School me on HP chase strategies

[Paul Redmond]

I have had problems in the past intercepting HP storms, I always start off with the best intentions and end up in the scud and the rain hearing about wall clouds and funnels to the south and east of me . So what am I doing wrong.

 

[Chris Hayes]

I, myself will NOT pursue tornados in HP storms. I just dont like the thought of doing it. I'll get ahead of the storm and watch the storm and it's structure, hoping to maybe see a tornado emerge from the rain. IF I were to pursue tornados in an HP storm, 2 things would need to be in place.

1) The storm not be moving, or moving very slowly
2) Absolutely great road network

It's just not worth the risk in my opinion. I'd just rather watch the storm evolve into a beast.

 

[Mikey Gribble]

When you see the horse shoe shaped updraft base in front of you (looking West), follow the right side of it back into the rain. For god's sake go slow though. You'll bump into the tornado sooner or later lol.
Seriously though, that is terrible advice, especially when you consider how fast the storms will be moving tomorrow. I've only bumped into tornadoes in the bears cage a few times and it will make your hair stand up. I would advise against it if you've never done it before, but then again I guess we all have to do it for the first time sooner or later. I certainly wouldn't do it tomorrow though with fast storm motions and a distinct possibility of strong tornadoes (if we get HP storms). You don't want to screw around with that. Here is a good link showing pictures and details of HP supercells.
http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gl)/guides/mtr/svr/type/spr/hp/flw.rxml

 

[Laura Duchesne]

We like to intercept all supercells from the south east (assuming it is traveling in a northeast direction), even if it's HP. That way we get to see some structure and maybe a tornado... if it isn't obscured by precip. We (with two different partners) got in a bear's cage on May 12, 2000 because we had no idea we were headed straight into the large supercell (low cloud deck obscuring view) and it was scary. We were chasing with no radar or nowcaster.

 

[Brandon Goforth]

Mikey explained it pretty well right there, and I also strongly advice against trying to get into that mess, cause if the storm is moving very fast at all you can get yourself into some real trouble fast. Trying to intercept a tornado with near zero visible can be very dangerous, and even more dangerous when you can't get a signal for internet, which seems to happen most of the time. I've had my share of close calls with these things. The best thing to do is just stay out ahead of the storm and hope you can catch a glimpse. Man, it seems all I've chased this year are HP supercells...I desperately need some LP action, lol!

 

[Shane Adams]

If you get there early, treat it like a classic, though your window is very small. Otherwise, stay on the northeast quadrant. Also keep on your guard about right-turning and an increase in forward speed. HPs love to start ENE @10 then gradually transition into SE @35-40 as they prepare for the transition into an MCS crapfest.

And above all, stay in the clear. HPs not only have pesky rain to cloak the tornadoes (and effectively get you lost as you're searching for the tube) but some of the nastiest hail you'll ever encounter. HPs are better chased conservatively, not "REAL-TV" style

 

[Mike Peregrine]

I have had problems in the past intercepting HP storms, I always start off with the best intentions and end up in the scud and the rain hearing about wall clouds and funnels to the south and east of me . So what am I doing wrong.

lol - welcome to the club. HP is the preferred mode in eastern Kansas/western Missouri (not preferred by me, but it certainly seems to be preferred by the atmosphere), so we have grown quite accustomed to them around here.

You can attack them like you do other storms, but don't count on seeing anything until you are well into the notch. Flank development and rain are heavier (of course) ... so my eye is always looking through and ahead of rain bands. You have to train yourself to re-think the way the storm is structured/organized. I've learned to spot wall clouds through downdraft and wrap, and this is the biggest thing about chasing HP storms ... always keep your eye upstream. The action may have been where you were a few minutes ago, but keep an eye on what's going on up the road. You can still see features like inflow bands pointing to the areas of interest, but they often look more disorganized than in classic storms, which throws people. They can look choppy and outflowish. They're also ridiculously cyclic at times, and will look like they are totally falling apart one minute, only to kick butt a few minutes later (so if there has been any rotation at all, STICK WITH IT).

We were chasing a tornadic HP storm in 2004 near Skidmore, Missouri ... as we approached the meso (which was totally obscured), it was obvious that there was something behind the curtain because we started crossing damage. As we neared the notch, we got hit with strong RFD winds but still couldn't see the thing. As soon as we cleared that mess, there was pure, clear air up around the tornado. We just needed to force our way up into the notch.

While HP chasing may not be for everyone, it's what we get the most of, so we deal. It's one of the reasons we will often see things that others may tend to overlook. A lot of what may appear to be lucky or accidental catches weren't actually that much of an accident - I've just learned under brutal conditions. It's like learning to snow ski in a place like Missouri before you go to Colorado. The conditions where you learn the ropes are so bad that when you do finally get to enjoy the good stuff, it almost feels easy.

