County Officials Critical of Storm Chasers

[David Drummond]

True; but at the same time, before you dedicated "a large portion of your life" to storm chasing there was a day when you'd never done it before and were just trying it out for the first time.

How many of those Kansas license plates with no laptop computers or radio antennas or mounted streaming dashcams were really first-timers instead of one-timers? How many of them were genuinely interested in weather but did not have the financial wherewithal to go drive far from home to chase storms, and were suddenly presented with this close-to-home opportunity?

Well it's hard to compare those times, with current times (that was in the mid-80s). It was rare to run in to ANYONE that "storm chased" back then, really the only way most kept up with what the few others was doing was Storm Track Magazine, the printed version. Most people thought you were some kind of nut when you told them you went out and watched storms. It definitely was NOT the cool thing to do in most people's minds.

I know everyone has to start some place.

I guess a more direct answer, when I started, I really had no idea that anyone outside of researchers (due to the couple of TV shows that had been out) and the few storm spotters that existed, ever intentionally went out to look at storms, especially being out here in west Texas.

The difference is today, you can decide tonight you are a storm chaser, spend the night putting a really nice website up proclaiming you have been chasing for the last 10 years, and you are instantly a storm chasing veteran, even though you have never been out. It's difficult to take anyone at face value any more, so you have to start looking for other indicators. What ever happened about earning experience and respect through effort and results?

 

[David Drummond]

Look at how Chris Novy has been ridiculed and slammed for "playing chaser police". You can't even call out someone for passing on the shoulder on a highway without ruffling feathers.

Well to be fair, some of that criticism, even from me, has come from him having video of certain things, and taking them way out of context to prove some sort of point in his presentations, as well as begging chasers for video for those presentations, only to turn around and use it against them, and even, at least in my case, used some of my video without my permission. Then he turned around and did some of the things he preached against. So at least in that case, it was more than just him calling out some bad behavior that brought that criticism on.

 

[Jake Orosi]

It's difficult to take anyone at face value any more, so you have to start looking for other indicators. What ever happened about earning experience and respect through effort and results?

Nothing; but the indicators you've picked are unfair beyond a certain extent. How does the presence of a laptop or a dashcam in the vehicle suggest effort? To me all that suggests is money. Why does an in-state license plate likely represent a lack of experience? To me it is meaningless.

Imagine two chasers by the side of the road, out of their vehicles and videotaping a tornado. They both have laptops in their respective cars. One of them decided where the setup would be two days ago by analyzing raw data and making his own forecast; the other saw TWC's TorCon report for today yesterday afternoon and made sure to come to this particular region, and after that, he noticed the other chaser on SN and shadowed him until coming upon this tornado. Do you propose you could tell which is which by looking at their vehicles? Of course not - but clearly you think one has earned "respect" and one has not; so how do you discern?

 

[David Drummond]

I'm sorry, please quote me where I ever said the presence of chase equipment earned my respect. I never said that. If it's meaningless to you, that is fine, that's all that matters to you, and whether or not it means anything to me, still won't mean anything to you.

You're trying to generalize to much of what I am saying. I'm putting the line between people that have an obvious desire and intent to chase for more than just one high risk day and those that heard the news, heard the tornado warning for their county, and saw a buttload of chasers roll through town and decided to jump in the car and go.

What I saw out there, it was a ratio of about 25% chasers, and 75% of those other people. How do I know. Seeing people on the road out there for 28 years has given me a pretty good insight. I may not always guess them correctly, but I'm sure I'm right more than I am wrong.

And yes, I do think no one has any business out there chasing storms until they have at least made an effort to educate themselves a little bit on storm features and behavior. It's not that hard. The information is readily available. You don't have to forecast, but you at least need to know what you are looking at, and if a person isn't willing to make at least that small of an effort, your not a chaser in my book, and I won't apologize for feeling that way. I wouldn't attempt any sort of hobby or activity that might put myself in danger without at least educating myself on it a little bit first. IMO, that's a pretty stupid thing to do. This isn't like following the ambulance down to the corner to see the wreck. There are plenty of things in the storm environment that can potentially hurt or kill you if you have not educated and prepared yourself for them, the least of which might be the tornado itself.

In your example, regardless of how each one arrived at that location, they both obviously set out to be a storm chaser before the tornado warning dropped, and that was more my point. A ton of people were on the roads, that had no idea they were going to go storm chasing when they woke up that morning. Can I prove that?...of course not, but I'd certainly bet money on it.

