County Officials Critical of Storm Chasers

[Andrew Burnett]

Looks like the Kansas Highway Patrol has already started: http://www.kake.com/news/headlines/Are_Storm_Chasers_Being_Targeted_By_KHP_149602425.html?ref=425

wow.. the dude in that article has a very high opinion of himself. Unbelievable. Contrary to what most folks seem to think in this thread, even podunk little towns like mine have paid and volunteers who spot storms, no chaser is ever "needed". The communication and warning systems may need work, but very rarely is a tornado unseen prior to impact.

 

[Andrew Burnett]

Can't quite tell if this is a serious comment, but to take the stance that a sparse at best network of spotters is sufficient to support the NWS in reporting/confirming tornadoes is borderline ignorant. I have the utmost respect for EM's and spotters that do what spotters should and post up and watch the skies, but to think that if all "chasers" were to go away that there would be no change in the reports, confirmations, or casulties from tornadoes....that is truly holding a high opinion.

This article documents the growing trend in reports of tornadoes in the last 30 years. Much of which can be attributed to technology and the increase in the "hobby" of storm chasing.

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/publications/mccarthy/tor30yrs.pdf

So I guess you're right in an aspect, chasers aren't "needed"... are spotters? Mr and Mrs Smith who live in that farmstead 35miles from the nearest form of "civilization" and Skywarn, EM, or other spotter org. would certainly appreciate the chaser calling in the tornado that is weak enough to not be "classic" on reflectivity or velocity, yet strong enough to change their life in 30 seconds.

Oh, I am very serious. Bottom Line, regardless of what chasers opinions of themselves are, they simply are not needed by communities. Chasing is for fun and the thrill and for some profit, that's why folks do it. Some folks do put serious scientific study into it but those folks only number in the dozens and should be permitted extra leeway. How many chasers have submitted a paper to a scientific journal and had it peer reviewed and duplicated? I mean come on folks.

That's not a bad thing, there are lots of hobbies out there that seem strange from an outside perspective. Heck chasing is a hobby of mine, so the comments are directed at me also.

I also laugh at the NWS comment.. I would be interested in a supporting NWS document where they actually request this support and encourage chasing? You act like you are some caretaker for the ignorant farm hicks of Kansas. Give me a break.

Come on folks, it's time for a little introspection here on our hobby.

 

[Will Campbell]

Oh, I am very serious. Bottom Line, regardless of what chasers opinions of themselves are, they simply are not needed by communities. Chasing is for fun and the thrill and for some profit, that's why folks do it. Some folks do put serious scientific study into it but those folks only number in the dozens and should be permitted extra leeway. How many chasers have submitted a paper to a scientific journal and had it peer reviewed and duplicated? I mean come on folks.

That's not a bad thing, there are lots of hobbies out there that seem strange from an outside perspective. Heck chasing is a hobby of mine, so the comments are directed at me also.

I also laugh at the NWS comment.. I would be interested in a supporting NWS document where they actually request this support and encourage chasing? You act like you are some caretaker for the ignorant farm hicks of Kansas. Give me a break.

Come on folks, it's time for a little introspection here on our hobby.

You sir certainly have the right to your opinion and viewpoint, much like I have the right to drive on roads and take pictures of nature while obeying applicable laws.

 

[Will Campbell]

I also laugh at the NWS comment.. I would be interested in a supporting NWS document where they actually request this support and encourage chasing? You act like you are some caretaker for the ignorant farm hicks of Kansas. Give me a break.

I laugh at the notion of any government agency encouraging anyone to do anything inherently dangerous.

And the farm hick comment...really? Get off your freaking high horse. A simple example of how spotters are not an all-inclusive solution to the problem you highlighted in your original report of tornadoes being unseen prior to impact. Did I say I, or even chasers as a whole are "needed"? No. Did I say I was acting as a frickin caretaker for rural citizens? No. Do I care if some EM or LEO in someplace that I visit or drive through during a severe weather event wants me there? Heck no. If I happen to witness a severe weather event and call said event in to the NWS, do I think that warning coordination meteorologist appreciates the information? I'd like to think so, maybe try asking one yourself? Is calling in storms the reason I leave my house at 4 in the morning and drive 1,000+ miles in a day, absolutely not.

