I can't believe this! Where are the military?

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by Kevin Bowman+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kevin Bowman)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Anonymous

I would expect congress/the president/FEMA to have gotten help there yesterday.........

FEMA has been there since Monday, The President flew over there yesterday and will be there tomorrow. im sure the congressional parties from each state have flown over and seen the damage first hand[/b]

I understand your point, but the fact the the president flys over to see the damage doesn't help the people who are begging for water and food at this very moment. This is just to much to fathom at this point, hard to get our heads around the devistation.

I was a Bush supporter (believe it or not), voted for him both times, but this has definately changed my views of our president. Hopefully this tragedy will change the way our government spends our tax money.

 

[Kevin Bowman]

Originally posted by Anonymous+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Anonymous)</div>

Originally posted by Kevin Bowman@
<!--QuoteBegin-Anonymous

I would expect congress/the president/FEMA to have gotten help there yesterday.........

FEMA has been there since Monday, The President flew over there yesterday and will be there tomorrow. im sure the congressional parties from each state have flown over and seen the damage first hand

I understand your point, but the fact the the president flys over to see the damage doesn't help the people who are begging for water and food at this very moment. This is just to much to fathom at this point, hard to get our heads around the devistation.

I was a Bush supporter (believe it or not), voted for him both times, but this has definately changed my views of our president. Hopefully this tragedy will change the way our government spends our tax money.[/b]

what else can he do that hasant already be done

 

[Anonymous]

Well at least now the media is showing that there are National Guard presence at the Superdome, THANK GOD!

 

[B Doss]

Originally posted by Kevin Bowman
what else can he do that hasant already be done

Care?

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

Originally posted by Kevin Bowman

what else can he do that hasant already be done

Effectively plan. Lead. That is what we elect our leaders to do, after all. Doesn't look like much planning or leadership went into this cluster****.

 

[Anonymous]

I would be a bunch of $$ that the plan that was in place before Sunday is the same plan that's been in place for years. I doubt highly they just suddenly came up with this plan Sunday morning. Disaster evacuation plans are made and filed for years before anyone has to use them. To blame any one administration (be it local or national) is to simply be naive. Do any of us honestly think that the Clinton administration or Carter or Bush I or ....... had better plans?

If this had happened during the Clinton admin, people would be saying he didn't respond well enough because he cut military funding/bases and was preoccupied with the Lewinsky scandal.

During Bush I it would be because of Desert Storm deployment.

The fact is that this happened and there isn't one person or administration or government body that can be blamed. I know it's human nature to want someone to blame. Someone to say "it would have been better if.....". Sometimes that just isn't possible.

You don't go to or not go to war based on what might happen in your country while at war. It's too easy to place blame by saying "well, if our troups weren't gone.....". Well, if a hurricane hadn't hit or if someone hadn't had the plan to build a city below sea level, or if people had listened, or if the levee had held..........you could go on and on and on. But too what end? What's the point. Number of military personnel wouldn't have changed what occured. They still would have thought NO was spared and still have had to deploy them from all over the country to get there (yes, yes....I understand the GA guard is over there, but we'd all be screaming about the CA guard if there was an earthquake and they were gone........you don't determine who goes to war based on "what if's" back at home).

 

[Kevin Bowman]

military helicopter makes a food and water drop to flood victims near the convention center in New Orleans, Thursday, Sept. 1, 2005. Officials called for a mandatory evacuation of the city, but many resident remained in the city and had to be rescued from flooded homes and hotels and remain in the city awaiting a way out. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050901/ap_on_...cane_katrina_43
A military heliocpter tried to land at the convention center several times to drop off food and water. But the rushing crowd forced the choppers to back off. Troopers then tossed the supplies to the crowd from 10 feet off the ground and flew away.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/...AKMYB42vvXjiw--

 

[Kevin Bowman]

Originally posted by B Doss+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(B Doss)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Kevin Bowman

what else can he do that hasant already be done

Care?[/b]

some people show it better than others, unless you know him personally you really have nothing to say other than your own opinon

 

[Kevin Bowman]

Originally posted by Ryan McGinnis+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ryan McGinnis)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Kevin Bowman

what else can he do that hasant already be done

Effectively plan. Lead. That is what we elect our leaders to do, after all. Doesn't look like much planning or leadership went into this cluster****.[/b]

plan what exactly? cant do anything if people wont or cant leave.

