Open Membership

[Jesse Risley]

I have no problem with a screened membership philosophy that includes a written essay. As bad as some think ST has become, it could be far worse. I'm sure the post quality, nonesense, and other "noise" would be far worse if the ST team didn't screen members and moderate the forums rather closely. Please note that I'm not suggesting that some recent concerns expressed in other threads have zero validity.

I'm a member of 6 different forums that serve various purposes, and this is only one of two forums that hasn't degraded into a total joke at times. I think the past history of membership screening and close moderation have paid off.

When making decisions like this, I think the mission and vision of the organization (ST in this case) must be taken into consideration.

 

[Wayne Hlinicky]

I assume that those us who were accepted back when the essay and chase credentials were required will be "grandfathered" into the new system-- correct?

I agree with Josh. Those of us who are already members need to be "grandfathered" in. We don't need a bunch of wantabe's who have never chased pass their back yards. My chase partner Earl, who is a member, and I work with and receive lots of help and info from KOKH Fox 25 in OKC when we are out in the field. I have a good working repor with this station and I want to keep it that way.

Having an Open Membership with just a click of the mouse to join will ruin a very good site. Most of us who are members are out in the field for a reason such as supplying info to tv stations, radio stations and the national weather service. I hope those of us who are already members are "grandfathered" in.

Thanks, Wayne

 

[Tim Vasquez]

Interesting discussion. I would love to have purely open membership and see our numbers go into the 10,000s (that would make for a rich pie of ad revenue) but it would ruin this board. We'd have the forums packed with people trying to hobnob with the storm chasers they see on the Discovery Channel, and the weather forum would have hundreds of poorly written stories about their great aunt getting hit by lightning and still smoking six packs a day and buying lottery tickets.

We've actually tried to make some efforts towards open memberships and had the board open for a few months, but we shut it off after we had enough complaints about declining quality and questionable people showing up. It's now February, so the hatches are battened down again for spring 2008 and we're redoubling our efforts to make sure we're focused on quality.

Anyhow there are no PhD or elite requirements here. We've all had the same basic upbringing in storm chasing, so the staff is actually quite adept at screening applications and reading between the lines to sense who has genuine long-term chase/meteorology interests. It's subjective and probably not the fairest way to do it, but it's the only system that seems to work. A look at the people we have on board (many of who made it past a screening requirement) is illustrative of how diverse a crowd we welcome. For those that don't make the cut, Stormtrack is not the only fish in the sea.

Tim

 

[Chris C Sanner]

Interesting discussion. I would love to have purely open membership and see our numbers go into the 10,000s (that would make for a rich pie of ad revenue) but it would ruin this board. We'd have the forums packed with people trying to hobnob with the storm chasers they see on the Discovery Channel, and the weather forum would have hundreds of poorly written stories about their great aunt getting hit by lightning and still smoking six packs a day and buying lottery tickets.

We've actually tried to make some efforts towards open memberships and had the board open for a few months, but we shut it off after we had enough complaints about declining quality and questionable people showing up. It's now February, so the hatches are battened down again for spring 2008 and we're redoubling our efforts to make sure we're focused on quality.

Anyhow there are no PhD or elite requirements here. We've all had the same basic upbringing in storm chasing, so the staff is actually quite adept at screening applications and reading between the lines to sense who has genuine long-term chase/meteorology interests. It's subjective and probably not the fairest way to do it, but it's the only system that seems to work. A look at the people we have on board (many of who made it past a screening requirement) is illustrative of how diverse a crowd we welcome. For those that don't make the cut, Stormtrack is not the only fish in the sea.

Tim

Here's a suggestion...why couldn't you do both? If you really wanted to expand the Stormtrack name and get more visitors couldn't you have a section for chaser by chasers (ie tightly moderated) that requires an essay and maybe other things to get into (that place would contain the target area forums, etc.) but have general forums which could be open for just anyone? I have seen a number of communities go this route to great success and I think it'd help get more and more people into the site if that's a goal but it'd also keep a section of the site at the highest quality possible.

