Laptops: Unfortunately "pre-installed" Vista!

Ben Holcomb said:
I am very familiar with the differences between 32 and 64 bit. I work in the IT industry. The fact that a 32bit os can only use 4GB of RAM is a lie. The server I run my website on has 8 gigs of ram and a 32 bit kernel

Linux xen.bholcomb.com 2.6.18-53.1.6.el5xen #1 SMP Wed Jan 23 12:33:37 EST 2008 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux

It sees all 8 gigs of RAM just fine. Windows could be designed the same way, but why should they when they can just sell you a 'More Gooder More Newer More Betterer!!!!!!!!!!!111111' OS.

I have found many driver issues with 64 bit operating systems, both in the Linux/UNIX world and Windows. I'll stick with 32-bit until something or someone can convince me that my headache to performance ratio will be worth it :)
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There are certain versions of Windows that can support more than 4GB of memory, but adding more than 4GB of memory still doesn't change the fact that it is a 32-bit processor accessing a 32-bit memory space. Even if there is more than 4GB of memory each process still has the normal 2GB virtual address space, and the kernel address space is still 2GB, just as on a normal non-PAE system.

A 64-bit system will out perform a 32-bit system, that is why I choose a 64-bit system over 32-bit. I honestly have not ever had any problems using a 64-bit system, I work in IT as well and we run 64-bit systems and never have problems.
 
I bought a Toshiba laptop with Vista on it. I tried it for a week and returned it. I just didn't like it! It was slow to say the least.

So I went and bought a MacBook. I am still learning the ins and outs of it but so far I like it. It is screaming fast with my internet card. My only real problem with it is the new touchpad. The whole touchpad is also the push pad. I keep clicking on crap I don't want. So I am taking this winter to get used to it before I find myself in a bad situation this spring and I keep loading unwanted screens.:D

I am pretty much done with windows. Everytime they release a new OS it is worse than the last one.
 
Penny Lehner said:
I bought a Toshiba laptop with Vista on it. I tried it for a week and returned it. I just didn't like it! It was slow to say the least.

So I went and bought a MacBook. I am still learning the ins and outs of it but so far I like it. It is screaming fast with my internet card. My only real problem with it is the new touchpad. The whole touchpad is also the push pad. I keep clicking on crap I don't want. So I am taking this winter to get used to it before I find myself in a bad situation this spring and I keep loading unwanted screens.:D

I am pretty much done with windows. Everytime they release a new OS it is worse than the last one.
Click to expand...
I know that Windows-based laptops can use a wireless optical mouse plugged into a USB port. I use that on chases, as I cannot stand using the touchpad. The optical/wireless mouse is outstanding. But I would hope that you can use a regular cable-type optical mouse on the Mac - and have the Mac O/S recognize it without any difficulty - too!
Just a thought...
 
Windows 7 is great and very fast and runs all the current weather apps. The Public beta will start tomorrow so make your system a dual boot and try it out .
 
To think it had to go this far...
I wonder if MicroSoft will exchange my Vista discs for the new Window 7.
That would be a fair thing to do, considering that their reputation is based on a piece of plastic and a random code number. That's not asking too much from them, when one considers what money I wasted already on Vista.
If they don't voluntarily go there, then they have created a grand scam and gotten away with it.
OR - Time for a class-action suit if they don't make amends!
 
Then of course some of us as happy with Vista, think it runs great, and aren't really having any problems with it and don't feel scammed at all.

Sure there were some issues when it first came out that probably should have been ironed out before launch, but those seem to have been addressed in SP1. But by then it suffered from mob mentality about how horrible it was and all that jazz. I hear people say that all the time, then I ask when the last time they used it was, and more often than not, they have never even tried it. They are just going off something someone else said.

I've been working with computers and operating systems since the TI99/4a, and I have seen an unbelievable amount of software and operating systems come and go. I can honestly say, the vast majority of the time when I helped someone with their issue it came down to just 2 things.