 

[Andrew Burnett]

I laugh at the notion of any government agency encouraging anyone to do anything inherently dangerous.

And the farm hick comment...really? Get off your freaking high horse. A simple example of how spotters are not an all-inclusive solution to the problem you highlighted in your original report of tornadoes being unseen prior to impact. Did I say I, or even chasers as a whole are "needed"? No. Did I say I was acting as a frickin caretaker for rural citizens? No. Do I care if some EM or LEO in someplace that I visit or drive through during a severe weather event wants me there? Heck no. If I happen to witness a severe weather event and call said event in to the NWS, do I think that warning coordination meteorologist appreciates the information? I'd like to think so, maybe try asking one yourself? Is calling in storms the reason I leave my house at 4 in the morning and drive 1,000+ miles in a day, absolutely not.

That's really my point.. not meaning to attack you personally.. didn't mean for it to come across that way. The point is very few do this out of some noble cause. I have grown tired of hearing that as justification. The main reason people do it is to see amazing weather events or to profit off showing other people those events. Like I said, nothing inheirently wrong with that, but to act like(not you perse) if chasing was banned ignorant rural folks would die is absurd.

 

[Jake Orosi]

Like I said, nothing inheirently wrong with that, but to act like(not you perse) if chasing was banned ignorant rural folks would die is absurd.

Right. It doesn't seem likely to me that these Plains people and towns who live in these places their whole lives and deal with these significant tornado threats every single year are helpless and unprepared, hosting only small and inadequate "spotter" networks that would suffer or fail if it weren't for all the out-of-staters swooping in to protect and reinforce them with their mobile Severe Weather Interdiction vehicles and excusable-due-to-adrenaline stopsign-running.

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

Ugh, try two. Replying from Tapatalk is a pain.

In my experience, experienced storm chasers have a great deal more experience than most storm spotters I've met. I know that this is a generalization and does't apply to all spotters -- for example, Chris Novy recently hung up his chasing hat and became a spotter, and I doubt that anyone would question his ability to make an accurate report. But most spotter nets on the plains see maybe one or two supercells a year, and that's if they are lucky. Because they are deployed at set locations and don't move, most of the people in that network are going to be out of position to see the interesting features of a mesocyclone and will instead be sampling precip shafts. So you end up with just a few people in the net on any given year getting a chance to see real-world non-slideshow examples of tornado-related storm structure.

Chasers, on the other hand, have to teach themselves to figure out how to get to a supercell in the first place, then how to position in front of the interesting part of the storm -- and then, usually several times a year they get to observe a storm actually make a tornado. I tend to think that a chaser with 200 tornadoes under his or her belt is infinitely more qualified to find and report a tornado (or dismiss a non tornado) than a local VFD who has sat through a 20 minute Powerpoint presentation on what wall clouds look like. (Having sat through, for example, the local yearly Skywarn training that the spotter network does in one of the larger cities in Nebraska, I was a bit astounded by how little information was conveyed; I would be downright worried to send anyone in the direction of a supercell with so little training ).

I think all the talk of motivation is a red herring. It doesn't matter WHY a chaser chases, but from a public safety standpoint, it does matter WHAT they do. It's been shown that *sometimes* they create a traffic situation, but it's also been shown that nearly *all the time* they significantly add to the weather service's ability to verify and warn for tornadoes with ground-truth information. When I hear LEO in Kansas complaining about the existence of chasers, I want to slap my forehead; Kansas is a state that has nowhere near enough budget to duplicate the severe weather reporting abilities that the roaming packs of chasers provide for free. (When I hear about LEOs pulling over chasers for running wigwags and speeding and parking in the middle of the road, I want to do a happy dance; these people NEED tickets -- not because they are chasers, but because they are causing a hazard for everyone around them.)

 

[rdale]

Very few spotter networks tell their spotters to stay stationary. That makes no sense.