The big drawback to that plan would be the open area probably would not contain the most enlightened discussion around, but it's really all in the question of what you guys want to do with the site and where you want it to go. Either direction would be fine IMHO but just wanted to throw a couple more cents into the jar

 

[Bill Tabor]

I too see the advantage of screened membership. Otherwise you get spammers, and people that just like to chat about anything, but hardly any knowledge or interest in weather. Then again popularity of The Weather Channel for instance is partly due because everyone is to some degree interested in weather and how it affects their lives. Of course, Stormtrack isn't just a weather site, but a severe weather / chaser site. I think I like Chris's idea above about differing levels of membership. Already almost all of Stormtrack is available for reading to almost everyone on the internet, except for perhaps Chaser Bar and Grill and maybe another area (I forget which). Perhaps there should be another area or section of Stormtrack allowing people to join and post about more leisurely and weather related topics. That would help build interest in Stormtrack and some of those members might eventually join the 'standard' Stormtrack portion of the board, plus it would provide a track record of who they are, what they are about, and if they tend to flame, or respect others, etc. Additionally this would provide Tim with the added revenue incentive to keep the board running and making it more worth his while. Alternatively keep in mind it may give Stormtrack more bad press....hard to call that one. Technically it really would be almost an entirely new forum beside the current one. I believe you STILL should maintain the entry requirements and standards in the 'standard' or 'traditional' Stormtrack forum though.

The question of course is what are the screening requirments, and how stringent will they be? I suspect part of the reason for the essay is not to say...you passed, but to prove you really do have enough of an interest to 'make the effort'. People willing to do this are more desirable member types. Along those lines...likely they would admit to having an interest in learning more about severe weather, and storm chasing, or taking part in it. Perhaps they already do.

Also personally (not to get too far off subject), I still prefer Target Area a higher tier, more moderated, restricted area. This is not the same as closed. This opinion is probably unpopular, and truthfully I can see it both ways; however I likely have a tendency to participate in it more if it were that way. I don't have a problem with open REPORTS, but I'm not sure of the advantage of having the world (including non-Stormtrack members) having the ability to read our forecasts, and possibly our nowcasts. Seems there is even a possibility of liability if newbie unskilled chasers, or the general public follows some of the better forecast target choices. Plus how many videos on Youtube are we currently watching from people that otherwise would have no way of catching a storm much less a tornado? Is that something we wish to enable? Sure, much of this can be blamed on SPC's Convective Outlooks, Mesoscales, and Watches being much more accurate and available nowadays as opposed to years ago, but often those are very large areas. It is fairly difficult to chase well using an SPC Outlook area - though it can be done. Ok, now I know that there are those of you saying...'Ok, what's wrong with that?'. Just my opinion I suppose...I think it should be more highly restricted information, but like I say it is my opinion and I'll leave it at that.

 

[Dennis Sherrod]

My Thoughts

I would like to add my perspective to this discussion. First, I am not a meteorology student and have never been, nor had, any professional training in such. (other than various NWS classes) But, I have been involved and had great interest in this area since my working as law enforcement in the deadly Smithfield tornado of 1977 and subsequent 30 years dealing in various weather disasters since. I have since been fortunate enough to retire early and spend my time traveling and learning more technical knowledge on weather issues. I do not have some of the desired computer technical knowledge I wish I had.
With that said, this forum over the last few months has been very helpful to me, with a lot of great help by several members. (Thanks) Without this help, I would still be more apt to be chasing my tail for some needed info. This forum does seem to operate for the most part in a very professional manner. Yet, from my viewpoint, there does seem to be, at times, too many personal attacks and petty arguments made against or to others in the forum. While I like and need the advice, knowledge, and professional info forums, the other mentioned actions by some are totally uncalled for and very unprofessional for themselves and ST. Sure, I have the option of not being a part of this forum if it bothers me enough, but I prefer to remain so that I can learn and hopefully contribute in some manner.
So, if essays, Q&A, or some other testing will further the professionalism of this forum, than I am all for it. (Boy, I sure hope and look forward to writing an essay after being out of school for over 30 years.) Yet, this will only work as long as the Moderators have and follow set designated guidelines to deal with violations and do not themselves participate in the attacks made against others. (NO, I am not making any direct accusations of Moderators committing any attacks or failing to follow the rules)
One more thing as far as membership. I am sure it has been considered many times before. But what about at least some small yearly dues for members? This would at least pay and provide some of the revenue for the upkeep of the ST site. As much as most of us pay each year for our chasing, I would not think another $10 - $20 a year would hurt us. Possibly some of the people who only have the desire to have an outlet or venting of their unneeded thoughts would not pay the dues.
Thanks and I hope ST can find the right method of keeping it professional.

 

[D. Hayes]

I do like the ideal of a split board concept. If the forums doesn't take that route, will potential members be able to at least read all the threads on the board? If they can see the quality they will be more likely to deal with the essay.

