Storm Chasing Vehicle Project and Suggestions!

[Justin Wilcox]

Okay Marcus and Justin, the original post probably said some things it shouldn't have but, that doesn't give you the excuse to act like arrogant snobs for the rest of the thread. We're trying to bring in new people to participate on the forum, not drive them away. There is plenty of information on this site to help someone become a better chaser and better understand supercells and tornadogenesis.

I don't really understand the dog pile mentality here either at times Travis. This feels like Mike Tobin's thread from a few weeks ago all over again, only the players have changed. The mentality that if a person spends the time studying, preparing, practicing, and thinking through all the scenarios under which a person can get hurt while chasing seems to have taken on a life of its own since El Reno. I'm all for teaching newer members about safety in chasing, but the cold, hard facts are if it happened to Tim Samaras and his crew it can happen to anyone of us. I certainly wouldn't want to be the guy that throws stones at every new chaser that comes along, only to find myself rolled in a field ala Mike Bettes this coming chase season or anytime in the future.

It isn't the safety message I have a problem with, it's the delivery that needs work. I also hope this won't discourage you from pursuing your apparent passion for storm chasing.

Oh he went back and edited his original post. Had he said that from the beginning I would have just laughed my a55 off behind my monitor like everyone else and kept it movin. Why coddle things like this? And you cant throw the Twistex accident out there like that. Theres no way I would have made the decisions they made.

 

[Travis Cruz]

The only thing I edited was the first paragraph. I left the rest the same. And I called him an ignorant asshole because he took a personal shot at me without knowing anything about me.

 

[Travis Cruz]

But I apologize. I came to these forums seeking advice from more experienced chasers. Instead, I was put down and greeted with hate and anger. So yes, I was a little angry.

 

[Justin Wilcox]

Right, that edit clarified everything. And for the record, my main concern was with the rhino lined mud missile flying around at 70 mph. I dont care how much money you spend on a vehicle to do the same thing as Randy Hicks. Before your edit, I understood you wanted to be able to fly 70mph down slick mud roads, and I will be damned if I cant voice concern over that. You're not the first, and definitely wont be the last. Its nothing personal man. I had a Skywarn T-shirt and decal once.

 

[Marcus Diaz]

Seeking advice from more experienced chasersis very welcomed in these forums. Especially those seeking forecasting and chasing advice. Coming in here, showing everyone you have a big expensive chase vehicle, and then asking everyone what you should add...that just speaks for itself. You just have to believe that you're not the only person to we've seen invest more in equipment than knowledge. If you invest in the knowledge, you won't need a big fancy duelly truck to get close and stay safe. And yes, I can be an asshole at times. But 95% of the time, I'm a big loveable guy. You just came off as every other newbie chaser with lots of money/"sponsors" that think they can buy their way into being a successful chaser. The best way to become a great chaser is go out and fail hundreds of times and learn everytime. If you score a great day, then remember what led you there and repeat. That's about as bone basic as I can put it.

 

[Justin Wilcox]

Nobody said they hated you. You could be one hell of a guy for all I know. And I really hope you have success viewing tornadoes and storms. But to quote Mark "Its not the message people have a problem with, its the delivery that needs work". When you say things like:
"- Our goals are much different than most other chasers. We've built the truck to not only chase storms, but to be able to get up close and personal with them, when safe. This includes encountering potentially large hail stones and other small debris. "
It makes people cringe because its not at all different from a lot of chasers out there. Anyway, no apologies needed Cruzz. This was a discussion actually, for the not-so passive people. Threads like this are okay imo. Otherwise I doubt anyone would have even responded and kept it movin. But now you've had a chance to clarify some things and move on. THATS what forums are for.

 

[James Hammett]

I did NOT build this vehicle to be more reckless while chasing. I built the vehicle to be able to withstand more, and be more capable, if I do happen to make a mistake. I do NOT think the vehicle is indestructible. I do NOT think I can withstand a tornado. Expect the unexpected. If I have a way to increase safety, there fore increasing my chance of survival, why would I not? I know when to get out of a dangerous situation. For example, the picture below, of the Denver storm. We were 5 miles away. Why? Because the "reported" tornado was rain wrapped, and we wanted to stay well ahead of the storm and away from danger. So please, before you comment, don't just brush me off as another fool who thinks he's invincible because he has a more capable vehicle. I know just how dangerous chasing can be.

