Impeding traffic flow - what to do

[Jason Foster]

Bottom line for me....if I saw another chaser doing it (bumping, pushing, PIT, etc.) you would instantly loose my respect and would likely loose the respect of many other chasers for whom you have to chase with out there on the roads.

Totally bad idea. I even wonder what the motive of the officer was by giving you this information Warren....seems very suspect to me.

 

[Jeff Duda]

If it came down to a "it's them or me" situation, I would do what I had to in order to escape death. I'm not going to let myself be injured or killed because someone else is being inconsiderate and blocking escape routes. If they want to sit back and take a hit, I'll let them, but they better not keep me from getting out of the way.

 

[Melissa Jablonski]

uh, what kinda vehicle do I need to watch my rear view for Jason? Actually I understand your point but My husband would freak if I did that with the HHR. Besides I'm too chicken for that. A tornado is dangerous but the pit maneuver can wreck your car if done wrong.
Melissa

 

[John Hudson]

This brings up a number of ideas, like the PIT maneuver or pushing someone out of the way, as a last resort, if parked on a road. (Never mind the massive push bars on my chase truck). Of course anyone who did this would be in very serious trouble if the means did not justify the need. But what if a wedge was bearing down on you? What would you do?

I don't honestly think that I'd hesitate at all if my life was in grave danger, I'd do what I had to do, just like everyone else.

What disturbs me the most, is that we have to engage in these types of discussions in the first place. It is just one more indication (among many) that chasing standards, like many other things, have gone to He** in a hand basket. It is becoming Darwinian.

All of this invites the usual caveats, such as the point at which one can reasonably assume his or her life to be in danger.

It would only be a matter of time until some bonehead decided that his life would be in danger if he didn't get that next great shot to add to his or her video collection.

What you are suggesting, at best, is anarchy.

My two cents (Canadian) worth.


John
VE4 JTH

 

[Connor McCrorey]

You would always go to jail for pushing another vehicle in any circumstance if you are not an emergency vehicle. Further, a vehicle going slow in a severe weather situation is actually legal given that motor vehicle regulations permit a driver can only drive what is safe given the weather/road conditions at the time. If it's raining, very windy, or a storm is real close you would never be able to justify such action.

If you can't pass, find another route or consider more ample consideration from the distance from circulations. That's just the reality of it, I'm with you Warren that I wish there wasn't so many vehicles out on southern plains chases (though I admit I chase alot in areas where ya' all aren't around). Still, the reality is, putting grandma into the ditch because she isn't all hyped up on adrenaline and wanting to conquer the sky is a bit on the crazy side. I'm all for living on the edge, let's just not take anyone to it with us.

This is a hillarious topic!!!

/Whispers to the Wind/
Scott Olson

When did someone say they would "put grandma in a ditch" just because they wanted to get to a tornado? Didn't think so. This isn't about trying to get TO severe weather, it's about a strong tornado heading toward you, and someone blocking all escape routes. Are you telling me that if you had a violent wedge bearing down on you you would let it hit you before you moved someone out of the way? I know I wouldn't.

 

[Bart_Comstock]

I give you the chase caravan of the the near future (2010)...

...and my new chase vehicle

But seriously, when I saw this thread I had to take a double look to see if it was just a joke or for real. I know traffic gets bad out there with all the chasers but are we really having to debate whether or not we should start playing bumper cars because the storm surprises us and puts us in harms way? Imho if you are getting so close to the storm that you are now having to ask your self if you should have to possibly ram your way to safety because the person ahead of you isn't doing 60mph then you shouldn't have even put yourself in that situation in the first place. I have seen many times where cars are pitted and as a result flip over as they go off the road. What happens where you ram or pit someone and they get killed when their suv flips and all because you panicked and thought you were in danger only to have over reacted due to the adrenaline rush.

Priority #1 for us as chasers should be to be the eyes of the public so they can be better warned. If you are purely in this for the adrenaline rush of getting to close and then having to back the f?@# up I think you should just stay home and off my streets as if you are trying to ram and pit your way to safety you yourself have become a bigger danger than the wedge that may be bearing down on you. Our image is already bruised and battered by the yahoos who hang out their windows to film and set up tripods in the road and sight see damage and only get in the way of emergency crews, we don't need a few renegade crazies pushing through traffic with their brush guard. Try passing in the grass if you have to, but hitting someone because they aren't fleeing as quickly as you, well I find that absurd.

Now on the subject of parked cars under overpasses, if all the divers are clear of the cars and pushing one out of the way is the only means of escape I would consider it, but only after ALL OTHER OPTIONS have been exhausted and I would never hit them at speed but so far I have yet to see a instance where i was 100% totally cut off from escape.

DISCLAIMER: Since this is the interwebs and its all super serious business... I'm not trying to bash any poster or person with this post I am merely voicing my opinion which we all should freely be able to do.

 

[Von Castor]

We may need to define "violent wedge" before this thread can go any further.

 

[PeteMcConnell]

I give you the chase caravan of the the near future (2010)...

...and my new chase vehicle

But seriously, when I saw this thread I had to take a double look to see if it was just a joke or for real. I know traffic gets bad out there with all the chasers but are we really having to debate whether or not we should start playing bumper cars because the storm surprises us and puts us in harms way? Imho if you are getting so close to the storm that you are now having to ask your self if you should have to possibly ram your way to safety because the person ahead of you isn't doing 60mph then you shouldn't have even put yourself in that situation in the first place. I have seen many times where cars are pitted and as a result flip over as they go off the road. What happens where you ram or pit someone and they get killed when their suv flips and all because you panicked and thought you were in danger only to have over reacted due to the adrenaline rush.

