Chaser Safety and Responsibility suggestions

[Mike Johnston]

Yep, it is much more likely...and who amongst us wants to be in the middle of a lottery?

My only point, Mike, is that if we as a community wish to avoid making our activities a matter of public policy, then is better to organize around a standard than leave it to circumstance. Your works, for one, are those I really hope don't get circumvented by some arbitrary law. We're not a very large community; I'm only suggesting it may be wise to self-regulate in advance than leave it to chance.

I am a relatively old man by age, interested in a relatively young hobby. I just hope it doesn't get blown out of the water soon. The forefathers, like Dr. Doswell, I think intuitively understood the practical risks and limitations, and I hope the sons of the plains will heed their words. That's all.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

I'm only suggesting it may be wise to self-regulate in advance than leave it to chance.

It only bugs me that people worry too much over this. Then the very second I say something like that people start jumping in on how dare you say that and think, oh he must be a yahoo too or must disrespect this or that person. Or the ol, well it is better to do something than nothing. It sure is, but in this case, it is largely pointless. In the end you can't do one bit of self-regulating on this that will do anything. It will all be preaching to the choir.

The other thing is it is NEVER as big of an issue as some think it to be. That is probably the biggest thing that gets newer chasers to really worrying. I can't think of much of anything I've seen that was that crazy. Instances happen but they aren't wide enough in my mind to bother getting very stirred up over. And in the worst case scenario, saying this was a rampant severe problem(which it is not) and it got legislated...I'm sorry but there is zero way to keep me from driving and watching storms. If cops ever had that much time to worry about that, well I'd be highly concerned about my tax dollars. There are lots of ways to do this hobby and not be at all noticed. I figure that is probably a more worthwhile topic....being seen less. I guess I feel sorry for those that really sit and stir over this worry, namely newer chasers that get to hear it.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I agree with others in that legislation against the act of chasing is unlikely, and if enacted, will be unenforceable.

BUT, what I can see happening is:

- Increased intolerance of chaser traffic infractions by police. No more brief verbal warnings for speeding, u-turns, run stop signs, etc.

- *No one* will be allowed around roadblocks. Additional roadblocks may even be set up by specially-assigned units to keep ALL traffic away from storms.

- Crowd control. Increased police presence around storms with additional units assigned to specifically handle the traffic problems and hazards as well as enforce existing traffic laws. I can see two or more state police cruisers put on duty specifically to be on the scene around a storm just to keep an eye on chasers and locals. These would be in addition to units already on the scene to assist in spotting and first responder duties.

- Taxpayers will have to pay for those last two items, leading to:

- Secondary consequences resulting from degraded public image. No more friendly librarians or hotel managers giving chasers internet access. Libraries may start requiring a valid membership card for access.

Again, all of this may not be entirely practical but it will not stop them from trying. Worst case is that the next Mulvane might see patrol cars sealing off all the highways east of I-35 long before the storm crosses the turnpike. All it would require is coordination with SPC/NWS, and they could deploy the units to severe weather areas in advance. Taxpayers pay for the extra personnel and vehicles.

 

[Sheila_Ward]

- Increased intolerance of chaser traffic infractions by police. No more brief verbal warnings for speeding, u-turns, run stop signs, etc.

- *No one* will be allowed around roadblocks. Additional roadblocks may even be set up by specially-assigned units to keep ALL traffic away from storms.

Well this prompts me to ask, should someone be allowed to speed, make u-turns and run stop signs just because they are a chaser?

And usually when I've seen road blocks, it's been after the storm to keep people out of damaged areas. In that case, should someone be let in because they are a chaser?

IMO, chasers should have to follow the same laws that everyone else does.

 

[Dan Robinson]

- Increased intolerance of chaser traffic infractions by police. No more brief verbal warnings for speeding, u-turns, run stop signs, etc.

- *No one* will be allowed around roadblocks. Additional roadblocks may even be set up by specially-assigned units to keep ALL traffic away from storms.

Well this prompts me to ask, should someone be allowed to speed, make u-turns and run stop signs just because they are a chaser?

And usually when I've seen road blocks, it's been after the storm to keep people out of damaged areas. In that case, should someone be let in because they are a chaser?

IMO, chasers should have to follow the same laws that everyone else does.

I agree, I hope I didn't sound like I was condoning those things or suggesting that they are trivial for chasers. What I mean is that police have the legal right to pull vehicles over for exceeding the speed limit, whether it is 5mph over or 20mph over, or to pull over a vehicle for the most minor traffic violations. Most of the time they don't even if they have the full right to. I'm talking more about the minor, unintentional oversights that police ignore for 'normal' drivers may be grounds for stopping a chaser. Like forgetting to slow from 35mph to 20mph in the center of those tiny Plains towns. That's an easy mistake to make that many a cop has not pulled me over for when he could have.

Police have been known, at times, to allow chasers and spotters past weather-related roadblocks. I think that could also change.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Not that it matters, but I have not seen a police road block while chasing since my very first chase. If I saw one now and wanted on the other side of, well there is always a way. Most of the time you'd simply just drive back one mile and hop on gravel grid.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

I only hope there are cops out there that realize not every one is the same. It is a pretty simple concept, which I think most realize, even if they've had a bad experience with a chaser. Then again, back to the numbers thing. I think most have the largest problem with seeing the crowd present around storms.

 

[Susan Strom]

I think a good point is that chasing doesn't make liberally interpreting speed and traffic laws okay somehow. You all have mentioned that already but I just wanted to agree.

I also want to add that for myself, when I go out to the Plains, I'm just out there as a photojournalist, which is not a position of any official status or authority. Even if I'm asked or followed, I will not give weather advice to local citizens, but encourage them to tune in to official weather warnings and announcements by law enforcement. Just something I wanted to add.

