommerce software).

Regarding having a decent server/internet connection - stormtrack is a .org domain. There would be no problem with an .edu hosting it and there are some who would probably welcome it for free - or banner considerations - (those with a decent meteorological program). I gotta believe that there are departments around the country that would give your server admin full access via ssh or something.

 

[Robert Dewey]

Not to mention that a large majority of the discussion topics and arguing points on this site would never exist if all of the new learners/non-chasers etc. weren't allowed here. Differing ideas and questions is what makes this site fun and interesting, keeping it from being bland and dry.

To be honest, I'd rather see less discussions and more quality.

FWIW... the NOW thread for today's event looks pretty clean for a change.

 

[Justin Wiley]

There's nothing wrong with experienced members of any given activity wanting to talk shop amongst themselves without having to turn everything said into a lesson for novice folk or non-chasers. To simply expect chasers to automatically make every second of their time/effort count towards education is rude and arrogant. Sometimes, people who are good at something just want to shoot the bull between their own kind, without the pressure and expectation of schooling everyone around them who doesn't understand every word they're saying.

How many of you have gone through the archives on the education section? There's enough knowledge that's been shared there to keep anyone too busy to be whining on this thread about elitism or other crap. The experienced members of this forum who've been here for years, from the very beginning, and who've made this forum what it is, have dealt a wealth of knowledge to this site. Instead of crying about being left out of the Big Boy discussions, why not go check it out for yourself if you feel you deserve to be here?

EDIT: Bring back the ST Core

I'm not crying. Crying would involve saying something along the lines of "I hate this site. I'm never coming back".

Some people don't get satisfaction or "feel goodiness" out of sharing the wealth of knowledge they possess. You may not be one of them, which is fine. But why become a killjoy for others? Everyone was a newb once, even you, believe it or not. I just don't see the need to squash that cycle.

No one forces anybody to read the "newbie" topics. No one forces anybody to succumb to the "pressures" and "expectations" of explaining things all the time. Or maybe they do and I'm just not aware..??

 

[Justin Wiley]

To be honest, I'd rather see less discussions and more quality.

So basically less of what you're participating in right now?

 

[Tim Vasquez]

When we "support" ST, how about making the supporting accounts ad-free? At least google ad-free... I pay $25 per year at JeepForum.com for an ad-free experience as well as access to a special area of discussion. Can ST do something like this?

We will be keeping the ads. But if they bother you, just use Adblock and block them: http://adblock.mozdev.org/ We don't use any scripts here to force people to see them, and there's no stigma about blocking them as far as I'm concerned.

Tim

 

[Bob Hartig]

I don't see that shop talk among experienced chasers and simpler discussions that help new chasers get up to snuff are mutually exclusive. The beginners' and advanced categories exist to help separate the two, and every person has a choice whether or not to participate in a given thread.

However, after the cardioid fiasco, I agree that some criteria ought to be imposed for participation in the forum. It might involve a simple questionnaire to determine why a person wants to join, and where an applicant stands in the learning curve. Maybe a waiting period could be imposed for people who are so green that they can't participate fruitfully--give 'em a FAQ with links to basic self-education resources, require them to follow it, and let them follow the discussions as silent observers for a minimum of XX months, so they can see how different concepts play out in the various threads and familiarize themselves with the culture of Stormtrack.

I'm just tossing out some ideas; the details would obviously need to be hashed out. The point is, I don't see that Stormtrack needs to shut out new chasers in order to enhance the quality of discussions. I do, however, think that some tighter criteria would help.

 

[Tarmo Tanilsoo]

Well.. I consider myself lucky I joined when there wasn't registration fee.. International users may be left without luck - at least I do not have a credit card, and I can only make monetary transactions only via usual bank and even that at best only within European Union. But well, if it helps to keep the forum afloat... Not very much complaining here.

P.S: I appreciate very much that I was grandfathered in. If I wasn't in Europe with no ability to make payments to U.S by other means than Western Union, I'd also have made a donation.

