Chaser Safety and Responsibility suggestions

[Scott Olson]

Just be an example for others in how you chase. Taking others under your wing like Kurt Hulst has done is also a good way to grandfather in responsible chasers. I don't think that getting close to a tornado is necessairly reckless though, it's just all varying degrees of choices. I was a little bit astounded on all the tripods and cars pulled over on the interstate and off-ramp on June 7th. But as others have already pointed out, chasers are rather independent souls. I also agree the majority of the problem seems to be locals rather than experienced chasers, even though it's the chaser image that is reflected by such behavior. It's pretty reasonable to assume that an incident, even if it was a local 'yahoo', would most likely reflect bad on the chase community. But, not to forget that chasers do lots of positive things such as: call in reports, meteorological/damage studies, patronize middle of nowhere joints & raise money for chairty (Storms of DVD's, Hurricane DVD's).


Scott Olson

 

[Patrick Kerrin]

Originally posted by Scott Olson
Just be an example for others in how you chase

This is a good starting point for everyone to try and keep in mind regardless of how close one likes to get, how agressive they are to get renumeration quality video, or whatever other impulse may lead otherwise responible chasers to 'step over the line' (whatever that line is).

Simply try to stress safety a little more. I think this is one area where it is GOOD to be a hypocrite - so everyone has pulled a bonehead move in the field in the past - that dosen't mean that you should abandon keeping safety as a first priority and letting others know that.

Cultures are maliable - if we make safety and courtesy a priority it will be infectious to a degree on new chasers (and counter the 'screamo' extreme video the media loves to show). And no I do not advocate directly trying to change anyone's established chase style - that is not the point of this post.

 

[David Wolfson]

My observation and experience is that the situation calling for the greatest care is after you have ended the chase. It is usually after dark; you're sometimes still in proximity to severe or even tornadic storms; you're tired; and the adrenaline of the chase has worn away.

A chaser was nearly skewered a few years ago -- I think in Hoisington, KS. He had pulled into town for gas after dark when the conditions deteriorated into the signs of a nearby tornado. He pulled up next to a sturdy concrete wall and lay flat in his SUV. The town was badly hit but the wall survived as a partial windbreak. Nonetheless lumber speared through over his head... a very, very close call.

If there's one lesson I've tried to take to heart from this story and a few experiences of my own, it's that your (hopefully!) superior knowledge and experience with severe storms gives you an added responsibility toward yourself and the public. When done chasing or when not chasing, you don't stop watching and acting the same as you would when you're chasing. And you try to return some of that to the public when you can.

 

[John Hudson]

Originally posted by Patrick Kerrin+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Patrick Kerrin)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Scott Olson

Just be an example for others in how you chase

This is a good starting point for everyone to try and keep in mind regardless of how close one likes to get, how agressive they are to get renumeration quality video, or whatever other impulse may lead otherwise responible chasers to 'step over the line' (whatever that line is).

[/b]

I often wonder if the public's taste for storm stills/footage, and therefore the market for it, is beginning to become a bit saturated. While I'm meticulously trying not to tar every "professional" storm photographer with the same brush, money often seems to be the driving force behind the blind recklessness/bravado of a select few.

Not unlike professional sports, the sport of storm chasing we all know and love sometimes becomes tainted when perceived business opportunities, real or imagined, are the only focal point. The "Tornado Attack" venture comes to mind when I think in this context. A well-financed yahoo, yes. But in my mind, a yahoo nonetheless. All for the money, and forget about the science, or the thrill of the hunt.

As terrifying and destructive as these storms may be, I believe the greatest chance for deaths among chasers is on the road, with lightning placing a close second.

It's the irresponsibility of a tiny minority that terrifies me more than the storms.

 

[Patrick Kerrin]

Originally posted by David Wolfson
My observation and experience is that the situation calling for the greatest care is after you have ended the chase. It is usually after dark; you're sometimes still in proximity to severe or even tornadic storms; you're tired; and the adrenaline of the chase has worn away.

Absolutely. I got into damaging hail (which I usually try to avoid) heading back into LBB on 25 May 1996 after a difficult chase in the haboob between Lamasa and Seminole. Went casually into small hail just S of LBB and then the big stones started. Got out before it got too bad but lost the windshield and some good dents to the roof of the rental (saw some softball sized holes in cars in S LBB later on).