Learning to stay safe while chasing for me is analogous to learning to stay safe while driving. Driving at 16 I didn't know what I didn't know and after long-form chasing for 11 seasons I'm still learning what the dangers are and are not.

I think the legit points being made so far aren't implying ill intent. The concern would be that an illusion of protection a big truck can provide might instill overconfidence that would put other chasers in danger. Contrary to what's portrayed on TV most of the danger in chasing involves the risk of auto accidents and most of what keeps you and other chasers around you safe is experience...not equipment. Knowing how hard to push it in traffic on Bob's Road with severe cross-winds...knowing what parts of the storm to avoid...knowing how much attention must remain on the act of driving...etc. Not getting where you want to be or out of it safely is usually due to bad navigation/nowcast, chaser traffic, or lack of any road rather than vehicle capability.

Many of us chase in compact cars which would stand no chance in an accident against a 9000lb truck. The difference between a 3000lb and 9000lb vehicle means very little when you're talking about winds strong enough to get lofted. But the large truck would take a lot longer to emergency-stop and the wind load on the side is stronger.

I'm a big equipment/technology nerd when it comes to chasing and my goals are probably similar to yours...get in a good position and back out as safely as possible. But be open to the possibility that experience over time might change where you put your efforts in order to accomplish your goals.

 

[Skip Talbot]

I do need to stress that this forum is about having an open venue for all chasers, forecasters, and severe weather enthusiasts. We all come from different backgrounds and have different motives, and I don't believe there are more deserving chasers than others or those whose motives are more pure. Constructive criticism is great, but let's keep things friendly. I'd hate to see this place devolve into name calling flame wars as soon as the activity picks up again after months of idling.

the cold, hard facts are if it happened to Tim Samaras and his crew it can happen to anyone of us. I certainly wouldn't want to be the guy that throws stones at every new chaser that comes along, only to find myself rolled in a field ala Mike Bettes this coming chase season or anytime in the future.

This is the dangerous mentality I'm alluding to in my original post in this thread. Samaras was one of my heroes, but this notion that his chasing style was one of exemplary safety is false. Motives aside, Samaras and Young chased in an extremely aggressive and dangerous manner so I don't agree with this idea of, "if it happened to them it could happen to anyone". They chased with such a narrow margin for error that any mistake would be catastrophic. Those who place safety as their top priority, those who maintain safe distances and escapes routes, and those who don't aggressively push the envelope may never find themselves in such a position.

Identifying where chasers erred is not throwing stones. Identifying these errors is necessary for learning from them so that we can all become better and safer chasers. I'm an aggressive chaser and push the envelope sometimes. I might be the next chaser to get killed. However, that we all make mistakes shouldn't disqualify us from evaluating how we and others chase and bettering ourselves from it. Then maybe some of us won't wind up being the next Bettes because some took the time to figure out where folks went wrong and what they could have done differently, rather than keeping silent due to fear of damaging their pride or being labeled a hypocrite.

 

[Jason Boggs]

And here we are with another amateur chaser that gets bent out of shape when someone tries to set them straight. I agree that the vehicle is just for the "hey, look at me effect". If you spend more time on actual things that make you a better chaser...forecasting, safety, storm structure, etc., you will be well on your way to becoming a more respected chaser in the field.

 

[Jason Boggs]

Thank you for the kind response. I realize that the truck has major limitations, but I'm still puzzled why anyone would talk it down to the extent they are. The goal of the truck is to be more safe and capable than a smaller vehicle.. Not for recklessness, but for overall safety. I'm not sure why anyone would argue against that.

Nobody talked down on the truck. They talked down on what you said you planned to do with it.

 

[Mark Blue]

They talked down on what you said.

That's at the crux of the issue Jason. Why can't we build people up vs tearing them down? We've had two guys in a row that felt less than enchanted with the way they were treated, so if that's acceptable I must have missed the memo. It's all about being tactful and supportive of each other, especially if a person wants their message to be heard and understood. That's all.

 

[Jason Boggs]

That's the problem Mark. When we try to talk to some people, they take offense and "think" we are talking down on them. If they can't take advice without getting bent out of shape, they don't need to be here. And by the way, I don't think Marcus ever called him an ignorant asshole did he???? Like Marcus, I'm not on here to win over heart's or to necessarily be liked. I'm on here to continue to learn, and voice my opinion if I see someone saying something that I don't agree with.

 

[Mark Blue]

If you talk down to someone it will probably fall on deaf ears. If you talk with someone you will hopefully win them over and they'll listen to what you have to say (most likely). FWIW, it's all in the delivery. Treat others the way you would want to be treated is about as simple as it gets if I may say so. That's the essence of what Dan was getting at in the minefield post today when he said, "On the flip side".

