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10/7/07 FCST: NE / KS / OK / TX

Joined
Dec 9, 2003
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Location
Oklahoma
My oh my, what do my eyes see?! A good dryline setup in the southern plains?!

00z GFS output not in yet, but the 00z NAM is agreeing relatively well with the earlier GFS runs in forecasting a strong/deep upper-level low/trough near eastern Colorado Sunday afternoon (the movement of the ULL thereafter is very different between the NAM and GFS, but my focus is on Sunday). We're just about to get into the Day 3 (SWODY3) range, but it's still far enough out such that it wouldn't be too prudent to get into too much detail. The gist is that a surface low show be located near the OK panhandle (NAM) or western KS (GFS) come Sunday afternoon, with 63-70F Tds located east a dryline that is forecast to stretch southward from the sfc low. Aloft, strong southwesterly flow looks as though it'll move into the warm sector, with flow becoming progressively more meridional with latitude (e.g. S or SSW 500mb flow north of, say, Canadian, TX). Across much of the dryline, though, tonight's NAM is showing backed low-level flow that's resulting in 45-50kts deep-layer shear that's perpendicular to the dryline. Mid-level temps will likely remain quite warm (typical for fall) across the warm sector (with much cooler midlevel temps just behind the dryline), which won't do much for tropospheric lapse rates. As such, neither the GFS nor the NAM are showing CAPE in (what I would call) the marginal to moderate range. Of course, CAPE is difficult to forecast beyond a day or two (and some would argue that GFS forecast CAPE is shady to begin with), but it doesn't look like it'll be a high CAPE (>3000 j/kg) day.

As it stands now, it looks like there's a strong possibility of tornadic supercells across western and central KS, western OK and the OK panhandle, and the TX panhandle. The uncertainty, unfortunately, is quite high, which isn't uncommon for cut-off lows in the western US. In fact, the ECMWF from this morning looks like it's about 12 hours slower than the GFS, moving the 500mb low into the western Plains Monday morning. I'm typically not too hot on warm-sector activity associated with cut-off upper-level lows, since it seems that the warm sector gets shunted well southeast of the sfc low. I suppose that a cold-core play may be valid if the upper-low ends up farther east than currently forecast, but, for now at least, it looks more like a good dryline setup than a cold-core setup. Something that is certainly worth keeping an eye on (yes, I'm ending with a preposition ;P).
 
I agree with Jeff's good analysis of the latest output. I'm encouraged to see the NCEP operational runs in better agreement on the timing and orientation of the trough, though now I'm worried that further 'slowing' will push this into a nocturnal event or even early Monday.

Looks like "CAPE-robber" style midlevel temps so probably won't be the most photogenic towers, but perhaps we can get something to happen underneath if we realize favorable low level turning and luck out with a boundary or two. I'll be more comfortable with the details on Saturday, of course.
 
I think Sunday has big and probably significant tornadic supercell opportunities if timing remains as locked in as the GFS has been showing. It is good to see the ETA coming in line with a powerful negatively tilted wave. I am liking tornadic supercell potential from the N.Texas Panhandle into SW/WC Kansas by Sunday afternoon, with possibly some cold core action. Certainly looks worthy of a long drive out I-70 on Sunday to chase. Maybe my Sunday luck will continue...
 
I have been eyeing this setup for a couple of days now on the GFS. The previous NAM runs showed a crashing cold front into southern OK by Sunday evening. The new run is an incredible improvement though. I went to my work this evening and found someone to take my shift at the chance of some storms sunday, it is beginning to feel like the right decision. The NAM is showing stronger Tds than previous GFS runs had (GFS had lower 60's at best). Its just good to see some 500mb winds of that magnitude back into this region of the US finally. I was hoping the models would show atleast some agreement, which seems to be the case atleast with the NAM (hopefully the GFS has not changed too much). Only fear at the current moment is the precip breaking out very early on the NAM to go along with no CIN by noon. With 3 days out, I wont lose much sleep over it, not yet atleast. Day 3 outlook should be interesting.
 
I think Sunday has big and probably significant tornadic supercell opportunities if timing remains as locked in as the GFS has been showing. It is good to see the ETA coming in line with a powerful negatively tilted wave. I am liking tornadic supercell potential from the N.Texas Panhandle into SW/WC Kansas by Sunday afternoon, with possibly some cold core action. Certainly looks worthy of a long drive out I-70 on Sunday to chase. Maybe my Sunday luck will continue...

At first I didn't agree, but you may be correct if the WRF verifies. It has a more negative tilt than the GFS, allowing for very backed low level flow beneath a very strong southwesterly 500mb jet. That makes for some pretty incredible 0-3 km shear. The GFS is in general agreement with the timing of the intense shortwave. But it has a more neutral tilt than the WRF, owing to a more unidirectional 0-6km shear which would likely result in an intense squall line.