All because I had let my guard down after the chase in the dark and was thinking about getting up early for the drive back to DFW in time for my flight home.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Distracted driving and/or speed get my vote for the cause of the first chase tragedy (multiple casualties, big news coverage). The automobile is going to get us long before the storm does.

I hate to admit it but one of the reasons I strongly believe this is that I have had two close calls, almost driving off the interstate or head-on into oncoming traffic due to staring at a ThreatNet radar loop. It doesn't take much for this to happen, just a quick glance that lingers one second too long. Scary enough that I don't do it anymore. So, my tip is to leave all laptop tasks to a passenger or always STOP to look at the screen.

Modern chaser convergence is a ticking time bomb. Many, many risk factors coming together in a concentrated area time and time again: distracted drivers, distracted pedestrians/photographers, significant speed differences (fast and slow moving traffic), u-turns, slippery roads, vehicles packed with equipment, etc.

Unfortunately I believe it is not a matter of if, but when. I just do not want to be one of the ones involved when it happens. It is a somber thought that will change the way I chase.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/viewtopic....?t=6349&start=0

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/viewtopic....?t=2413&start=0

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/viewtopic....?t=5311&start=0

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/viewtopic....?t=2418&start=0

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/viewtopic....?t=2471&start=0

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/viewtopic....?t=7313&start=0

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/viewtopic....?t=6804&start=0

 

[Bill Hark]

Hey Bill I was wondering how you got all the tornados in Virginia...You yahoo you...lol

Well without any question I think everyone who chases has crossed the Yahoo status one or twice

Bill Coyle

I think I was well behaved on that Virginia tornado, but I have done my share of dumb things that would certainly be described as "yahoo." I try my best to adhere to commonly recognized standards of safety for chasing (and driving in general.) That's all any of us can do. When I encounter "bad behavior," I also think to myself, "Do I do that too?"

We are also members of many different groups including "storm chasers." The smaller the group is relative to the general population, the more important it is to act as a representative of that group. Storm chasers are a very small but highly visible group. Therefore it is easy for the general population to associate all storm chasers with the behavior (good or bad) of a few individuals. One may ask,"Why do I have to consider other chasers? I am an individual." In addition to be right or moral, there are very practical reasons to acting appropriately: Over the years, I have had many friendly encounters with locals including law enforcement, farmers, librarians etc. People have been very helpful including warnings about construction, great restaurants, internet access, directions etc. One farmer even gave me shelter when I was trapped between a road that ended (map error) and an approaching tornado-warned storm and massive hail core. These folks already had a good impression of storm chasers. Imagine a future after multiple serious incidents. Government may not regulate chasing but I would hate to be ignored, blown off or even given the wrong info by locals who see chasers as a menace or simply jerks who hope for death and destruction. Finally, I think chasers should be proactive whether it is calling in severe weather, donating images for spotter training, speaking at local schools about severe weather awareness or just taking a few minutes to discuss the weather situation with a scared resident.

Bill Hark

 

[Amos Magliocco]

I applaud Bill for raising the issue. Others have mentioned that we talked about this before without success. The last I remember was when we proposed an "association" that might produce chaser safety materials and email press releases to tell newspapers, TV stations, and other media outlets about the benefits chasers bring to spotting, spotter training, and even severe weather research.

Yet even something as benign as a text-producing PR webpage drew howling protests by those who imagine that what happens to chasers in other places does not affect them. But it will affect all of us when Kansas passes some law restricting recreational vehicle use around severe storms. It might only take one high-profile accident (how about a chaser runs down a kid while racing through a small town?) and one ambitious young legislator who anticipates an easy highlight on his next campaign poster. You think if we kill somebody that these towns won't do anything about it? Do you think they’ll say, “Oh let them be—chasers have very independent spirits?â€￾ Is that what we expect? To me, having a legislature move against us seems almost inevitable. Most of us aren't even FROM the states we chase in. I personally have zero political clout in Harper County, Kansas. Do you?

