Silver Lining Tours vans rolled in Kansas

[Tony Laubach]

Sure, I understand what you're saying. If they drove blindly in there with an ongoing EF4 and maxed-out couplet, they would deserve every bit of criticism coming. And they may still depending on what evidence emerges. But based on what I've seen so far, their position didn't seem entirely unreasonable for someone of their experience level. They were southeast of a northeast-moving meso that hadn't even produced yet, and from Quincy's video, it appeared that there was *some* visibility. The main point of contention is that some wouldn't put a tour group in the notch of an HP under any circumstance, which I see as the main point of disagreement.

And BTW I didn't mean to look as if I was singling you out Tony, this thread has gone viral with similar opinions expressed elsewhere and I felt the need to address the overall counter argument.

No singling out taken. This is a hot topic, deservingly so. And I'm just hopeful we start taking lessons from these incidents as they are on the increase, not only in numbers, but in impact. And its very concerning to me that these high-impact incidents are happening to those with the experience and longevity in this activity.

 

[Dan Robinson]

My thinking on why it's happening to the more experienced is that the newbies don't have a clue on how to get within 10 miles of a tornado. That is, if it's happening with anything but a slow-moving ultra-highly-visible classic supercell. As someone said in an earlier thread, they're back gawking at scud fingers on the tail end of the RFD gust front while the meso is 15 miles northeast of them. It takes a lot of skill and pinpoint chase execution to get close (within a mile) on a regular basis. I'm still not even that good at it myself, and manage it only a couple of times a year. If you have the experience, you know where to put yourself to see the action, many times before it even begins. The newbies are only going to find themselves there by sheer dumb luck. My first few Plains chases I was always behind fast moving storms, hopelessly out of position.

Shane, 10 miles may be a bit hyperbolic, I'll admit. But by some standards I've been hearing, not so much. Everyone has an opinion on what is "close". For me, it's my DDC and Bennington days where I reached within 1/3 mile. For some that's pretty tame. For others, it's reckless.

 

[Jason Boggs]

So which is it? A simple double standard with which free passes are reserved exclusively for the famous/popular, or are people so desensitized to these accidents they simply no longer care or are angered by irresponsibility?

This is a great point. I honestly think the famous/popular chasers are given a free ride, and IMO it's a crying shame.

 

[Warren Faidley]

I'm no longer famous and certainly not popular since I no longer grant interviews and often rage at the circus that has become storm chasing. Regardless, I still want people to call me out when I do something stupid as I am not above any other chaser. Doswell did that a few times and I listened. To be honest, it irritates the hell out of me to see a few idiots getting away with all kinds of stunts without any chastising from the media or other chasers. Where the hell is the angry media and so-called "writers" who hounded me years ago for things I never did or said? Where are the "anti-chaser" / slanderous comments from TWC that caused me so much financial disruption? If I had pulled some of the current stunts 20 years ago, I would have been totally banished from the storm chasing world. Now days, it's totally acceptable behavior.

 

[Steve Holmes]

Reed Timmer's book includes a story about a German exchange student who wanted to go storm chasing. When they encountered a massive tornado in South Dakota (Manchester?), the guy turned into a sobbing basket case.

Do tour companies screen potential clients to weed out the folks at both extremes of risk-taking? It's one thing to sign a release and be warned, to *think* they're ready for up-close-and-personal. It is quite another to *be* in that situation. Do the companies run different types of tours to accomodate varying tolerances of risk? It's easy to imagine a situation in which half the passengers want to go in closer and the other half want to back off as far as Montreal.

 

[Robert Reynolds]

Quincy, from what I can tell from your video, the main base/meso wasn't completely rain wrapped just prior to the incident? In other words, the expectation was for that area to the northwest to be the area of concern. Was there ANY visual indication of something coming from the southwest?

I can't speak for Quincy....I can only relate our experience to this storm. It's definitely one I will never forget and will constantly learn from. We were very close to being another statistic of this storm.