Priority #1 for us as chasers should be to be the eyes of the public so they can be better warned. If you are purely in this for the adrenaline rush of getting to close and then having to back the f?@# up I think you should just stay home and off my streets as if you are trying to ram and pit your way to safety you yourself have become a bigger danger than the wedge that may be bearing down on you. Our image is already bruised and battered by the yahoos who hang out their windows to film and set up tripods in the road and sight see damage and only get in the way of emergency crews, we don't need a few renegade crazies pushing through traffic with their brush guard. Try passing in the grass if you have to, but hitting someone because they aren't fleeing as quickly as you, well I find that absurd.

Now on the subject of parked cars under overpasses, if all the divers are clear of the cars and pushing one out of the way is the only means of escape I would consider it, but only after ALL OTHER OPTIONS have been exhausted and I would never hit them at speed but so far I have yet to see a instance where i was 100% totally cut off from escape.

DISCLAIMER: Since this is the interwebs and its all super serious business... I'm not trying to bash any poster or person with this post I am merely voicing my opinion which we all should freely be able to do.

Bart, I love your pictures here! It captures the essence of the potential insanity at hand. I pray that all who are able to chase this season can make it back home to their families to tell about it.

 

[Connor McCrorey]

We may need to define "violent wedge" before this thread can go any further.

I wasn't sure if i should use that term or not lol. Basically, if I see a tornado that is clearly quite strong, and large enough that I can't get away, I will do what is necessary to get out of its way.

 

[Susan Strom]

I cannot see any chase scenario that would ever warrant performing a PIT on someone. It is a police maneuver designed to stop a car chase.

Police who perform PIT have to take classes too because it is a tactical move that requires the training. PIT can kill people. Even police cannot do it in some countries. Even if Greensburg wedge was on my tail, a police intervention move would not be the solution.

And who knows why someone would be driving slow. Car trouble? Lost? Scared? PIT them (god forbid in a higher car than theirs), you might kill them. Even a non-tactical car-push could kill or injure. Let's not even go there.

Break out the lawyers. I know slow drivers and those impeding traffic are irritating and dangerous too, but if a chaser took law into their own hands, even while fleeing danger and did a PIT on someone, they would sit out a few springtimes in jail, and sell a kidney to pay for the lawsuit.

 

[Jim Saueressig]

If you block me by parking across the road I will move your vehicle from within or without if I am in need of passing you. You have no right whatsoever to block any road for your pictures, videos, tours or whatever. You need to get off to the side or off of the road completely to do that crap and if you are afraid you will get stuck then get a bigger vehicle, more wheel drive or go to the house.

If it is a matter of driving too slow then you should hit the shoulder or pull off or something.

On the same note if you are coming up on chasers pulled over doing there thing respectably out of the way then slow down and give then a little of the courtesy they gave you by getting off to the side.

 

[David Drummond]

Just one note I would like to add. If you are stuck in a group of chasers moving something under the speed limit, at least be courteous enough to leave enough space between you and the vehicle in front of you for someone to pass you safely if they wanted to.

It's infuriating to get stuck behind 10 or more cars doing 15-20 under the speed limit while they lookylou at the pretty wall cloud while driving bumper to bumper so those that would like to gain a little distance on said wall cloud can't go on about their business.

Just leave a little space so those that want to go on can get around you, and even better slower cars, move over and let those behind you go on ahead please.

 

[Jason.Webb]

I am new here but have driven commercially for a number of years, and participated in numerous EVOC classes, so i have to throw in my 2 cents on this.

I understand the frustration of having someone block you, the big thing is that it boils down to a lack of education, adreniline, and lack of courtesy generally, however i think it boils down to the offenders generally are not doing it on purpose.

the application of the PITT maneuver will lead to a pandoras box of problems, both legally and otherwise, not to mention a possible fist fight or worse on the side of the road. is this really a road that we would want to go down? violent wedge or not.

lastly suppose the pitt maneuver is applied and something goes wrong that flips your car, or otherwise disables it, now you are stuck with a multi vortex monster bearing down on you, what happens then.

just trying to throw some reason into the discussion.

 

[Mike Weiss]

Ok, after sitting here and reading this thread...I guess I need to throw my two pennies in.
First. If you (PITT) or otherwise cause another vehicle to crash. You would be held responsible for Reckless driving, If they are injured assault with a deadly weapon, and road rage, if you leave the scene..Leaving the scene of an accident..and if there are injuries, all three can be charged as felonies. The PITT is very hard to do and takes concentration and practice. It looks easy on TV and the movies, but it is not. If it is not done correctly, you can flip the other vehicle, do damage to both vehicles, and potentially hurt or kill someone. I do not care the circumstances...That is not something you want on your mind for the rest of your life. I too have been stuck in the chaser convergence, and the traffic blockades while trying to get in position. It is not pleasent, but hey that is part of it now days. All you can really do is try to be patient and use common sense. I have been at the wrong spot and became the chased instead of the chaser. Its not a fun experience, but I have learned to always leave myself an out, even with the convergence...it just takes a little extra planning when getting into position.
Take this FWIW...But take it from a former highway patrol officer, who has investigated my fair share of traffic crashes, taught EVOC and pursuit courses, and made arrests for road rage. Its not a course that you want to go down.

 

[Simon Brewer]

Looks to me that many of you are willing to wreck/crash another car, well, that sounds like a wussy way of running home to Mamma, because you're scared of the 'big bad tornado'. Maybe you should be a MAN (no offense to the females) and lie in ditch and possibly get some awesome video.