I would welcome an effort in the direction we discussed before, something to promote IDEAS for how new chasers might stay safe and represent the hobby well. That's what Stormtrack used to do. It had a chasing ETHIC that the editors were not afraid to promote. It stood for something. As a chaser starting out, I was glad to read what others thought about various topics. I think people new to the hobby would still appreciate suggestions like these. They might see the benefit in adopting ideas that other experienced chasers agree are worthwhile.

I hope those who checked out the other threads will indulge what is essentially a repeat of what I've said for several years now, but my ideas haven't changed.

 

[Shane Adams]

I understand the concerns of some of you, but the bottom line is the people who pose a threat to our "image" are idiots. You can lead a horse to water...

There's simply no way to police storm chasing. Chasers can't predict where tornadic storms will be half the time, the authorities will have no clue most of the time. I find it hard to believe a police officer will spend time at a roadblock checking cars while his town is being threatened by a tornado. And if you do get checked, it's not against the law to own a vidcam, or a map, or a laptop. It will take more than circumstancial evidence to win a court case, otherwise attorneys will eat these "cases" alive.

I know this all sounds reactionary on my part, but chasers can't spend their time worrying about things they can't prevent. I think most all true chasers (who chase because they love it) are decent drivers. We can't control what locals do in and around their own communities....or can we?

If you're going to police storm chasing, why not enforce it locally? Keep the locals off the streets and in their homes, and leave the chasers alone. As healthy and legitimate as the "being safe" argument is, I will be as equally passionate about the debate over chasers' worth to the community. We save lives every year, by simply being there. People see chasers rolling through town and they at least know something's up. They might not take any action to protect themselves (the horse to water thing again), but at least they have a choice. You can't tell me a boatload of chasers doesn't alert citizens to the fact a bad storm is nearbye, whether their presence is seen as an annoyance or not.

Police, FDs, 90% of all spotters - they don't know jack. When a town is threatened by severe weather, chasers are the authority. People look to us for answers, and this includes authorities. It's an inescapable fact. The issue is being a good driver. That's all it is folks, DRIVING.

Don't be a moron behind the wheel. We're all gonna speed, cut corners, roll stop signs and red lights - we ALL ARE. But there's a line between "hey we're breaking the law" and "hey, we're endangering ourselves and everyone around us." People with half a brain know the difference and respect that difference. Everyone else are simply morons, and you can't cure stupidity.

 

[John Diel]

I've already started (in a small way) to put my money where my mouth is on this issue. We've started airing weather blips on the local radio in which I give the standard weather safety tips. If I could talk faster, I could put it in 15 seconds, but it's a lot of information to get out in a short time.

I've been putting together a few more that will start airing as the season gets closer. Somewhere in this I'll include something about not getting out on the roads or "chasing" unless your trained to do so. It will also tie in with staying out of areas "rubber necking" when there is a strike.

We ran into this last year where emergency vehicles had a hard time getting into an area that was hit with a small tornado. I was in the area and immediately starting broadcasting information for people to NOT go into the area.

The problem is that this sometimes produces the opposite effect and all of a sudden, we're telling people about the area and the damage and they JUST have to go see for themselves. It's a double edged sword and I hate to add to the problem rather than take it away from it.

 

[Glen Romine]

Certainly agree with Mike H that this issue has been beat to death here many times before - time and again achieving seemingly little. If you are a yahoo - you probably don't notice other yahoos because you aren't paying enough attention to what is going on around you. Those paying attention to things other than just the storm notice the reckless behavior of some. It was probably ok to be a yahoo 15 years ago when there just weren't that many people around. Others could just avoid and make fun of you - and generally did just that. But, it's much easier to get to where the action is in modern times for both verterans and newbies alike with the current availability of technology and information, and that means the storms are many fold more crowded than they were in the 'old days', and that means more yahoos as well as responsible chasers. Act like a yahoo in a crowded place and there are simply more people around to be annoyed by the behavior, and the yahoo convergence starts to become more visually obvious to those that are concerned with their safety first and the storm second. I certainly agree with what someone posted earlier, that the most dangerous part of chasing isn't the storm.