We were focused on the area of circulation to the WNW of Lone Star Lake and headed north on E. 550 Rd. It didn't seem to be overly concerning at the time, both visually and on radar (more on that in a minute). About N. 500 Rd, we encountered heavy bands of rain and wind. Our radar still showed the area of concern was just to our north, so we assumed it must be RFD. At 6:02 pm, I have the 4 vans on my dashcam headed south at the intersection of E. 550 Rd and N. 600 Rd (that's the road that curves along the south end of Lone Star Lake). We followed a truck in front of us into the parking lot of the church just north of the intersection. About that time, I noticed my data signal was poor and the radar had not updated. We didn't really like where we were at and had a gut feeling something was not right, but we still assumed the circulation just to the north was intensifying. We opted to head east on N. 600 Rd - we were likely only a minute or two behind Quincy. This paved road transitioned to dirt. At 6:05 pm, in heavy rain and poor visibility, we saw debris floating in the air, and a second later the tornado appeared in the field just off the right front of our truck - it was so rain-wrapped we couldn't see it until we were right on it (the dashcam actually shows better visibility and contrast than what we had).

A few minutes after that, our data signal improved and the radar suddenly updated, showing an strong intense couplet very close to our location. As soon as we were able to get phone reception, we called Douglas County 911 and gave the first confirmation of a tornado on the ground on the south end of Lone Star Lake, headed NE.

We tried to continue east, but the road was blocked by tree damage. We turned around with the intention of heading back to 56 Hwy, and ultimately came upon the vans that had been rolled. We stopped to check on them, finding only minor injuries. There was a number of people already stopped to assist and EMS was on it's way, so we continued on as the storm intensified.

My chase partner and I are not high-profile chasers - we aren't reckless or extreme, and we are not meteorologists. I religiously follow this forum and other media, but rarely participate. But we are not new to the game either....I have 10+ years of chasing and my partner has 20+. His wife was with us and also has multiple years of chasing. We had no firm indication from our perspective that anything had developed to our southwest and was moving in on us. The lag in radar data really led us to the false assumption that we were still south of the area of concern, hence our reason to head east. I'm curious if anyone else in the area had issues with reception like we did. I have dashcam video in the minutes leading up to this that I would also be happy to share....it will take a couple days for me to get it posted due to a family event this weekend. Hopefully there can be a lot to learn from this situation so that it doesn't repeat itself in the future.

 

[Jesse Risley]

I'm curious if anyone else in the area had issues with reception like we did. I have dashcam video in the minutes leading up to this that I would also be happy to share....it will take a couple days for me to get it posted due to a family event this weekend. Hopefully there can be a lot to learn from this situation so that it doesn't repeat itself in the future.

There were reception issues, more so from the standpoint that upload and download speeds were stunted on VZW. That isn't necessarily rare, however, for these types of situations, as I assume towers become saturated as chasers converge on the area, every local tries to stream the news sites or get radar data, and hoards of passerby travelers stop to seek shelter. I stopped and went west on N1000 and Hwy 59. The biggest visual clue for me was the shifting direction of the winds from N to S and the near violent motion of the rain band curtains as the RFD surged ENE.

 

[Jeremy Bower]

Looks like on Monday night the next episode of the WeatherBrains podcast will talk about this incident. Usually recorded live on YouTube at 8:30 p.m. CT.

 

[James Wilson]

I put together this map attempting to visualize the possible series of events depicted on the radar grabs that @Jeff Snyder posted above. The NWS survey track is partially faded out:

View attachment 18572

Quincy, from what I can tell from your video, the main base/meso wasn't completely rain wrapped just prior to the incident? In other words, the expectation was for that area to the northwest to be the area of concern. Was there ANY visual indication of something coming from the southwest?

We witnessed wind shifts along 56 highway east of Overbrook but could not see anything visually. That is where the first tornado started that eventually merged.

 

[Warren Faidley]

I'm always cautious about shows and productions about chasing, especially those produced by chasers. It's such a small community, the productions are often self-censored to avoid retaliation and flaming. The recent production about the history of chasing was a good example, and I refused to participate when the producer refused to expose the clowns.

 

[Quincy Vagell]

@Dan Robinson, I’ll get the video up today if I can. I’m on the road chasing for one more day.

At 5:55, I’m roughly 1 mile southwest of the incident in question with a camera recording to the west. You can see a wall cloud to the WNW, but to the WSW/SW, there’s a rain curtain that comes into frame. That’s when I started heading north and then east to stay ahead of the broad circulation.

The bluish rain curtain is similar in appareance to what will be seen for much of the duration of the eventual tornado.

 

[Blake Knapp]

Thoughts from a Tour Owner:

The approach I take when chasing on my own, vs. when I have a van full of guests is different. The risks I'm willing to take myself SHOULD be different than what guests "think" they are willing to take. First time tour guests have NO IDEA what they're getting into. So while there is assumed risk, and they've signed a waiver, when the $#!? hits the fan, all that theoretical stuff flies out the window & reality sets in very quickly.

