County Officials Critical of Storm Chasers

[rdale]

The idea somehow that you couldn't ever be subject to regulation is a dream of sorts.

Not really... A dream is just a wish. Reality is real. Reality is that such a regulation would be unenforceable. Absolutely unenforceable. And anyone who knows history (or watched the Ken Burns' special) knows what happens when you pass laws that cannot be enforced

don't live under the illusion that situations like Saturday couldn't lead to some sort of legislation.

It's not an illusion. As we've all noted, there is nothing that anyone can do to legislate people to stay off the roads.

 

[Brian Douglas]

Not really... A dream is just a wish. Reality is real. Reality is that such a regulation would be unenforceable. Absolutely unenforceable. And anyone who knows history (or watched the Ken Burns' special) knows what happens when you pass laws that cannot be enforced



It's not an illusion. As we've all noted, there is nothing that anyone can do to legislate people to stay off the roads.

I guess if that is what you want to think, who am I to argue?

 

[Joey Ketcham]

It would be impractical and impossible to regulate storm chasing. How would it be done and how would it be enforced? Would police officers be expected to pull over every vehicle during severe weather to see if that person driving is certified to storm chase? If I am storm chasing, I could easily deny that I am. How would it ever be proven that I was storm chasing?

We already have too much regulation in our country, how about instead of creating new ones we enforce the laws that already exists. If someone is speeding, pull them over and ticket them. If someone is parked on the road, give them a ticket. Laws already exists for reckless driving, so ticket those who violates the law and leave those of us who obeys the law alone.

 

[Jake Orosi]

While many participate in severe weather reporting, the primary goal of most storm chasers is to document severe weather. Public safety is a secondary motive for most if it is a motive at all.

Refreshing to see someone come out and actually say this frankly for once, anyway.

 

[rdale]

I guess if that is what you want to think, who am I to argue?

Don't argue, just show me evidence otherwise! I've been in EM for years and worked with a sheriff's office for several too. There is NO way I could approach them with a straight face and ask them to put up a roaming block around every potentially severe storm and scan for spotter ID cards.

 

[Adam Simone]

It would be impractical and impossible to regulate storm chasing. How would it be done and how would it be enforced? Would police officers be expected to pull over every vehicle during severe weather to see if that person driving is certified to storm chase? If I am storm chasing, I could easily deny that I am. How would it ever be proven that I was storm chasing?

We already have too much regulation in our country, how about instead of creating new ones we enforce the laws that already exists. If someone is speeding, pull them over and ticket them. If someone is parked on the road, give them a ticket. Laws already exists for reckless driving, so ticket those who violates the law and leave those of us who obeys the law alone.

Agreed no way it could ever be enforced. You can block roads where a tornado is supposed to cross but stopping cars you think are chasers is impossible and is stupid and creates just as much of a traffic hazzard. Like you said laws already exist for the things people are complaining about.

 

[mikedeason]

Refreshing to see someone come out and actually say this frankly for once, anyway.

A small minority of us have been saying this for ages. To me it's a sure sign of noob inexperience when someone claims their primary reason for chasing is to save lives. You can pretty much do that in your own community without spending thousands of dollars in equipment and gas and driving thousands of miles a year. It still perplexes me as to why so many people feel they have to rationalize or justify wanting to see severe storms and tornadoes by using that line.

You want to see a tornado? Get in the car and go. You're a chaser. Just be respectful and obey the law. Really simple when you think about it.

 

[David Drummond]

A small minority of us have been saying this for ages. To me it's a sure sign of noob inexperience when someone claims their primary reason for chasing is to save lives. You can pretty much do that in your own community without spending thousands of dollars in equipment and gas and driving thousands of miles a year. It still perplexes me as to why so many people feel they have to rationalize or justify wanting to see severe storms and tornadoes by using that line.

You want to see a tornado? Get in the car and go. You're a chaser. Just be respectful and obey the law. Really simple when you think about it.

I'll agree with you about the whole "saving lives" thing that many are promoting as their reason for being out there (when most haven't even bothered to take a CPR class or even care a basic first aid kit or even a fire extingisher) is a load of horse apples, but if that is really all that being a storm chaser means "just getting in the car and looking at clouds", I don't really know if I want to call myself one any more. I'd like to think in the meaning, it would require a bit more dedication than that on some level.