 

[joel ewing]

FWIW, I've been a S.T. subscriber since it was literally a magazine that arrived in my mailbox bi-monthly. I got my first edition in '84 or '85. I still have every one of those issues, including the one where Dave Hoadley "passed the torch" to Tim Marshall. A few years after that, I vividly remember the long running, heated arguments amongst S.Trackers when Tim M. introduced the idea of eliminating S.T. as a hard-copy magazine and making it web-based. You think this little mini "feather-ruffling exercise" we're going thru right now in this thread has a few heated overtones...man, this is a skateboard compared to a Z-06 Vette! Seriously, S.T. almost didn't survive. IMO, thank God it did.
I believe that S.T. members would do well to realize that S.Track....the way we know it today...is indeed still a magazine. My guess is that most members today know it only as an online entity. This, in turn, might tend to skew member's perceptions into thinking that there is minimal time and money involved to produce this product. I submit that if we were all receiving a tangible, hard-copy magazine in our mailboxes, few would gripe at paying a reasonable subscription fee. Leafing thru a magazine in your hands makes one feel justified about paying a subscription fee, because you can see, smell and feel the embodiment of somebody's hard work. You lose that entirely by reading online.
I've never been invited to the "other" forum. Who knows, it might be an age thing (I'm 54...a lot of subscribers are a lot younger...and to a point, I understand.) And although I've been chasing for over 20 years, I've always quickly admitted that I'm not a meteorologist....and I've never once tried to bulls--t anybody that I am. Perhaps I've offended a few people (by calling them on what I've perceived is their bulls--t). But it's cool. I truly love S. Track, and wouldn't bail if given the chance. There are many, many intelligent, thought provoking guys and gals in here that I thoroughly look forward to hearing from..year in and year out. All in all....I think that StormTrack is a helluva lot of bang for my buck.

 

[Terry Tyler]

I don't know why anyone cares.. Simply put 5$ is nothing to pay for the amount of knowledge that can be gained from those on this site.

95% of you complaining on this thread did not have to pay the fine anyways, so stop whining.

I agree, if someone has a problem with a $5 fee to be a member then they probably dont belong here in the first place. Im sorry if that offends some of you out there, but $5 wont buy you a hamburger these days. If being a member of this board isnt worth the cost of a hamburger then what does that say?

Personally, i think its a good idea. Since i quit posting a while ago, it seems there has been an incredible influx of new users and new thread topics. Almost looks like a new board. All those features cost money im sure, and even if they are making more money then they are paying for server costs. Who cares, operating costs and profit margins are no ones buisiness but the owners. An honorable man would hope they do make a profit because ST does provides a valuable place to host your work. I dont know how anyone can expect someone to work for free all the time.

 

[Jason Foster]

Remind me Tim V. how long does the Junior Membership tag last these days?

 

[Robert Dewey]

So basically less of what you're participating in right now?

No. Less of the threads I'm not commenting in

 

[Lonnie Kopecky]

I'm a "newbie" to Stormtrack, but can (or may) I please say a few words about membership fees. I would hate to be kicked off of Stormtrack because I was "new". In the short time since I have joined (June 2009) I have learned so much more about weather, chasing and equipment then I ever learned in my spotter training classes. Following Stormtrack members comments on the forum before the storm, during the storm and after the storm has greatly increased my understanding of storms, especially when it was a storm that was nearby and I was also watching. In other words, I am willing to pay a membership fee to be a member of such a valuable forum.

 

[Danny Neal]

No one is kicking anyone out and if you are already a member (as I understand it) you are free from charges. ONLY the people who sign up now (or maybe a couple days ago) would be subject. If someone (new or not) is willing to learn and follow a couple simple rules I see no tension or problems. It thumbs down to those who like to arm chair quarterback and nitpick from the sidelines where most problems arise. Welcome Lonnie and I am glad you chose Stormtrack as a learning asset because that's exactly what it is to most people.

BTW I am on board with Shane's comments RE: the core.

 

[Robert Dewey]

Without looking like too much of a ST newbie (and disregarding my join date), what's "the core"? lol

 

[Lanny Dean]

This thread is giving me a headache. People saying the same damn thing over and over. What Tim does or does not with monies he may or may not accumulate from this forum is not any of my concern, nor should it be anyone else's concern.
This is a private forum, not a public one. To my knowledge, it has always been a private forum and as we all know, it takes some financial backing/funding to promote said forum.

It is very simple really...if people want to join, its gonna cost them $5. If money is an issue and they dont want to join because of that, then they sure as hell do not belong on the same forum as the rest of us.
Just my opinion, take it or leave it.
they sure as hell dont belong on the same forum that

 

[Jason Bolt]

I guess I'd like to challenge everyone to nut up and pay the supporter fee. Honestly, if you hadn't gotten $18 worth or info/entertainment/traffic here you wouldn't still be here!

Buy now while they are still running the special: Two supporter sig tags for the price of one!

 

[Bob Hartig]

Buy now while they are still running the special: Two supporter sig tags for the price of one!

And a steal at twice the price!