On my first trip out stormchasing I was a passenger with Extreme Tornado Tours. And the first storm I ever chased produced an EF2 that killed three people near Kirksville, MO. That tornado impacted our van west of town and we're lucky to have escaped. The guide was so green that 20 minutes later he did it again on the east side of town, and the only reason we didn't get smacked again was Twistex turning around in a driveway, blocking our path into the 2nd tornado. Before going out, I had a conversation in my head that basically said, this is something that I want to do, and there is a risk of me dying, and I accept that risk. But when debris started impacting our van, and loose objects, branches, grass, were flying past us into the circulation as we backed up, that acceptance of risk went right out the window. I had no idea the real danger. Truthfully, it took several more years to truly understand how close we were to not making it out of there... When I started my own company, I vowed to never put my guests in that kind of position.

These incidents are far more frequent than is publicly known, for obvious reasons. It's much easier to tout our successes than to admit our failures. I know there were additional incidents during El Reno with close calls with tours. They'll continue to happen - that's the nature of what we do chasing tornadoes, but not being able to see danger is a terrible problem for a tour operator to have. If I've seen more tornadoes than anyone alive, and I've seen how close my tour was to disaster in Joplin, and close friends of mine died in El Reno, and we've had chaser deaths since then, and convergence is getting worse, then I don't know how I let a tornado that big get that close on a MDT day, in an area with hills & trees, and known flooding issues. Ultimately, it comes down to negligence.

I think most if not all tours have the waivers, and like most have said, they're more of a deterrent than a protection. I can guarantee I'm one of the FEW tours that actually carries insurance. It's incredibly hard to find and incredibly expensive. My coverage cost me on average $12,000.00 per year. It's hard to turn the corner with that high a figure. That's why most tours just don't have it. A bunch probably lie. And the only way we truly find out is when something bad happens, and everything gets exposed.

And exposure, ultimately, is what we're all arguing about here. We all know that situations happen, and we can find ourselves in bad positions. Most of us learn from those mistakes and do our best not to repeat them. There are things I did in the early days of my career I'd never do today. But the only good way to deal with those things is with transparency. And transparency is exactly the opposite of what we're getting in this incident. THERE IS NO WAY that 4 vans full of guests were that close to a tornado, on a MDT day and weren't shooting literally hundreds if not thousands of frames of photos and video. Guests take pictures & video of everything - sure they'll get tornadoes & storm structure, but most don't know what scud is. Every pointy cloud is a funnel. They don't know what's important and what's not, so they shoot everything. And here we are 4 days later and no video is online? That stinks to high heavens. To me, that means there's something to hide. To me, it indicates they've been instructed (or ordered) to not post their photos & videos. To not comment. You all know that video of that incident would bring $3,000-4,000+ from media companies starved for the next "extreme video"... Already there are inconsistencies with the "official story" and what we've put together with radar, gps, and damage surveys. Much of forecasting is pattern recognition. Connecting the dots. Maybe a big reason so many are hesitant to connect the dots in this instance is because they already know the picture it will make when they've been filled in...

 

[Ben Holcomb]

If you want to read some of the locals' reactions, visit this fb post

https://www.facebook.com/308210659344498/posts/1256113791220842

Holy crap there are some angry people!

 

[William Spencer]

In all honesty, I think they have every right to be outraged. Unlike situations where townsfolk become very anti-chaser after their town is hit, we actually took several EMS resources away from the town when they could have been used for injured local residents. We all have a responsibility to chase "respectfully", but it is especially important for tours. One of the many great aspects of chasing is that we have the freedom to chase how we want, but I don't think this applies to tour groups. An individual can get as close as they want because they are responsible for themselves and (hopefully) know and accept the risks, but tours are responsible for a whole group of people. To quote Blake Knapp, "They'll get tornadoes & storm structure, but most don't know what scud is. Every pointy cloud is a funnel. They don't know what's important and what's not, so they shoot everything." They have very little idea of what's actually going on, amd their safety is entirely dependant on the tour guide. Hopefully SL and other tour groups take a deep look at what went wrong and make changes to increase the level of safety they provide their clients.

 

[Warren Faidley]

Thanks Ben for posting this update. As I've read here and elsewhere, if this had been one of the popular / unpopular idiots, it would have been a different story and likely taken a "heroic" tone -- even though the overall reasoning for getting too close was / is the same, to make money, self promotion or for social media glory. I'm sure these people are upset but no one was injured responding so it's a closed case for them. I seriously doubt their county will ever have a similar event.