 

[John Olexa]

We don't seem to be starting off the new year very well here.

 

[TJKLECKNER]

The best advice for new people on this forum...lay in the shadows and don't post anything in fear of criticism. If you want to share something, go to another site

 

[Travis Cruz]

That's the problem Mark. When we try to talk to some people, they take offense and "think" we are talking down on them. If they can't take advice without getting bent out of shape, they don't need to be here. And by the way, I don't think Marcus ever called him an ignorant asshole did he???? Like Marcus, I'm not on here to win over heart's or to necessarily be liked. I'm on here to continue to learn, and voice my opinion if I see someone saying something that I don't agree with.

This is an absolute joke. Did you even read Marcus's first comment? He didn't talk "to" me. He was absurdly rude and judgmental, without knowing anything about me. He could have easily made some of his points without coming off as childish. Half of the things that he tried to point out to me were things that he misread himself, yet he continued to belittle me. If that is this forums version of trying to talk to someone, god help you all. I welcome your opinions. I'm okay if you don't agree with my methods. That's why I posted here, to get constructive criticism. Not a couple jerks talking down on the new guy

 

[Jason Boggs]

Mark, if advice is given to some teenagers or know-it-all's, it will fall on deaf ears. TJKLECKNER, prepare to be criticized (corrected) if you want to prepare to learn. The best advice for new people on this site.......Do what you do, but expect to be corrected or questioned when needed. When you take this as help instead of being negative, you will learn and be grateful that someone was willing to help you.

 

[Travis Cruz]

Mark, if advice is given to some teenagers or know-it-all's, it will fall on deaf ears. TJKLECKNER, prepare to be criticized (corrected) if you want to prepare to learn. The best advice for new people on this site.......Do what you do, but expect to be corrected or questioned when needed. When you take this as help instead of being negative, you will learn and be grateful that someone was willing to help you.

I'm neither a teenager, nor a know it all. I'm an inexperienced amateur. I've stated that clear many times. Don't act like nobody here has been negative toward me.

 

[Jason Boggs]

This is an absolute joke. Did you even read Marcus's first comment? He didn't talk "to" me. He was absurdly rude and judgmental, without knowing anything about me. He could have easily made some of his points without coming off as childish. Half of the things that he tried to point out to me were things that he misread himself, yet he continued to belittle me. If that is this forums version of trying to talk to someone, god help you all. I welcome your opinions. I'm okay if you don't agree with my methods. That's why I posted here, to get constructive criticism. Not a couple jerks talking down on the new guy

You talk about Marcus being childish and you call him an ignorant asshole? Now, that's a joke. Anyway, enough is enough. Stormcruzzer, just learn to take criticism with a smile and learn from it. It's a nice ride, but don't neglect other things in your pursuit to chase.

 

[Travis Cruz]

Yes I did call him that, and later apologized. I was extremely upset about being greeted with belittlement. I take criticism just fine. I don't, however, take being talked down upon.

 

[Steve Miller]

The fact that StormCruzzer is here in the first place says he is seeking information that will benefit him moving forward; and with one really nice ride to boot. Some of the comments here have been embarrassing to me and do not reflect on the ST community as a whole. Challenges are common and welcome but attacks do little but fill 5 pages of thread with less than productive, time-wasting banter. We can do better than this.

 

[Jason Boggs]

True......What my main point to this is that it's ok to be criticized. Take it with a smile and learn form the criticism. I agree that we can do better. It's never ok when name calling and belittling begins from either side. Give criticism with respect, and take it with respect.

 

[Travis Cruz]

Your main point is missing the point.. I wasn't greeted with criticism. I was greeted with belittlement. Both Skip and Jon voiced their concerns respectfully, which I responded to respectfully. Marcus didn't. That's the main point

 

[Jason Boggs]

Your main point is missing the point.. I wasn't greeted with criticism. I was greeted with belittlement. Both Skip and Jon voiced their concerns respectfully, which I responded to respectfully. Marcus didn't. That's the main point

Then get with Marcus and get it taken care of. If not, then just carry on.

 

[Mark Blue]

All of this unproductive banter needs to stop. This entire thread and others like it are an unnecessary thorn in the side of ST and are an embarrassment to put it mildly. For anyone who thinks they can post with impunity I'd recommend you take a time out and think better of it.