 

[mikedeason]

I'll agree with you about the whole "saving lives" thing that many are promoting as their reason for being out there (when most haven't even bothered to take a CPR class or even care a basic first aid kit or even a fire extingisher) is a load of horse apples, but if that is really all that being a storm chaser means "just getting in the car and looking at clouds", I don't really know if I want to call myself one any more. I'd like to think in the meaning, it would require a bit more dedication than that on some level.

You're misquoting me slightly there, David. In the end it's just a label anyway. But if you feel it holds some higher importance then go with it.

 

[David Drummond]

You're misquoting me slightly there, David. In the end it's just a label anyway. But if you feel it holds some higher importance then go with it.

If I didn't feel like it was of higher importance (at least to me), I wouldn't still be doing it 28 years later, I'd have moved on to other things, like many of those people out there on the road did when Monday rolled around. I'm sorry, I just feel there is a difference in someone that has dedicated a large portion of their lives to any activity, from someone who only came out and did it for a day or three. I don't care whether it's golf, car racing, or storm chasing.

sorry if there was a misquote, I just hit the ST quote button.

 

[mikedeason]

If I didn't feel like it was of higher importance (at least to me), I wouldn't still be doing it 28 years later, I'd have moved on to other things, like many of those people out there on the road did when Monday rolled around. I'm sorry, I just feel there is a difference in someone that has dedicated a large portion of their lives to any activity, from someone who only came out and did it for a day or three. I don't care whether it's golf, car racing, or storm chasing.

sorry if there was a misquote, I just hit the ST quote button.

No problem. You know I respect you and have considered you a friend for some years now, especially after letting me consume a large quantity of your beer at the convention in 2005.

My point is not to diminish the reputation that many veteran chasers have forged over the years by cheapening the label. But what more can a person say about being a chaser than going out and witnessing severe weather? Is a chaser defined by the number of years they have chased, the number of tornadoes they have seen, the miles they have driven, the amount of equipment they have? Is a person who occasionally paints a portrait or or writes a song every year or so any less an artist than someone who makes a living at those things. "Storm Chaser" is a term that covers a broad spectrum of people from the ones who have the capabilities and resources to do it for 3 or 6 months straight down the ones who have to save and squeeze every penny, hoping to get one or two good opportunities a year. Is one any more legitimate than the other?

The point that I'm trying to drive home is that if everyone, regardless of what label you want to place on them, would just just follow simple rules of etiquette and law, this would not be an issue.

Now I know that not every one is going to behave that way. But it is extremely disingenuous for people here or in any other forum to blame the problems strictly on the locals each time this issue comes up. We know this is a problem that has occurred for years now by people who fall within the chaser spectrum. I've encountered it numerous times and I suspect you have. And as more people have come into the hobby with technology that makes it easier to rely on it than sound, basic, fundamental meteorological thinking and reasoning, the number of chasers and related problems will also continue to increase.

Yes, the genie is out of the bottle and he's not going back in. Those days are long gone so now everyone has to look forward and consider ways to curb the issues. Regulation, either through the "community" or legal means, is not an answer to be sure. But before the problems with the local gawkers (or whatever you want to call them) can be addressed, we have to take a deep look into our ranks, make honest assessments and resolve those issues first. And if it means calling people to the carpet through peer pressure, so be it. We have to establish some sort of accountability within our own ranks before worrying so much about Joe Blow from Hooterville.

The issues are there and continued denial is not going to make them go away.

I've said about all I can say, I'll go back into lurk mode again on this issue.

 

[David Drummond]

Same here Mike. Once upon a time we did that, then various venues that chasers congregated stopped people from putting on peer pressure because of the huge flame wars that erupted, and IMO that's when stuff really started getting out of control in the ranks. You couldn't say anything negative about anyone, regardless of how true it was or how right you were, so pretty much everything was accepted. The final straw for me, on this forum, was when a "chaser" was allowed to come in, steal images from several of us and post them HERE as their own, and ST refused to ban them. I mean if you can't stand up about such overt bad behavior, pretty much all bad behavior becomes acceptable. Many similar example throughout the chase community through many venues, and IMO this is why peer pressure no longer works (if it's even allowed in the first place). I honestly don't think there is a viable solution for eradicating the bad behavior in the bunch.