Reasoning behind that is I've been on several boards where I was just looking for a quick answer. But then I couldn't read the thread with out being a member. So then you're forced to join up just to read 2 lines of information. So if we can avoid that I think it'll help pull the good hearted people in.

 

[Lanny Dean]

"What's going to happen is a small forum of old members who do nothing but post in the current storms forum. There's won't be any new members to ask those same old questions over and over again. There won't be new members bring fresh ideals to the table. Everyone's going to get bored and slowly leave to another forum. I do love this place but I don't understand the need to tighten the noose"

Mr. Hays has a wonderful point.
Although I have not been a member long, I have come to stormtack for many years if nothing else than to see what was going on in the "our" world. The reason for not becomming a member was because I simply do not enjoy politics. However, as of late, it seems to me that some of those politics are/were running their course and for the most part the moderators have kept a good handle on situations as they arose. Why change something that seems to work?
I am not sure that I understand this thought process. To me, this sounds very much like CFGD and some of their requirments.
Speaking of requirments and essays, what would the requirments be? What would the general essay's concern? Are we talking 500 words or less? Do you have to be a veteran chaser or have been chasing for so many years? Are you going to start doing background checks before anyone can join?
Where does it stop?
Mr. Boggs implies that joining would be somewhat like going to a job interview with a "screening" process and the like...this analogy is crazy to me.
Again, sounds much like CFDG.

 

[Mikey Gribble]

Writing an essay to show that you actually know a little bit about meteorology/weather and have a genuine interst in storm chasing is a far cry from a background check.
I had to defend the fact that friction upsets the geostrophic wind a while back in a Weather and Chasing thread. That is something you can learn in an intro to meteorology book. I am all for letting people on ST that don't know anything about meteorology/chasing yet (we all have to start some where), but for gods sake don't answer weather related questions if you don't know what you're talking about. I felt like I was defending an opinion in that thread because I had several people disagreeing with me, but I was actually defending something that was well documented scientific fact. It was a bit ridiculous IMO. If I was a beginer on here trying to learn I would be a little upset if people that don't know what they are talking about were posting incorrect answers on weather related topics. The only areas that I think need to be tightened up is Weather and Chasing and the Forecasting threads. Most people have little tolerance for frivolous and ignorant posts in those two areas. If you can find some other alternative to screen people for these two areas instead of screening membership as a whole, that would be fine with me, but one way or another those two areas need to be cleaned up IMO.

 

[Shane Adams]

To be quite frank, observing ST the past few months since the big "CFDG explosion" makes me realize the CFDG group got it right. You may not like the group itself or certain individuals who help comprise it, but I'd bet dollars to dimes they don't have the issues ST has had the past 6-8 weeks.

There's a ton of different chaser cliches out there, because chasers are people and not all people get on well with one another. I'm failing to see the reason behind the continued lamenting of the horrors of the CFDG list...it's not like we're all hobbits here on ST and CFDG is the Mountain of Doom. There are many other paths to take that are just as efficient as the dreaded "CFDG"...they are but another group within many in the chasing world (I say 'world' because it is certainly not a 'community'...that would suggest unity).

My own little cliche sits around on our own time and has the same laughs at the same expense as all other chaser cliches do, including CFDG. The "mystique" and "power" of CFDG is born solely of its loathers' continued, public lashings. Just let it be if it bothers you so...nothing about that list in any way influences how others are able to chase.

 

[matt doolittle]

I filled out an essay before I was accepted into this forum. I have no "official education" in meteorology, but have been learning out in the world. I couldn't tell you what my essay said, but I believe it showed my passion for weather and my wanting to learn more about it.

I agree there needs to be an essay. I would also have no problem paying yearly dues. I have gained alot of knowledge from this forum. Everyone that has helped maintain this forum has done great job.

Oh yeah, is there still a donation page/list?