1) User error/unfamiliarity of the product
2) User trying to use outdated software on a newer OS, or a newer software/OS on a system that wasn't up to the task.


You just can't go throwing software that is 3 or 4 generations old on newer machines/operating systems and expect there to not be issues. Software doesn't have an unlimited shelf life, unless you are content to keep using an outdated system or OS.

I have some great old programs lying around somewhere that will run GREAT on Windows 3.1 (in fact I still have the floppy discs of Windows 3.1 some place) but I certainly don't expect them to run on Windows XP or Vista.
 
I pretty much agree with you David. OK, the 'scam' statement was a bit over the top. I don't think they intentionally meant it to be a scam. They have a reputation of customers that depend upon them to run their businesses and home boxes on. If I were one of the honchos at MS, I would want to generate new business and re-assure past customers by making it right with them. But, if they cannot at least be willing to exchange Vista discs for a reasonable exchange; then they have taken something from their customers ('money') and left us without a remedy. Or have they?

Class action suit? Could be; those are legitimate reasons for asking them to comply. I don't why they wouldn't at least offer to do this - as it would do a lot to shore up any bad feelings and frustration they may have caused. Of course, they just can't come out and say 'Gee; it was a big mistake and we are flogging those involved in writing this O/S". But if they offered to exchange the disc at any local software supplier - I'll bet their stock value would shoot up at least a few points. They have the opportunity to gain a lot and lose a little. That's just good business, and a good business practice I think.
 
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But, is it really their fault when it's user error? I think they made good when they got SP1 out relatively quickly to fix many things that people were having problems with. I don't really see how blame can be placed on them for old systems, or mis-perceptions about the product from people who never used it.

They launched the Windows Mojave campaign, and everyone that tried it LOVED it, and were quite surprised to learn it was actually Vista.

My point is, I truly believe Vista suffered (suffers) from:

A) A bit of a buggy launch, which was mostly rectified with SP1.
B) A heck of a lot of user ignorance and the general discomfort people feel when changing major ground on something like an OS (pretty much all Windows versions have gone through that). (In this I include those trying to run it on machines that really can't handle it, and trying to run old software on it.)
C) A whole heck of a lot of bandwagon bad-mouthing from people who either never tried it or really ever gave it a chance.

Bottom line, it works differently than what people were comfortable with in XP, and it doesn't always run software that was developed prior to Vista. I'm not so sure that's a bad thing. I think if I can have it running just fine on 5 machines here, with pretty much no issues, that it just can't be that hard for others to do it. My machines are healthy, but not exactly top of the line. The last one to go was my sig other's machine (Dell) which bit the dirt after xmas. She protested loudly about Vista, about how she didn't like it, blah blah blah. She's been on it a couple weeks now and I hardly hear a peep out of her about it, when before I always hear a lot about how she was having problems in XP with something.
 
I think that the MS folks have thrown up their hands and said "We give up; we can't fix it and we need to overhaul it for the masses that aren't computer savvy enough to be able to fix it on their own". But in all honesty; that isn't the whole story.

Windows 7 is probably all that worked/looked like in Vista with Xp underneath. Can't and won't say that is for sure, but its got to be something close to it. The myriads of hardware mfr people that write the machine language (for motherboards, video cards, etc, etc, Not to forget the software mfr's - too) are going to have massive quantities of kittens if that is true. We will see; what else can we do but watch and wait? Is there any driver support for Windows 7 - now that the beta testing is starting tomorrow - as I understand it to happening then? I wouldn't mind downloading a beta copy and putting it on a spare drive that I have. Could be pretty interesting. But that depends on how they have it set up - would we need to burn as an ISO file - or has it included the option to re-partition the drive to have a dual-boot function? I'm gonna go check it out now...
 