 

[Mike Hardiman]

Wow, I tuned out of a day, and this thread took on a life of its own in a hurry. I will say, to clarify, that I did not see any examples of "bad behaviour" ... just clogged up 2-lane roads. Clogged up not because of people stopping halfway in the road, but simply due to volume. Also, with the lack of shoulder, it would have been impossible for anyone to find a small spot to pull over while still maintaining the full speed limit. Is any *one* person to blame for this? No. But I could certainly see where this would become problematic in time.

The whole "local yokel" vs "serious chaser" argument is bogus. Remember, you're in the "yokel's" home turf. These are their counties, communities, etc. It doesn't give them any more...or any less... right to be out there. Maybe they have no idea what they are doing, but whatever. They may know the roads and hills and farms better than anyone else.

Besides, any one of us could be an "amateur." Even me. I hadn't been to the Plains in years. Just didn't have the right combination of time and desire. This outbreak fell in the middle of a 4-day break from work. If it hadn't been a high or moderate risk, I probably wouldn't have bothered, since it was just a one-day affair. I have no decals or lightbars or antennae on my car. I bring my dogs with me. If I had a pickup truck with OK/KS/TX plates, I'd almost certainly be branded a yokel!

Will the issue of volume solve itself in time? Maybe. Some people, like myself, will be turned away by the crowds if they become too problematic. Speaking for myself -- I probably won't travel so far again for an event with such fast storm motions -- it is just too frustrating. I probably won't travel so far again (12 hours one-way) for a one-day event. So there's one less car on the roads! If I can get two days' out of such a trip -- then maybe.

 

[Jake Orosi]

I'm sorry, I just feel there is a difference in someone that has dedicated a large portion of their lives to any activity, from someone who only came out and did it for a day or three. I don't care whether it's golf, car racing, or storm chasing.

True; but at the same time, before you dedicated "a large portion of your life" to storm chasing there was a day when you'd never done it before and were just trying it out for the first time.

How many of those Kansas license plates with no laptop computers or radio antennas or mounted streaming dashcams were really first-timers instead of one-timers? How many of them were genuinely interested in weather but did not have the financial wherewithal to go drive far from home to chase storms, and were suddenly presented with this close-to-home opportunity?

 

[Rob H]

The whole "local yokel" vs "serious chaser" argument is bogus. Remember, you're in the "yokel's" home turf. These are their counties, communities, etc. It doesn't give them any more...or any less... right to be out there.

I wish people would stop parroting this, because it's getting off track. No one is seriously arguing that "real" chasers have more right to be on the road because they're doing a public service. For this specific event, Dickinson County was pissed at the convergence, and blamed out of state chasers, while ignoring the possibility that a large portion of the convergence was likely caused my people in the surrounding county or two. Instead of opting to investigate solutions, they complain to the media and threaten legislation that probably wouldn't work for a multitude of reasons. The "community" can't do anything about a demographic that is external to it.

The community can do something about its own members, but unfortunately David is right. Look at how Chris Novy has been ridiculed and slammed for "playing chaser police". You can't even call out someone for passing on the shoulder on a highway without ruffling feathers. People are so sensitive and everything is about their freedom to do what they want and "you can't tell me how to chase". I admittedly don't like self identifying with the label "chaser" because of this now. In the past few years, it's come to represent drama, recklessness, and a willingness to do whatever it takes to get the shot and promote yourself as a brand. Go ahead and tell a stranger that you're a chaser, and look at their face. Right or wrong, they aren't thinking "cool, this person likes weather", they're thinking "this person is a thrill-seeking lawbreaker".

I love this post on the subject, and some of the responses it generated:

http://tornatrix.net/?p=447

I don't have a good answer for any of this. I'm just going to keep being as respectful and useful to LEOs/EMS as I can and hope that they see there are some people out there that aren't whackjobs. On a final note, if you don't want convergence, the bear's cage is a good place to hang out