I realize not every chaser has certain equipment. I know some of them. Some of them I've known for years and years and are well experienced and respected. No one out there needs nor requires my respect or approval to chase storms. But if you want it, I want to see consistency and results, not just a great looking website (or chase vehicle for that matter) and your name on Spotter Network.

 

[Danny Neal]

So many arguments and ideas over a hobby that features grown men and women chasing spinning dark clouds.... I've been around the game for a while and have learned certain things. 1) High risks in the plains bring out people from all backgrounds.... One of the worst convergences I have seen or heard about was 5/19/10. A localized high risk directly over the OKC metro. I chased this day and chose a different target out of the high risk. People have eluded to this already. You don't HAVE to chase the target you know will already have 350,000 chasers on it. Look at those the other day that chose NW OK as opposed to KS/NE state line. Like it or not chasing has changed from the once unknown hobby. 2) There will never be legislation on chasing. Not possible. The line of excuses are endless. If asked why I have a laptop.... I say I am using GPS to get to an unknown location. If they ask why I have radar up, I reply because I am a concerned driver and noticed dark clouds on the horizon. Cameras? Just in case I get in a fender bender I always like to document the damage. Dash cam? I like to chronicle my road trips. See... I have an excuse for any argument a potential LEO may have. Won't happen. 3) "Real" vs "Poser" chasers..... Back a few years back I was really hard on newer chasers..... The ones that waltzed into the game and felt like they were entitled to something. I was hit hard by others with the line "who am I to say or voice my concern about who chases and why".... Well well well look at the can of worms that has been opened up. While legislation will probably never be passed.... it is worth noting that if certain county EM's decide to flex their muscles... a number of "targets" out there could be shook down for "speeding" and "stopping on the side of the road with a vest" etc. I know one such EM from the Altus, OK area that made a long diatribe on another forum about how he told his officers to come down hard on anyone suspected chasing. Whether he was just blowing smoke or for real... the notion and the dislike for some of us by some of them are prevalent. 4) I noticed some of the people complaining about the acts of others are notorious for being the first one to say.... "who cares, chase for yourself." Can't have it both ways. On the chase, I only care about myself.... theoretically speaking. I worry about my driving, my navigation, my judgement, my ethics, etc. I am in constant chat with the NWS (via NWSchat) I don't like Spotter Network, I never liked the idea. I try to make myself as un-noticeable as I can. I am not an official entity... I don't have bright flashing lights, a 1,000 antennas, logos plastered all over the place. I chase for me because I love severe weather, I love to document and experience it. It is not my primary goal thinking "I wonder how many lives I am going to save today" .... That logic is saved for my job as a firefighter in Chicago.

Personally I think a lot of people (a lot of newer chasers especially) take chasing far to seriously. Sure it is my life and passion.... but I just don't see the point in acting like you are doing some great public service when in reality most of those that actually CHASE storms are out there for selfish reasons. I am not ashamed to say I am out there for a selfish reason. I am not out there because great grandma Betty's cousins friend lives in XYZ, KS and storms may hit there so I have to sit outside the town and report every tCu that forms. In the same breath I am not out there to make money... and a lot of newer chasers (aside from tour groups) are trying to capitalize on it. God bless em for trying... Not my thing. I do think that fuels a certain competition that encourages an "at all costs" mentality. Streaming has just fueled that competition from ad revenue to network exposure......

My key points are 1) pick a lesser target if you want to avoid the hordes, 2) If legislation ever gets put into effect about chasing... I will eat my paycheck, 3) there is no such thing as "real" chaser... anyone can and will chase, all that matters is how you conduct yourself out there, 4) worry about you on the road, don't try to police others... see someone being a jackass? take down plates, snap a photo, take a video and out them to the chase community and more importantly the LEO world.

Bold opinionated statement: If people hid themselves from spotter network, stopped selling video to the news, gave up this competition among chasers to get the closest shot, made their streams viewable only to the NWS, and gave up this false illusion that chasing will bring you fame and fortune.... then and only then will be start restoring what chasing should be about to many of us. I know many will argue that streaming and selling video helps offset prices during the chasing season. This is true, but it is also what is contributing to the downfall of the hobby. If people truly cared about the hobby, they wouldn't whore themselves every 5 minutes on Facebook, Twitter, etc. I am certainly guilty of doing this, but in this day and age you either keep up with the trend or get run over and forgotten about. The more exposure you provide, the more people you are going to attract, and the more people out there that are going to want to do it. Instead of forming a coalition of chasers, I propose those who truly want to make a difference should try what I outlined above. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Stop trying to capitalize on chasing or stop moaning about how many want to do what you do because they see what you do everywhere.