I think that respect, law abidence and politeness take care of most of these problems.

 

[Bryce Stone]

Even if these yearly discussions lead nowhere, they are important because someday we will have to deal with this issue. I started attending the NWS spotter presentations in 2000, and I noticed that in the last couple of years they have been adding slides on storm chasers. I'm sure those of you who spot in your local communities and attend these presentations have noticed the change. The NWS doesn't paint a very pretty picture of us in spotter talks. In fact, they mention us as a road hazard comparable to flooding, lightning, and tornadoes during the presentations. Cops go to these presentations. Cops hear the NWS say we break traffic laws and block roadways. What effect do you guys think the change has had on police perception of chasers?

No, I don't have the answer to chasing safety. I chase safely, and the only time I've ever witnessed unsafe chasing is when locals "join" in a chase. I'm not sure how to reach those people. But I'm with Amos when he says we can expect someone to try to regulate us someday, even if its only more cops around storms looking for chasers.

Common sense dictates that when a group of people (chasers in this case) endanger the general public, the government will try to do something about it. It doesn't get any more simple than that. When the day comes that a chaser or a local does something stupid and someone gets killed, there is not even a little bit of doubt in my mind that the government will try to crack down on us in some way.

Therefore, I think it is very important that we continue to discuss this subject each year because we may someday find a solution to the problem that I cannot help but believe is inevitable.

 

[Shane Adams]

I started attending the NWS spotter presentations in 2000, and I noticed that in the last couple of years they have been adding slides on storm chasers. I'm sure those of you who spot in your local communities and attend these presentations have noticed the change. The NWS doesn't paint a very pretty picture of us in spotter talks. In fact, they mention us as a road hazard comparable to flooding, lightning, and tornadoes during the presentations. Cops go to these presentations. Cops hear the NWS say we break traffic laws and block roadways.

Wow, now I really want to interupt my chase to pick up the phone :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Jay McCoy]

Unfortunately Bryce is right. I had spotter trains for my AES this past Tuesday and there were photos painting a pretty negative picture of chasers and that the NWS does not employ or sanction chasers in any way. They made us out to be nothing but yahoos who block roads and drive crazy. Ofcourse the WCM knows me and we talked a bit about it but on the whole the NWS loves reports but they can officially condone chasers since we are not "officially" trained etc..

Perception is everything. we know the truth about how we usually act and the part we play in public safety. There are usually more of us than there are spotters on a given storm. But if people think we act like yahoos then it doesnt matter what we say. Law enforcement and politicians will listen to a government agency before they listen to us.

I am not going to let it bug me because I know how I act and there is nothing more I can do to "prove" it so I will chase my storms and enjoy every damn minute of it.

 

[Sheila_Ward]

Not every NWS spotter class portrays storm chasers in a bad way. The ones I've been to make the distinction between chasers and spotters and make a point that the NWS does not employee chasers, but that's it. They use photos and videos from chasers and encourage spotters and chasers to call in information. They certainly didn't waste time talking down any one group. If they had, I would've been the first one to stand up and present a different view of chasers.

Did those of you who attended classes where storm chasers were talked about in a bad way speak up like Jay?

 

[David Drummond]

Not every NWS spotter class portrays storm chasers in a bad way. The ones I've been to make the distinction between chasers and spotters and make a point that the NWS does not employee chasers, but that's it. They use photos and videos from chasers and encourage spotters and chasers to call in information. They certainly didn't waste time talking down any one group. If they had, I would've been the first one to stand up and present a different view of chasers.

Did those of you who attended classes where storm chasers were talked about in a bad way speak up like Jay?

No doubt it's just some doing that. I have been requested by no less than 5 NWSFOs for video for training this year. Last year I spoke at the meeting in Abilene for the SJT office. I know the MAF and LBB office don't feel that way. I would be interested in what OUN says too.

I do know that one of the largest popular metropolitan meetings I have attended on the southern plains geared toward spotters that I won't mention the name of, a couple of years ago had quite a bit of anti-chaser tones laced in to the talks.

 

[Greg Stumpf]

Not that it matters, but I have not seen a police road block while chasing since my very first chase. If I saw one now and wanted on the other side of, well there is always a way. Most of the time you'd simply just drive back one mile and hop on gravel grid.

Way to go Mike - advocating a way to circumvent the law. As if officials are only blocking to the road for one reason, to prevent you from chasing the storms, and not to keep the roads clear for first responders. I certainly hope I have misinterpreted your statements!

Certain yahoos don't even use the gravel road grids to get around the road blocks. Heck, let's just drive our vehicle straight through farmer's fields! Recalling:

http://www.stormeyes.org/tornado/jd5may93.htm

"Several cars passed me at high speed a couple of miles before I got to the "road block." While I have no idea what happened to these drivers, I suspect that the sheriff and his people were quite stressed in dealing with a rapidly evolving and dangerous situation that had the added complication of some people who appeared to be driving recklessly at times. Although the law enforcement personnel were less than communicative with me, I later learned they told NWS personnel that a vehicle they were unable to stop had been clocked at over 100 mph; the same vehicle drove over wheat fields on private property. This kind of chaser behavior is so reckless and absurd, it doesn't deserve comment."

[bold emphasis mine]

 

[David Drummond]

Well in fairness, I have met roadblocks too where it might just be a matter of some sort of obstruction they are blocking the road for, such as a down power line or even some sort of minor debris in the road, like a tree down or something. Often times the next road over is clear. I can usually determine why the road is blocked simply by asking. Of course being with the news they usually let you go down to get pictures anyway, but that is beside the point.

I agree though, no one should be driving through the middle of someone fields or just blowing road blocks.