 

[Danny Neal]

I think Gribbles right. It's not so much we are against newcomers starting out here and getting a feel for things because like he noted, we all have to start somewhere, but I think it is outrageous for some newcomers to not honor the way things were before. I don't want to point out examples and it certainly isn't my intent to identify anyone and point fingers. All I ask is if you truly are a newbie with no background and don't know a cumulus from a cirrus than turn into a sponge and soak up as much information as you can before you give your interpretation on certain higher level things. For the first year or so I didn't post much because I was always told to keep your mouth shut and your ears open and learn from the vets. Probably half of you have been chasing longer than the 11 years I have and when you have something to say I generally will respect your opinion. Lately I have seen this forum turn into a lack of respect for the vets and sort of a chat forum where you would get 9 word sentences pertaining to nothing relevant going back and forth for a span of 20 minutes. We all know what being the new guy feels like, but how many of us would actually make a first impression by boasting about our lack of knowledge? I know my place in the food chain, we all chase the same storms but am I gonna sit here and argue with Doswell about tornadogenesis? Hell no. But it seems a couple of newer members will post just for the sake of posting when they have no idea what they are talking about. Call me old fashioned, call me a ****, whatever, but when some people can't even form complete sentences and are allowed to post continuously I ask what the point is anymore.

On a side note. Those of you from across the pond who are ESL (English as a second language) and still take the time to post even with broken english well I have to stand up and give you a round of applause. Take it as an amazing compliment that your second language skills are better than some primary language skills around here

 

[Jim Saueressig]

but I think it is outrageous for some newcomers to not honor the way things were before.

If they cannot follow the rules of the board that are set they should lose their ability to post in specific areas or at all. That applies to old and new members.

Lately I have seen this forum turn into a lack of respect for the vets and sort of a chat forum where you would get 9 word sentences pertaining to nothing relevant going back and forth for a span of 20 minutes.

That would also be a place for the moderators to limit a users ability to post. I have seen a few vets that can spout a line of bull as well.

But it seems a couple of newer members will post just for the sake of posting when they have no idea what they are talking about.

Again a moderator should be a knowledgeable enough chaser and know enough that anyone who is spouting off trash can have their ability to post such trash removed.

 

[Mikey Gribble]

I took the same approach as Danny when I started. I visited ST for a long time before I joined and after I joined I kept deadly quiet for a long time. I kept quiet because I wanted to learn, but more importantly I kept quiet because I didn't want to make an ass out of myself (I'm no longer scared of making an ass of myself and in fact take pride in doing so on a regular basis lol). It seems like some people just don't have that same fear of embarrassing themselves that other people have and hence they are more than willing to post in the Weather and Chasing and Forecast threads when they probably shouldn't. At the same time I don't think ST should be highly policed. I wouldn't want newer members to be scared to post, so I don't really think there is a whole lot you can do to fix the problem. The whole essay thing is the only sensible measure you can take to help improve the quality on here a bit. At least with that you know you are getting members who are willing to put in a little work to participate. Those kinds of people are more likely to police (for lack of a better term) themselves IMO. I also kind of like the idea of restricting access to weather related areas to new members. Not because they aren't qualified to post in there, but because that will give them more time to observe how things work in those threads before they start posting (since higher quality is desired in those areas).

I don't know why I'm even getting involved in this because I really don't care that much what happens. I don't use the forecasting threads on chase days, so bandwith/frivilous posts aren't an issue for me. I do check forecasts leading up to a chase day, but it's nothing for me to skip over certain posts. I also know that I still make stupid posts so who am I to throw rocks.

If I was making the calls on here I'd say write an essay to be a member and be done with it. Everything else is fine as is. The cure for the other problems are worse than the disease. That's my two cents.
BTW I love to screw around and make stupid posts in off topic threads, but IMO I don't think there is anything wrong with low quality posts in those threads. That's what they're there for, aren't they?

 

[Danny Neal]

If they cannot follow the rules of the board that are set they should lose their ability to post in specific areas or at all. That applies to old and new members.



That would also be a place for the moderators to limit a users ability to post. I have seen a few vets that can spout a line of bull as well.



Again a moderator should be a knowledgeable enough chaser and know enough that anyone who is spouting off trash can have their ability to post such trash removed.

I agree and I probably should have included the community as a whole, from a MOD posting one lined garbage in a NOW thread to the newest member posting frivilous things in B&G. Most of the MODs here do a good job keeping up on things, sometimes I do not agree but there is no such thing as a perfect utopia. I am in no way perfect, but who is. As someone mentioned to me....why only warn the newbie, but punish the vet? Rules are rules, there are no double standards if you mess up your 2nd day here and get warned because you are new and didn't know the rules, and I do the same thing being here for almost 2 years and reading since 2004, and I get the infraction or worse, of course I am gonna be pissed. They can read the rules as well as I can. Normally I would keep quiet about issues with ST unless I am directly involved, but if this is the place to discuss them, then I will.

I agree with Jim, I certainly wasn't implying he didn't know what he was doing.....all you have to do is look at his webpage to know hes got skill.