Re-posting weather information for loved ones and those you are concerned about is awesome. I am not saying it is wrong to pimp yourself out and get as many followers..... but people are baffled why there is such an influx in new chasers and locals.... well because they relate to you and want to do what you do! Correlate storm chasing to baseball. What we do is the major leagues. We are "athletes" to those who love chasing and weather.... Many want to get to the "major leagues." Would any kid want to be a professional athlete if games weren't broadcast all over the world? Food for thought.

My 2c.

 

[Joey Ketcham]

So many arguments and ideas over a hobby that features grown men and women chasing spinning dark clouds.... I've been around the game for a while and have learned certain things. 1) High risks in the plains bring out people from all backgrounds.... One of the worst convergences I have seen or heard about was 5/19/10. A localized high risk directly over the OKC metro. I chased this day and chose a different target out of the high risk. People have eluded to this already. You don't HAVE to chase the target you know will already have 350,000 chasers on it. Look at those the other day that chose NW OK as opposed to KS/NE state line. Like it or not chasing has changed from the once unknown hobby. 2) There will never be legislation on chasing. Not possible. The line of excuses are endless. If asked why I have a laptop.... I say I am using GPS to get to an unknown location. If they ask why I have radar up, I reply because I am a concerned driver and noticed dark clouds on the horizon. Cameras? Just in case I get in a fender bender I always like to document the damage. Dash cam? I like to chronicle my road trips. See... I have an excuse for any argument a potential LEO may have. Won't happen. 3) "Real" vs "Poser" chasers..... Back a few years back I was really hard on newer chasers..... The ones that waltzed into the game and felt like they were entitled to something. I was hit hard by others with the line "who am I to say or voice my concern about who chases and why".... Well well well look at the can of worms that has been opened up. While legislation will probably never be passed.... it is worth noting that if certain county EM's decide to flex their muscles... a number of "targets" out there could be shook down for "speeding" and "stopping on the side of the road with a vest" etc. I know one such EM from the Altus, OK area that made a long diatribe on another forum about how he told his officers to come down hard on anyone suspected chasing. Whether he was just blowing smoke or for real... the notion and the dislike for some of us by some of them are prevalent. 4) I noticed some of the people complaining about the acts of others are notorious for being the first one to say.... "who cares, chase for yourself." Can't have it both ways. On the chase, I only care about myself.... theoretically speaking. I worry about my driving, my navigation, my judgement, my ethics, etc. I am in constant chat with the NWS (via NWSchat) I don't like Spotter Network, I never liked the idea. I try to make myself as un-noticeable as I can. I am not an official entity... I don't have bright flashing lights, a 1,000 antennas, logos plastered all over the place. I chase for me because I love severe weather, I love to document and experience it. It is not my primary goal thinking "I wonder how many lives I am going to save today" .... That logic is saved for my job as a firefighter in Chicago.

Personally I think a lot of people (a lot of newer chasers especially) take chasing far to seriously. Sure it is my life and passion.... but I just don't see the point in acting like you are doing some great public service when in reality most of those that actually CHASE storms are out there for selfish reasons. I am not ashamed to say I am out there for a selfish reason. I am not out there because great grandma Betty's cousins friend lives in XYZ, KS and storms may hit there so I have to sit outside the town and report every tCu that forms. In the same breath I am not out there to make money... and a lot of newer chasers (aside from tour groups) are trying to capitalize on it. God bless em for trying... Not my thing. I do think that fuels a certain competition that encourages an "at all costs" mentality. Streaming has just fueled that competition from ad revenue to network exposure......

My key points are 1) pick a lesser target if you want to avoid the hordes, 2) If legislation ever gets put into effect about chasing... I will eat my paycheck, 3) there is no such thing as "real" chaser... anyone can and will chase, all that matters is how you conduct yourself out there, 4) worry about you on the road, don't try to police others... see someone being a jackass? take down plates, snap a photo, take a video and out them to the chase community and more importantly the LEO world.