Regardless of the tilt differences, there should be a cold-core setup in Western Kansas - those are such a headache to forecast 3 days out!

Personally I never trust the WRF beyond 48 hours, so I'm siding with the GFS. But, this event is 3 days away. Should be interesting watching the models over the next couple days.
 
Looking at the 06z MesoEta...it looks like the area firmly under the gun will be in the area bounded by Perryton TX to Dodge City KS to Ness City KS to Pratt KS to Alva OK to Woodward OK. Still have many model runs to mull over but this area really stands out when you look at all the classic factors. Looks like a high shear - moderate instability setup and feel the tornado potential still looks good enough to chase Sunday.
 
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Not seeing a "cold-core" setup in KS or anywhere else on this last WRF run. Surface low is weak (Not even close to being sub 1000 mb), and that vort max is way out there. Looks like the cold front wins on this run, except for maybe further south into the panhandles. I'm hoping the GFS sheds some light for Sunday, as I'm sure the models will continue to flip flop over the next several runs. The WRF is known for advancing those fronts too far south, and have handled drylines poorly, advancing them too far to the east, earlier in the year, so I'm not putting too much into a 12z WRF run!
 
Agree with that Dick...both the ETA and GFS look a tad bit slower on the 12z run on the main wave...and quite a bit more stretched out on the surface features. Plenty of change coming I am sure on both models so will be cautiously optimistic (at least until we get into that 24 hr. range).
 
I'm concerned that the NAM, the most optimistic model of last night's runs, seems to be trending towards the GFS/ECMWF solution of a more neutral-tilt trough for Sunday evening.

http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/00/images/nam_500_072m.gif
vs.
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/12/images/nam_500_060m.gif

Obviously a lot can still change, but it seems trends often mean more than any one model run, especially when the lone wolf decides to join the pack. We'll see.
 
Here I have a stretch lol. It seems that the models are almost trending towards something closer to what the NAM originally had(though quicker if I remember right). So, since the NAM is so bad at those lengths, maybe it won't really happen.

That is funny though. I remember commenting on the NAM sucking when it was showing that, and now I look at the 0z ecmwf and it looks very similar to that old run of the NAM. 12z GFS also similar to that sort of evolution, wanting to shear it north in a positive tilt fashion. Actually the gfs wants to split it, but then comes back around to a decent sized low on Monday. Looks like it's just barely thinking the thing needs to split like that. I wouldn't be surprised to see tonights run go back to one entity coming out on Sunday. Course I'm remembering a system looking very similar to that last year, with those two lows in pretty much the same location, and the trough between them really battling it out on the watervapor image. Can't remember what date that was.
 
My hunches are still aimed at the DDC area as my target for Sunday's chase. It is so darn typical that this area seems to light up anytime one of these systems moves out into the High Plains. I am guessing that the triple point will end up around Liberal or Meade KS by late Sat. afternoon. This would put the DDC area in a favorable shear and strong convergence zone under a strong (but not too powerful) mid-level jet.
 
Just restating what others have already noted, but it looks like my skepticism on the last couple WRF runs was warrented. The latest has trended toward the GFS, with a more neutral tilt. Suppose there's still time for this to change, but this setup does not look appealing.
 
I only glanced the WRF, but it looks like a typical late year disappointment. Shear is great speed-wise but unidirectional, instability is lacking, and the helicity is behind the front. I don't like diagonal lines on dewpoint/temp maps. No kinks, no buldges. Not impressed at all.

But that's a model.

We'll see how things look in reality early Sunday and go from there, when real chasecasting begins.
 
It's interesting to note, I was just watching the water vapor loops. It appears to me it may already be taking on negative tilt characteristics, and is still digging further south, At the same time, it's just now starting to touch on NW AZ. Most of the 12z models I looked at today had it more positive tilted and much further east by now.
 
It's interesting to note, I was just watching the water vapor loops. It appears to me it may already be taking on negative tilt characteristics, and is still digging further south, At the same time, it's just now starting to n touch on NW AZ. Most of the 12z models I looked at today had it more positive tilted and much further east by now.

Interesting observation, David. I think the models might be underforecasting the strength of this system due to poor initialization.

It appears that the 12Z NAM and GFS 12-hour temperature forecast at H5 is too warm in comparison with the 00Z observations along the Pacific coast. The GFS forecasted temps between -25 and -27 C at 00Z Sat over the western tier states. The NAM forecast was similar with a forecasted range over the same area between -25 and -28 C. However, observations from this evening show H5 temps that are between 2 and 3 C colder than the model forecast. The 00Z H5 temp observations range between -27 and -30 C (the lowest temp was observed at Medford, OR). It appears that both models may have underestimated the strength of this system, and may be continuing to do so (the 00Z NAM initialized H5 temps too warm over N CA/S OR).

Gabe
 
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