 

[Guest]

Policy issues of using military forces for relief

Retired Air Force Colonel here, so I will explain the 'rules' of using military forces in relief situation.

There are two kinds of forces to consider: the National Guard who are 'dual hatted' in that they can be paid either by the state they are formed in or by the federal government. Then there are the active Forces who are paid by the federal government.
If a state calls up its National Guard units, and the STATE pays them, they are extensions of the state's authority. In that case the National Guard has the authority to arrest people. Paid by the state, they are law enforcement officers. Most Army National Guard units train for this role
If the federal government pays them they are no longer an extension of the state, they are agents of the federal government. In this case they do not have the authority to arrest. They are then considered 'active duty'.

Active duty forces have no authority in the United States, except under very limited circumstances when martial law is declared by the federal government. The last time I know of this being done on US soil was Hawaii in WWII. In the LA riots, the National Guard was federalized (without the concommitent declaration of martial law) and immediately lost all their law enforcement authority.

Only the STATE has the authority to activate the National Guard inside their STATE and pay them. This problem is so big it will require more than the Gulf states have, and that means federalising units from other states, hence the necessity to declare martial law.

Here's the problem, roughly 25% of National Guard is already deployed overseas, more are going to be used for months to get NO up and running, and it's the beginning of the hurricane season. By hurricane 2 or 3 there may be no resources left for the states to draw on. That means federalising troops which can lead to widespread martial law.

 

[Kevin Bowman]

Re: Policy issues of using military forces for relief

Originally posted by Guest
Retired Air Force Colonel here, so I will explain the 'rules' of using military forces in relief situation.

There are two kinds of forces to consider: the National Guard who are 'dual hatted' in that they can be paid either by the state they are formed in or by the federal government. Then there are the active Forces who are paid by the federal government.
If a state calls up its National Guard units, and the STATE pays them, they are extensions of the state's authority. In that case the National Guard has the authority to arrest people. Paid by the state, they are law enforcement officers. Most Army National Guard units train for this role
If the federal government pays them they are no longer an extension of the state, they are agents of the federal government. In this case they do not have the authority to arrest. They are then considered 'active duty'.

Active duty forces have no authority in the United States, except under very limited circumstances when martial law is declared by the federal government. The last time I know of this being done on US soil was Hawaii in WWII. In the LA riots, the National Guard was federalized (without the concommitent declaration of martial law) and immediately lost all their law enforcement authority.

Only the STATE has the authority to activate the National Guard inside their STATE and pay them. This problem is so big it will require more than the Gulf states have, and that means federalising units from other states, hence the necessity to declare martial law.

Here's the problem, roughly 25% of National Guard is already deployed overseas, more are going to be used for months to get NO up and running, and it's the beginning of the hurricane season. By hurricane 2 or 3 there may be no resources left for the states to draw on. That means federalising troops which can lead to widespread martial law.

the illinois national gaurd is sending a bunch of troops

 

[Jason Montano]

The Oklahoma National gaurd is being activated for relief efforts aswell. My friend that is in the OK National gaurd is sitting in his armory right now waiting to depoly to LA.

 

[Guest]

Non Louisiana Troops

It's true number of states are sending troops, but it's unclear what law enforcement authority they have. Most of the roles listed are rescue, security and patrol, not law enforcement except in support of local police. Since there will be a mixture of state funded military and federal funded military deployed, what each individual trooper may be assigned to do will be governed by applicable regulations. For example, Sgt A from Michigan may be guarding an electric plant, and Sgt Boudreau from La. will be patrolling the streets with the same authority as a cop. This is based on whether they're federalised or state activated. These subtleties are not understood by the press or by some civilian officials. To them troops are interchangeable.

http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292...925-1074556.php

Posse Commitatus can be waived by the President, I haven't heard of this yet. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act for more details on the use of military forces inside the US.

 

[Jason Montano]

Ya it will be interesting to see what the task and purpose of the Gaurd units from other states will be. I'm not real familiar with how that works.

 

[Anonymous]

American Federal forces can't be used as a police force...This is a protection etched into a constitution to make certain no one person/President becomes a dictator through the use of military force.

That said, this is an entirely different situation, and laws should have already been written which state the President has the authority to use the Federal military in cases on natural disaster.

I think they have been so preoccupied with terrorism they forgot things like this can and do happen within American borders. They should have spent as much time looking at both threats, and we'd likely have been able to deal with this disaster in a more rapid fashion.

Pat