Bold opinionated statement: If people hid themselves from spotter network, stopped selling video to the news, gave up this competition among chasers to get the closest shot, made their streams viewable only to the NWS, and gave up this false illusion that chasing will bring you fame and fortune.... then and only then will be start restoring what chasing should be about to many of us. I know many will argue that streaming and selling video helps offset prices during the chasing season. This is true, but it is also what is contributing to the downfall of the hobby. If people truly cared about the hobby, they wouldn't whore themselves every 5 minutes on Facebook, Twitter, etc. I am certainly guilty of doing this, but in this day and age you either keep up with the trend or get run over and forgotten about. The more exposure you provide, the more people you are going to attract, and the more people out there that are going to want to do it. Instead of forming a coalition of chasers, I propose those who truly want to make a difference should try what I outlined above. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Stop trying to capitalize on chasing or stop moaning about how many want to do what you do because they see what you do everywhere.

Re-posting weather information for loved ones and those you are concerned about is awesome. I am not saying it is wrong to pimp yourself out and get as many followers..... but people are baffled why there is such an influx in new chasers and locals.... well because they relate to you and want to do what you do! Correlate storm chasing to baseball. What we do is the major leagues. We are "athletes" to those who love chasing and weather.... Many want to get to the "major leagues." Would any kid want to be a professional athlete if games weren't broadcast all over the world? Food for thought.

My 2c.

Wow, all I can say is... well said.

 

[Shane Adams]

What Danny Neal said. Scott Bennett touched on this same thing last night on the show. As chasers, we create our own problems by trying to glamorize and promote what we do to sell ourselves. What happens is instead of creating fans, we create more wannabe chasers. You can't control what interest will do to people. Nobody wants to follow chasers around like they were rock stars...they wanna be those chasers.

That's why we don't sell breaking video, stream 24/7, or use a "brand" to promote our work. We're Bridget and Shane, our website is Passion Twist (and has been since 1999, way before branding came along in chasing), and the DVDs I offer on that website are my own personal stuff, and rarely sell at all. Our vehicle is plain jane and "unmarked". We blend in well out there. So we're doing our part.

As for the complaints about chasers blocking emergency vehicles, I don't know, I wasn't there. All I can say is, everywhere we were all day Saturday (and all weekend for that matter), everyone played nice, worked well together, and we had no issues (save for one isolated incident Friday). Storms bring out people, and that creates traffic, just like in a big city. They don't make people stop driving to work just because there's a few hundred fender benders every commute day. So why would they do anything to chasers for essentially the same thing - traffic issues. This isn't about storm chasing, it's about driving. The agenda/motive that put those drivers out there in the first place doesn't matter.

 

[Brian Douglas]

I was near Salina and saw the KS State Police block the road on I35 so the chasers could not continue chasing the storm. I was lucky and was able to go into town and go around the mess of chasers stopped on the road. I really saw some crazy stuff some of the chasers did. I saw one stop suddenly on a 2 lane paved road and do a U-turn in the middle of no where. The traffic was going 70+. Just watching SN on GR3 you can see the trains of chasers and most chasers probably don't use SN. Without reading the articles since I am at work and just basing this on how the police were reacting to the confusion of the storms and the chasers, I can see them cracking down soon. I don't know what they will do though. Maybe they will close roads during warnings when tornadoes are spotted.

This guy gets it. Who says the legislation has to single out storm chasers to impact them? Sure the authorities could close roads during warnings. There are plenty of laws already on the book that could play hell with chasing if they were vigorously enforced. Nobody is going to pass a law that singles out storm chasers, but plenty of laws can be passed, and those on the books already can be enforced, that will make chasing much harder, and more expensive, and it will be irresponsible chasers that are the straw that breaks the camels back.

The bottom line is police yourself, be courteous to locals whether they have a badge on or not, obey the law and stay out of the way of emergency vehicles, if you do that, you will always be welcome anywhere you go. It has been easy for me to pick out the people on this thread who are responsible, and who aren't. The idea "this is America by Gawd, and if I want to drive fast and block the road it ain't none of your damned bidness" only goes so far.

The general public as a whole knows (by the way) the whole line about how much chasers are out to "help" local emergency personnel is a bogus argument. Some chasers need a reality check as to how much political clout they actually have. Finally, just because you have a radar and an out of state tag doesn't make you more important than the local folks who maybe have never chased. They have just as much right to look at the storm as anyone else.

 

[Mike Peregrine]

The Star for some reason has latched on to this story ... there is yet another one on the front page of the site this morning:

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/04/18/3563307/no-place-for-gawkers.html

 

[Rob H]

That's why we don't sell breaking video, stream 24/7, or use a "brand" to promote our work. We're Bridget and Shane, our website is Passion Twist (and has been since 1999, way before branding came along in chasing), and the DVDs I offer on that website are my own personal stuff, and rarely sell at all. Our vehicle is plain jane and "unmarked". We blend in well out there. So we're doing our part.