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Rob Wadsworth said:
I think MS have thrown up their hands and said "We give up; we can't fix it and we need to overhaul it for the masses that aren't computer savvy enough to be able to fix it on their own".
Click to expand...

Again, your going with the thought that it's inherently broken. Clearly it's not, or I wouldn't have 5 machines running it without issue.

Even if MS thought it was broken (which I am sure they don't), you won't hear them saying so publicly. To do so would be to admit fault in something that could cost them billions by doing so. Not going to happen. I wouldn't expect any discounts any more than you got when upgrading Windows from any other version, or any other software for that matter.
 
I think we ALL will be happier if the folllwing is done (with MS Windows, and any other OS, but especially Windows)...

1). If it ain't broken, don't fix it (any programmer knows that, right).

2). Standardize the OS ... Keep 16 bit (and 32 bit support).

3). Have it tested in a real-world environment with real users, not a lab or campus.

Note: I agree that 99% of new PC problems are NOT Vista, or the OS per se, but the GARBAGE trial software and junk it comes with.

Many responses to this thread clearly state no problems with Vista, problems that stopped me dead in my case ... So I am thinking removing all the trial software hosed something, like a DLL or dependacy file.

I strongly suggest a "fresh" or clean install, I bet that's what Drummond did.

I built a PC from scratch and had Vista on it and no problems, just some minor issues. The laptop had other crap on it (60 day trial, then spend $600 to activate it or I'll delete "*.dll" from your C:\Windows\System32 directory).
 
cdcollura said:
I strongly suggest a "fresh" or clean install, I bet that's what Drummond did.

I built a PC from scratch and had Vista on it and no problems, just some minor issues. The laptop had other crap on it (60 day trial, then spend $600 to activate it or I'll delete "*.dll" from your C:\Windows\System32 directory).
Click to expand...

You bet I did! I have ZERO use for all the bloatware and trial offers and other misc BS that comes with every single manufactured PC on the market, as far as I know.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=120228

The best guide I have found for a clean Vista install, I've used it several times and it works.

I've ALWAYS done a clean install on every PC I didn't build myself, and of course those were by nature clean installs.

The downfall of course is if your under warranty, they might not want to help you out if you have sort of software related issue, then again they might. If you have to send it in, you can bet they probably will put it back with a recovery disc.

As far as I know the only way to get around that is to build your own system, which is just about impossible for a lot of people. Then again, if your capable of that, you generally aren't the type of user who needs tech support from a manufacturer most of the time.

Don't be surprised if you don't get Premier 6.5 to work on Vista. It's two or three generations old now. I can tell you that CS3 and 4 work fine.
 
EDIT: I'm downloading "Windows 7" via Bit Torrent, should be done by tonite some time. It's an ISO file; so I will burn a disc and run my empty backup hard drive as the boot drive thru the motherboard BIOS. I'll play with it for a couple of days, and write a review on it and start a thread. Looks like Windows 7 is Windows 2003 Server (64 bit) with a GUI that LOOKS like Vista. Or, at least that as much as I have been able to gather at this point.
 
I hate vista, and I have very good friends. Let me explain.

We all know that today's PC are coming with Vista, but I know someone working at Microsoft, and this guy did a kind of home-made service pack of XP Pro, removing all the useless stuff that comes with windows, to make a never-seen-before stable version. I'm using this amazing windows version and I can tell you there's a true difference in speed and stability. Like in a mac, there is almost no need of antivirus...

Many people I know bought a laptop coming with vista. I found a way to uninstall vista and I installed my amazing Windows version, and they love it!
 
I downloaded and burned a copy of Widows 7 x32 & x64; put the x32 on an empty drive. J Kinkaid's second link shown above was faster and didn't need Bit Torrent to download. That is a good link!

Looks pretty and hasn't caved in on itself. "Aero" type display is nice. It installs pretty easy, I'll say that much at this point, easier by far to date of any MS ware. I haven't put any software/programs on it yet - though. That will be the real acid test - "compatibility". Do I sound skeptical? Just look at it as being gun shy. Yes Sir...
 