 

[Marcus Hicks]

I just ponied up. Well worth the $$. I've gained a ton of knowledge from the people and information on this site. I personally don't care where the money goes as it's not my concern. Just keep ST going. Looks like I got the 2 for one deal too.

 

[Tim Vasquez]

Just a few quick responses:

* Jason: The Junior Member tag identifies the automatic 30-day probationary window for all new users which restricts access to Bar & Grill and Target Area. This was originally developed to cut down some of the problems we had in those forums back in 2006 or 2007. Myself and the mods will have to have some discussion this month on where to go with that. As the user group schemes have gotten jumbled with our recent changes, there's a good chance the board has stopped assigning Junior Member status.

* Tarmo: There's always room for exceptions based on situation like what you describe; it's circumstantial.

* The Core was an ill-fated idea we had in July 2004 to create an inner sanctum of quality and experience, borrowing from the concepts of CFDG. Just before this happened we had a small run of veterans depart for CFDG and there was some concern we were going to lose a lot of experience, so it was an attempt to develop the kind of noise-free and private environment these folks wanted. Invitations were based largely on exceptional quality of posts or solid accomplishments, but it took only about five days before it got outed. We took a lot of heat for segregating the site and creating what was basically a caste system, and in retrospect the whole thing was a really poor decision on my part, probably THE worst in my 13 years of running the site. If you dig around in the archives you may find some illuminating posts about at all. Feel free to split off another thread about the Core if you all feel like discussing it further.

Tim

 

[Ryan Wichman]

Maybe Tim and some older members can bring some light to this, but has there been an discussion about reviving the magazine aspect of ST? I do not know exactly what was in said magazine but I think it would be really cool to put on together on a quarterly basis based on what has been going on in the world of severe weather. Including related published papers by members, case studies or just editorials. I know a lot of this is covered online here in forums, but having a hard copy with some pictures included and the sort would be pretty neat to bring back.

 

[MatthewCarman]

Some people just don't get it. How in the world is a $5 fee going to bring in low quality posters? As opposed to a $0.00 fee? Really? It doesn't seem that the $5 is really about server costs. Sure those costs need covered but Tim could have tried to cover them different ways. This hopefully kills two birds with one stone. Costs get covered and hopefully this deters the huge influx of noise contributers who seem to be clogging up the site. I actually would be for a slightly higher cost and annual is fine.

I said a 5$ fee "could" bring in some low quality posters. I never said it would. I think we will get some low quality posters no matter how it is done. I think everyone who joins just needs to get the hang of how this forum is ran. I know at first I posted alot of low quality posts and have since learned from it. I don't feel a 5$ fee is a good or bad thing. I think this is a good forum and it is well worth the 5$ fee. Most other weather forums can't compete.

I do have a question for you Tim. I donated and recieved the membership for life deal but it said it was only for 25 years which is not what the description says. I was just curious if this was a mistake? I plan to donate every year if I can so that is fine if it is only for 25 years.

 

[Dustin Wilcox]

What Tim does or does not with monies he may or may not accumulate from this forum is not any of my concern, nor should it be anyone else's concern.
This is a private forum, not a public one.

Just my humble opinion, but anytime donations are called for and made (regardless if it’s a public or private endeavor), it is only with decency that the donator (should he/she be interested) be allowed to have some sort of idea how their donation is being allocated. I agree with many, $5 is peanuts and I see nothing wrong with charging whatever price for a FEE to join the forum (regardless of how that revenue is being allocated). That being said, I don't feel the same when it comes to donations. When I heard it now cost to join, and knowing many donations have been made and much ad space sold, it made me question the many times I've seen it implied that donations were needed to "fund the website operation and other unforeseen expenses (like if we have to migrate to a bigger server during a big chase week), and hopefully soon we will be able to give moderators a small stipend for their volunteer work" Now I'm no server and web operation person and I have no idea what it costs to operate something such as ST, perhaps it's a struggle to fund with the given revenue, were that the case, I'd have no problem throwing money into the pot and being a "StormTrack Supporter"; now if revenue is far greater than costs, rather than blindly funding hidden interests, I'd prefer to send my donation to a worthwhile charity, rather than being a "Unknown Supporter". Now if the first scenario were the case (struggle to keep revenue near costs) as has been “vaguely” implied in the past, I'd think the admins would openly state that, and in doing so surely would boost donations; if the second scenario (revenue greater than costs) I can fully understand them wanting to keep quiet, just hope they too than understand the negative stigma that creates.

 

[Robert Dewey]

Ah yeah, now I remember the core... I can't believe I completely forgot about the whole debate.