VERY Disturbed with Bush and the Federal Response!!!

[Miriam Lawrence]

The effort to evacuate would have been a complete disaster even if every single person tried to get on those busses you keep talking about - in fact, if that had happened you would have seen lawlessness and desperation even before the storm hit. There was never any attempt to provide transportation out of the city to the poor people who were expected to be unable to get out on their own. If you think there was such a plan in place, and that they had the capacity to evacuate everyone, I would like to see your source. I recall hearing many time that the resources were simply not available to completely evacuate the city - not even close! So let's stop assuming everybody could have gotten out, the fact is they couldn't have.

As mentioned in a previous post, planners at various points discussed the possibility of using trains and barges to evacuate those without other means. You can fit a heck of a lot of people on those. Would they have gotten EVERYONE out? Of course not. Would the sick and infirm and people in wheelchairs have posed special challenges? Yes. But they would have gotten a lot more out than they did.

Why did they ultimately decide against it? I don't know. Maybe there was a good reason. At the moment, though, it's hard to come up with a reason good enough.

As to where to put them... well, personally, if I were a public official, I'd rather have a plan for where to house a bunch of people BEFORE they spent 3 days sitting on a rooftop or in a mass shelter surrounded by feces.

It's called disaster PREPAREDNESS for a reason.

 

[Bryce Stone]

For all of you who are saying it takes time to mobilize the military: imagine that Washington, DC was suddenly overtaken by armed bands of looters for some reason and beset by starvation and trapped people. Remember the national buildings and treasures that are in DC and the "important" people living there. Let's suppose all the police in DC quit on the spot.

Now, with that in mind, tell me how long it would take the US military to respond, quash the unrest, bring order, rescue the trapped, and drop food and water.

Oh, I don't know how long it would take. But I am fairly confident that you would see a much more rapid and serious response than we have seen in New Orleans. The important question for us as Americans is not the logistics of how the military took so long to respond, but why they took so long. I'm quite convinced that the military's response time has nothing to do with the economic conditions and race of the majority of the population of NO.

 

[Will Tinder]

Part of the reason they decided against trains was the fact that the hurricane washed many railroad bridges away. Simple as that.

And if you want the above to be an accurate assessment, you have to also add that all the local military bases and facilities that ring D.C. have suffered major damage of their own. Things as simple as shingles, if they land on a runaway, have to be cleaned up or they'll cause havoc. That alone has likely delayed the response some. I don't say that was the full cause of the delays... there was miscommunication and mismanagement at all levels... but its something that has to be taken into account.

 

[Will Tinder]

Part of the reason they decided against trains was the fact that the hurricane washed many railroad bridges away. Simple as that.

I retract what I said... Fox News has interviewees saying Amtrak is being pressed into use to get people out of the city as well.

 

[Anonymous]

The US gov't should stockpile relief supplies, bottled water, MREs, etc the same as they stockpile oil supplies.

 

[Jason Montano]

I'm quite convinced that the military's response time has nothing to do with the economic conditions and race of the majority of the population of NO.

What do you think the race and economic majority of Washington DC is? It has nothing to do with race it has to do with properly dealing with a disaster of this magnitude.

And to answer your question it would depend on the threat the "armed looters" presented. If it was towards military targets i.e. the Pentagon or the President or Ft. Myers the response would be quick and descisive I would imagine, war game scenarios often played out in upper echelon think tanks. If the threat were Best Buy and JCPenny stores it would take just as long as the response is now.

 

[Tom Mitchell]

This disaster has been in the waiting for years. It is a fact that the Army Corp of Engineers was working on improving the levee system to meet the catostophic flooding event that occurred. I am not an engineer, but it seems that it could have been accomplished faster. But, funds were diverted from that project to fund a certain war. That last statement is NOT meant to start a debate on that war, so don't even go there please.

As for moblilizing the military and sending them to New Orleans right away, it did have the potential to be a very dangerous situation. I am sure politicians at the White House decided that they didn't want images of soldiers shooting poor people on TV. They did their cost benefit analysis and decided the risks from those images and deaths outweighed the potential loss of life due to the military not responding immediately. And other agencies probably told the president that they were up to the task for the time being.

That they decided not to send the military to New Orleans because it was dangerous?.........well...........enough said. I kind of thought it was the job of the military did do the dangerous things. That being said, I wouldn't want the military to be used as police, but only for providing aid and security around the evacuation centers. Seriously, as for looters, let em loot. I would never want my son or daughter to have to shoot someone because that poor, ignorant bastard was stealing a tv. I know that opinion won't sit well with those that want to kill all the looters, but it's just my opinion. Now, when looters start to interfere with rescue operations, that would be a damn tragic scene.

But, I still don't know why there wasn't a quicker response with food and water. In this day and age there are these funny things with wings called "planes", and other things with spinny tops called "helicopters." And I'll be darned if some of those helicopters don't fit inside some of the big planes. And just one of those green helicopters, like all the ones you saw lined up to give the governor a tour of the disaster area, can can quite a few bottles of water I imagine. Seems like a little creative thinking could have at least solved the need for water in New Orleans. Maybe even the food problem too.

What was missing was a leader with the balls and the first hand knowledge of the situation to use his resources to quickly and effectively. Interesting development, considering the battles that the states are having with the Pentagon over control of the Air National Guard, and other National Guard units, triggered by the base realignment commitee. Remeber that the governors I would never blame the soldier, sailor, or airman that would actually carry out the mission, so you guys please don't get offended. What we will never know about this disaster is how the upper echelons interacted in the first hours of the disaster; how the military, JCS, the white house, and FEMA all discussed the challenges; How much of it was a "turf war" between agencies.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the military probably quickly displayed a "can-do" attitude with fairly aggressive humantitarian response, but their offers were put on hold because other agencies felt they could deal with the crisis until the US Navy's resources could reach the region. I have no evidence to back up this hypothesis, just some knowledge of how Federal agencies interact and come to decisions.