Shane you're spot-on with almost everything you said, but this part just isn't factual. 'Passion Twist' is a brand, and 'Shane Adams' is a brand, whether you choose to acknowledge it and manage it as such or not. Selling DVDs, having a website, having a webcast, posting updates on a blog or Facebook, etc. are just promoting that brand.

It's not fair to just throw "Storm Chasers" under the wheels, or complain about the media, like some people have done. We're feeding the beast, and increasingly becoming the beast. I'm just as guilty as anyone else, and I admit that.

We can start taking all the gaudy attention-seeking crap off our cars, stop pimping ourselves and our adventures, and start criticizing those who are being reckless - or we can just let things continue as they are. We have no right to complain about any consequences at that point, however.

 

[Will Campbell]

This guy gets it... and it will be irresponsible chasers that are the straw that breaks the camels back.

be courteous to locals whether they have a badge on or not, obey the law and stay out of the way of emergency vehicles, if you do that, you will always be welcome anywhere you go... Finally, just because you have a radar and an out of state tag doesn't make you more important than the local folks who maybe have never chased. They have just as much right to look at the storm as anyone else.

I had a huge response typed out to this post but couldn't bring myself to throw gas on the fire. I will respectfully yeild with a simple "lol"...

 

[Mike Johnston]

It would be a mistake to assume laws can't be enacted to regulate/prohibit storm chasing activities. History is replete with state laws that seem crazy in retrospect, but that doesn't stop legislatures from trying. All it takes is a little spark of public interest, a chance for a well-placed politician to grab some limelight and practically any law can be passed. As for those who say that any such law would be "unenforcable", think again. Some say: "well an LEO could never actually prove that I was chasing." That doesn't really matter. LEO's do not have to prove anything on the spot; they can just issue a citatation. And, if you want to fight it, well, the onus would be on you. Are you really prepared to go to court in some distant county, or even in another state, to challenge a ticket? Hire a lawyer, perhaps? A state can regulate whatever activity on the roads it deems necessary.

 

[rdale]

Mike - while you are correct the LE can do whatever he wants, you are missing the big picture. Let's say 150 storm chasers on each big storm, and maybe 5 deputies if it's a slow day. If they are doing nothing else, and the storm causes no damage, then they can write tickets for 5 chasers, leaving the other 145 untouched. So still hordes, and the legislation didn't work.

 

[Jesse Risley]

It would be a mistake to assume laws can't be enacted to regulate/prohibit storm chasing activities. History is replete with state laws that seem crazy in retrospect, but that doesn't stop legislatures from trying. All it takes is a little spark of public interest, a chance for a well-placed politician to grab some limelight and practically any law can be passed. As for those who say that any such law would be "unenforcable", think again. Some say: "well an LEO could never actually prove that I was chasing." That doesn't really matter. LEO's do not have to prove anything on the spot; they can just issue a citatation. And, if you want to fight it, well, the onus would be on you. Are you really prepared to go to court in some distant county, or even in another state, to challenge a ticket? Hire a lawyer, perhaps? A state can regulate whatever activity on the roads it deems necessary.

I've always been one who subscribed to the notion that a law regulating chasing itself, if passed, would be unenforceable and ultimately found to be unconstitutional - if and when it was ever actually challenged in the judiciary.

What I do think is likely to become more of a reality, if it is not already occurring, is targeted, LEGAL harassment of chasers by LEOs. What I am referring to is chasers being stopped for any 'legitimate' traffic infraction, especially minor things that are almost never ordinarily enforced, such as citations for stopping an inch or two over stop lines, speeding a few miles over the posted limit (i.e., 1-5 mph over), illegal parking, changing lanes and having one tire cross a no passing zone line, having a working laptop in view of the driver, camera/GPS mounts in windows (this is being enforced in KS), etc. Also, in states where LEOs have selective powers to close or block highways, this is already being done, and it can be done just to spite us if they so choose. These are the types of targeted enforcement activities that are most bothersome to me, not the unlikely prospect of a law that actually regulates the practice of chasing itself.

The only way chasers have a one up is that the ratio of chasers to working LEOs is quite large, especially on these major days.

 

[Danny Neal]

Absolutely I would. Again, I will eat one of my paychecks if anywhere in U.S passes a law or ordinance banning me for chasing a storm. The steps taken to try such a thing would be more than any lawmaker bargained for.