Chasing is dominated by young white males, a demographic hardly known for being cautious and responsible - and also generally defiant of authority. I used to fit in the group - and believe it or not I can still remember what it was like. Folks behaving selfishly aren't going to care what others around them think - particularly not some old guy in a big cowboy hat who's yelling at them for acting like asses. They have two words for them and just continue on their way. So, if you are one of the responsible many, and are annoyed by the yahoos, my advice is to get over it or find a new hobby. Nothing you can say or do will make them go away. If it gets bad enough local police will simply get more agressive with road blocks to keep all chasers out. But I'm probably just some paranoid old guy for thinking that. Continue on.....

Glen

 

[Greg Stumpf]

Folks behaving selfishly aren't going to care what others around them think - particularly not some old guy in a big cowboy hat who's yelling at them for acting like asses. They have two words for them and just continue on their way. So, if you are one of the responsible many, and are annoyed by the yahoos, my advice is to get over it or find a new hobby. Nothing you can say or do will make them go away.

Chuck Doswell is a 30+ year chase veteran who made storm chasing what it is - he is one of the first dozen people who did it, endeavors to chase responsibly and ethically, essentially paved the road for this activity for most of us - and is one of the pre-eminent severe storm researchers in the world. He's not just "some old guy in a cowboy hat". If there are chasers out there (presumably, chasers who have *followed* Chuck into the hobby), and they are appallingly turning their noses up against the likes of Chuck Doswell and other veterans, I have news for them. Us responsible and ethical chasers will not take lightly to this, and we're not going to turn our noses and run.

Chuck says it well, "...if you do something really dumb and that action in some way jeopardizes (our) opportunities to chase storms, then (we) reserve the right to be upset with your behavior and to create as many obstacles to your continued stupid behavior as (we) can think of and get implemented."

 

[Tyler Allison]

Maybe the NSCC should have a video night where people submit "bad behavior" video. And then Chuck can give his talk after.


he did say public humiliation (including himself if someone catches him doing it) is fair game

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

Folks behaving selfishly aren't going to care what others around them think - particularly not some old guy in a big cowboy hat who's yelling at them for acting like asses. They have two words for them and just continue on their way. So, if you are one of the responsible many, and are annoyed by the yahoos, my advice is to get over it or find a new hobby. Nothing you can say or do will make them go away.

Chuck Doswell is a 30+ year chase veteran who made storm chasing what it is - he is one of the first dozen people who did it, endeavors to chase responsibly and ethically, essentially paved the road for this activity for most of us - and is one of the pre-eminent severe storm researchers in the world. He's not just "some old guy in a cowboy hat". If there are chasers out there (presumably, chasers who have *followed* Chuck into the hobby), and they are appallingly turning their noses up against the likes of Chuck Doswell and other veterans, I have news for them. Us responsible and ethical chasers will not take lightly to this, and we're not going to turn our noses and run.

Chuck says it well, "...if you do something really dumb and that action in some way jeopardizes (our) opportunities to chase storms, then (we) reserve the right to be upset with your behavior and to create as many obstacles to your continued stupid behavior as (we) can think of and get implemented."

I don't think he was besmirching the Dos so much as pointing out that anyone who drives their pickup 100mph through stoplights into a hailcore probably doesn't know who Chuck is, let alone care what he thinks.

I see where Chuck's coming from but I don't think I understand what he means by the chasers "creating obstacles". Just what the heck are chasers going to do to "create obstacles?" We're not law enforcement. If we start pretending that we are, given the demographic that primarily chases and fact that we all run into each other on abandoned roads in the middle of nowhere, it will only be a matter of time before someone gets very hurt, I guarantee it. I'm sure there are more than a few people out there who chase armed. Please, lets not make chasing any more scary than it already is.

If you see someone driving like a complete jackass or dancing the watusi in the middle of I-80 or whatever else you feel is naughty in your sight, call the sheriff. Get them on tape and post it here so that we can all laugh at them and ask them to knock it off and ban them from our reindeer games. But, with all respect to the Dos, I don't know that chasers have much biz trying to enforce chasing ethics on one another, unless we want to start having seasonal knife-fights in front of Alsups. Suggest yes, persuade yes, but "obstacles" probably aren't a great idea.