I won't bash the president yet. And trust me, I want to bash away! On the surface, it looks like his decisions were slow and weak. But once again, we don't know the quality of information he was receiving, and as we all know, sometimes he doesn't get the most accurate info. Then again, it is also his job to insure that he has the best information available. But, don't forget, he was on vacation......

In the long run, however, I sure the military and National Guard will perform a large part of the cleanup efforts and support for refugees. (seems strange to say refugee when talking about Americans in America doesn't it? Maybe I should say evacuee instead...)

Have a great day!
Tom

 

[Ben Cotton]

Oh, I don't know how long it would take. But I am fairly confident that you would see a much more rapid and serious response than we have seen in New Orleans. The important question for us as Americans is not the logistics of how the military took so long to respond, but why they took so long. I'm quite convinced that the military's response time has nothing to do with the economic conditions and race of the majority of the population of NO.

Don't forget to throw in the complication that the city is under feet of water. That's an important fact when people discuss the reaction. Also, its not just the city. In a comperable DC scenario, add in Maryland, Delaware, and parts of Virginia.

 

[MClarkson]

The US gov't should stockpile relief supplies, bottled water, MREs, etc the same as they stockpile oil supplies.

so should people in the path of hurricanes. Its not like its money being wasted for these poor people. It will end up getting drunk or eaten anyway and it just might save their lives. You shouldnt rely only on other people to save you in a bad situation.

 

[Justin Turcotte]

I won't bash the president yet. And trust me, I want to bash away!
Tom

Most of your post seemingly bashed the president.

Maybe I'm one of the few who think the feds have done a reasonable, albeit imperfect, job of getting the job done. The magitude of the disaster wasn't really known for several hours after the storm past. Media reports were sketchy until the following day. On that following day I saw images of coast gaurd crews making roof-top rescues. There were a staggering number of people still in the city which led to delays getting a great number out. This was partly a result of a rather short lead time to evacuate the city and poor choices among able bodies folks to move. There was a limited number of law enforcement personnel and a huge number of criminals. Mayve naive, but I suspect public officals did not expect or plan for this. There were perhaps 100,000 thousand people scattered throughout a large flooded city that experienced wind over 110 mph. Highways were blocked by debris, city streets flooded and plugged with debris, numerous other cities also needing assistence. The mayor told people to get out of dodge, the weather service stated this was the next Camille, chopper rescues were taking effect the next morning, buses began shipping people out within about 60 hours, within 96 hours the city filled up with National Guard troops, supplies were brought in continuously. Getting the necessary equipment and manpower in there took some time. Unfortunately it takes some time to get the job done. Had able-bodies persons heeded the warning there would have been more time to resue those truely in need. Had the public prepared for the disaster by having a few days provisions on hand there would not have been such a panic. It's easy to point fingers at others without first looking in the mirror.

The police and military have practiced self-restraint very well. I have seen no media reports of law enforcement shooting anybody and potentially creating a mass riot. The situation is not perfect but what else would you expect?

 

[David Schuttler]

Maybe the federal level could have been faster but did the local level do all it could to have it set up for them. The feds don't have the info the local gov't does. Was there maps out with locations of know refugees for the feds to find or did they have to follow a finger that pointed the direction.Was there areas made ready for setting up stations around town for command post.
All levels failed in the start up and it starts with those their first , The local officials and State and the Federal should have had a plan put together in conjunction with each other to follow and just in case you should have a back up plan labeled "worst case scenario" just in case.

The Mayor should be on the phone demanding not in front of the press complaining like a child. He is the mayor for gods sake be in charge until you are relieved of duty

 

[Jeff Snyder]

Was there maps out with locations of know refugees for the feds to find or did they have to follow a finger that pointed the direction.Was there areas made ready for setting up stations around town for command post.

It takes a 2 minute flyover to note the thousands and thousands at the Superdome and Convention Center. Not knowing where the refugees are is unacceptable. Perhaps they don't know where the smaller groups of people are (<100), but the biggest atrocity has involved the 20,000 at the Superdome and the 20,000 at the Convention Center. News crews have been able to find them, certainly the leaders and relief organizations in the (arguably) most powerful nation in the world can too. This wasn't like they didn't know where the refugees were for 12-24 hours. It's taken 96 hours to get life necessities (food and water) to >40,000 people in New Orleans. The Coast Guard didn't seem to have a big problem with things...

 

[David Schuttler]

Thats right the Mayor shouldn't drum up supplies either , The feds should go shopping on their way down..

Did the feds know the plan of where to take people? Fema didn't know about the convention center till watching the news

 

[HAltschule]

Now, when looters start to interfere with rescue operations, that would be a damn tragic scene

....You're kidding right??? Half of the reason I started this topic was because some bastard thugs were firing at the rescue personnel and firing guns at the buses and helicopters trying to evacuate victims from the Superdome and hospitals. Unfortuantely many HAVE been interfering with rescue operations and it IS a damn tragic scene. Even the police don't understand why that is happening. Like I said, Shoot to Kill.

 

[rdale]

"but the biggest atrocity has involved the 20,000 at the Superdome"

Why were they sent to the Superdome without having a plan to feed them? Or keep them safe? Did the mayor really expect that a few thousand hot dog buns in the concession stands would keep everyone happily fed and hydrated for 72 hours?