 

[Tim Shriver]

If you get there early, treat it like a classic, though your window is very small. Otherwise, stay on the northeast quadrant. Also keep on your guard about right-turning and an increase in forward speed. HPs love to start ENE @10 then gradually transition into SE @35-40 as they prepare for the transition into an MCS crapfest.

And above all, stay in the clear. HPs not only have pesky rain to cloak the tornadoes (and effectively get you lost as you're searching for the tube) but some of the nastiest hail you'll ever encounter. HPs are better chased conservatively, not "REAL-TV" style

I was wondering why you would want to stay "on the northeast quadrant."?

To me that would be the most rain dense area and also the
most dangerous if the cell is moving East or Northeast.

Am I missing something here? (wouldn't be the first time)

Thanks,

Tim

 

[Mike Peregrine]

No, he's right, Tim ... I don't think he's talking about going into the core, but I might word it more like ... you have to stay north and east of your typical position (it really almost is the northeast quadrant). In a classic you can stay due south and southeast, but these areas in HP are almost as bad as sitting in the core as far as seeing things is concerned. Your position has to stay east of the notch, and north of where you might usually want to be. (So be ready to move south if the storm turns right.)

If you haven't done it before, Mikey's point is good - take it easy for heavens sake ... until you get your bearings.

 

[Tim Shriver]

No, he's right, Tim ... I don't think he's talking about going into the core, but I might word it more like ... you have to stay north and east of your typical position (it really almost is the northeast quadrant). In a classic you can stay due south and southeast, but these areas in HP are almost as bad as sitting in the core as far as seeing things is concerned. Your position has to stay east of the notch, and north of where you might usually want to be. (So be ready to move south if the storm turns right.)

That makes sense, a little on the risky side but it would afford
a better view into the cell if the air was clean on the inflow.

I wouldnt want to try it with a cell speed of 55 mph though....ouch!
You would have to duck in and then back out fast before it
ran you over.

I'll have to find a slow mover running along I90 here in WI sometime

Tim

 

[Mike Peregrine]

Plus, in the storms tomorrow, the clean inflow will be coming in from the southeast as the storms move more north than east, so that would definitely force you to rethink your usual position strategy - - keep north-south road options open tomorrow.

 

[Susan Strom]

Also keep on your guard about right-turning and an increase in forward speed. HPs love to start ENE @10 then gradually transition into SE @35-40 as they prepare for the transition into an MCS crapfest.

Shane's right, that is so true. I was going to mention that but instead I'll just say "Yeah, what he said". Right-movers can do it suddenly too, like they have a mind of their own. A right-moving HP east of I-35 when the sun is going down among hills and trees can be icky. In my newbie days I would get suckered by those at the end of a chase (because I didn't want to stop chasing and there was lightning to be had) and end up in Arkansas after dark. You don't have to do that to yourself

One advantage to being further back from an HP (other than safety) is the nice structure shots and not having to wide angle so much to get the whole beast in. Close proximity can mean some ambiguity and losing sense of scale. The mothership look provides some context because usually there is some ground stuff in there too, like grain elevators or the everpresent watertower.

An HP is a machine. I love the looks of them but I do like the whole thing in frame. Further back is better for me, but I'm a photog.

 

[John Erwin]

Otherwise, stay on the northeast quadrant. Also keep on your guard about right-turning and an increase in forward speed...

...And above all, stay in the clear.

Some great advice there. This mode quite frankly frightens me but I chase whatever I can get here.. so I sure as hell make sure I have some maneuvering room to get out of the way if things get wild.

Sticking to the NE and well forward of the cell makes great sense to me.

 

[Adam Lucio]

When you see the horse shoe shaped updraft base in front of you (looking West), follow the right side of it back into the rain. For god's sake go slow though. You'll bump into the tornado sooner or later lol.
Seriously though, that is terrible advice, especially when you consider how fast the storms will be moving tomorrow. I've only bumped into tornadoes in the bears cage a few times and it will make your hair stand up. I would advise against it if you've never done it before, but then again I guess we all have to do it for the first time sooner or later. I certainly wouldn't do it tomorrow though with fast storm motions and a distinct possibility of strong tornadoes (if we get HP storms). You don't want to screw around with that. Here is a good link showing pictures and details of HP supercells.
http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gl)/guides/mtr/svr/type/spr/hp/flw.rxml

Very good advice, this is basically what we saw from HP that had produced tornadoes near New Liberty, Iowa back on Aril 25th:

We were indeed looking west into the horseshoe updraft region, you can see a "something" just at the edge of the 'clear slot'....you can better see it here with contrast enhanced:

To safely view an HP will often leave you with those "what was it" debates. To get closer often times is indeed a pretty hair raising situation. Theres not much more I can add, the most important thing you can do is know your storm structure, what direction it is moving, and what your road options are.

 

[Paul Redmond]

thanks for the info. I should preface that I do not like core punching either, though I have "tried" to do it several times with very little success. With potholes in the road and fears of hydroplaning, I just cannot drive fast in HP rain. I guess the best strategy is to maintain a good distance rather than get close.