Dan Cook said:
Bah you can't install Windows 7 on an external HD.
Click to expand...

But you can make your system dual boot and run it that way or on vmware. The only weather program that I have found that doesn't work is the new weather defender from Swift weather but Rory says he will fix that .
 
One bit of news on Windows 7. If you put any kind of program on it and remove it, it may lock up. Mine did. One would think by now that MS would have been able to make the O/S stable enough to be able to remove programs cleanly.
Message for MicroSoft: Get it RIGHT! Not everyone that owns a computer is a propeller head - you got to make it work in the real world...
 
Rob Wadsworth said:
One bit of news on Windows 7. If you put any kind of program on it and remove it, it may lock up. Mine did. One would think by now that MS would have been able to make the O/S stable enough to be able to remove programs cleanly.
Message for MicroSoft: Get it RIGHT! Not everyone that owns a computer is a propeller head - you got to make it work in the real world...
Click to expand...

This is a beta so of course their will be bugs.
 
Vista "PLUS the Garbage" is the problem...

Good day all,

Remember all the BS with the Vista / Laptop?

Well, I ate it and bought Vista Ultimate and installed it in a dual-boot / test bed on my Desktop after throwing in another HD and additional 4 GB (8 total) of RAM.

On one side is XP Pro (32 bit) with all my old stuff, and Vista 64 Ultimate on the other (500 GB disk is partitioned into 2 equal 250 GB units). The dual boot is where the OS chosen from a menu as the machine boots up.

The 2 1.5 TB drives are the additional SATA disks - data only, G: and H: - And the "my documents" directory is on one of them G: - So whether you boot XP Pro or Vista 64, you can see the same path for my files, music, pictures, etc.

Now experiementing with Vista 64, which was also on my new Sony laptop I returned to Best Buy (in a virtual rage) several months back ... I attempted to test / install those SAME programs on the Vista 64 partition on my desktop.

All of them loaded fine, into the "program files [386]" directory (non-64 bit). They ran OK, no errors, no installs bugging out and failing. I was so suprised ... and pleased.

Premiere 6.5, Corel Photo Paint, Adobe Audition, Avast AV all failed when trying to put them on the 64-bit Vista laptop back in late December. Either they would not install at all (with a fatal error) and / or would not run.

The only issue I noticed that my Lexmark 3850 driver (64 bit) was having problems in Vista, but I print / scan from the XP partition, so I did not really care much. After some finaggling, I was able to get it working in a limited fashion on the Vista platform.

In conclusion, I found that the problem was not Vista ... As I was to the point yelling and cussing Microsoft after returning the laptop and eating the 10% fees ... But the GARBAGE these compaies pre-install on these things!!

When you get a new laptop / desktop, it comes LOADED with trial-versions, limited-edition software ... Such as Microsoft Works, 60-day trials, etc.

Normally, removing these programs - Thinking you'll get a virgin OS afterwards is a mis-conception. This also removes some drivers, DLL's, and components.

Then, when you have spent hours and think you have a clean slate, you begin installing stuff, and that's when the bald spots get bigger. Nothing but frustration.

Always get a new Desktop / Laptop with a CLEAN OS ... Only the operating system (whether XP or Vista) AND the drivers solely for the computer ... No MS Works, no Google Toolbars, no Trials, nothing - Just the OS / drivers !!

Also, be careful when installing Windows ... This is besides a "copy a buddy" might have given you ... I installed windows on my desktop, then went to do it on my laptop, and got a message saying I could not re-use the license.

Ofcourse, I am getting a different approach, and buy each license for each computer I am putting it on. In the case of the second license above, Microsoft support was even able to give me a second key for it!

Microsoft is cracking down really hard on licensing and potential piracy - So everyone who is doing that, you won't get very far (like you did in Napster 1.0's days) ;-)
 
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