How can we make Stormtrack better for 2011?

[Bob Hartig]

The only reason I mentioned Facebook was because it is not anonymous and if you are going to post something in a semi public environment that may get you in trouble it would be wise to bite your tongue. I agree that beyond that the two are not the same.

I was actually responding to a different post, Bart!

Jesse, your response to my "rules is rules" post is well-taken. I guess I came across pretty black-and-white, but in real life I'm actually a pretty reasonable chap. I know that circumstances aren't always clear-cut and moderators at times have to make judgment calls that even other moderators might not agree with.

 

[John Farley]

On the whole, I think ST is excellent as it is and does not need much revision. Yes, there will be some off-topic and/or pointless posts, but I think these are dealt with reasonably by the mods and I do not think overall that the moderators are either too "loose" or too "tight" on the rules and keeping things on topic. It seems about right to me.

I am not sure that adding a large number of new topic areas as some have suggested is a good idea. I do think adding a photography or photography/videography topic area makes sense, but that is all I would add. Too many and the site gets overly confusing and bothersome to navigate and the content too diluted. I do agree with Wes that the library section could use rejuvination and updating.

Thanks, Tim and mods, for maintaining an excellent central spot on the Web for chasers to share forecasts, reports, and weather discussion!

 

[Adam Lucio]

No one person or even a few can make the place better, its up to all of us, the community. Allow me to simplify.

- If you don't like the content, get the ball rollin' with some juicy stuff, have nothing to contribute? Don't complain then.

- Rules are rules, dont follow them and you get infracted? Don't Complain, sorry, whether you've been chasing for 20 years or 20 seconds, you are not special nor exempt.

- Untie the knot in your panties. The men around here wear them tighter than the females at times.

- CHASE A FRIGGIN STORM! If you don't, why are you here in the first place?

 

[Danny Neal]

Let's see.... where to begin.

#1 - Tim - SHOW UP! This is your monster, be here to control it! Since I have joined Stormtrack your activity here has gone from daily to weekly to monthly and now in the last several months bi-monthly. You have an excellent mind that a lot of us would love to pick at. There have been numerous cases where people are trying to find you and you were no where to be found. Understandably life gets in the way (i.e - tornado to home), but why not nominate co-admins or something to approve new members, handle legislation, and/or do software upgrades. I usually see behind the scenes from the MOD point of view and have found that a lot of their hands are tied because they don't have the capability to honor others requests in terms of banner ads, payment, applications, etc. I think I speak for everyone when I say, we want you around more. I fear most newer applicants/chasers to this site don't know who Tim Vazquez is and that is a problem.

#2 - Rules - I find the rules to be cut and dry. In the beginning of my ST career I butted heads with the TA rules but found them to be pretty easy to understand. I think the issue is people coming from different weather websites that allow others to comment on reports threads, re-post watch/warning information, and just post "Yeah, I'll be waiting in Chicago for the storm to get here" type deals. These posters come from other forums, think ST is the same way, and continue posting they way they are "used" to. I like Skip's idea of changing "warning" and "infraction" to "reminder" and "notice".

#3 - Membership - Most people know my beef with certain non chasing/non wx enthusiast religious pacifists. I still think there is no room for people on ST who would rather pick apart posts, rather than stay on the topic in hand. However, I have found that I actually get a long with 95% of the people on ST. It is sad we lost a couple prominent members to other websites or forums, but we still have a pretty decent core group here. With such a good year in tornadoes it was awesome to see names I would have never recognized out in the past bagging such beautiful tornadoes. That was only possible by having a wide and varying community. I always like to see some credibility built up before reading someone else's opinion on chasing and how it pertains to me. A lot of people this year definitely proved themselves and I think that is AWESOME. I think the most success the chasing community has as a whole, the more productive the web forum will be with content to talk about. Is it no secret that this thread went so well?

#4 - Posting - A major downfall in this site the last few years has been post quality. I will be honest back in 06 and some of 07 I was guilty of posting the one liner/wishcasts. That was because I was afraid of making an ass of myself to the "vets" because I didn't have quite the knowledge of forecasting that I do today and that they still possess. I think the key to this was to overcome to the fear and grow a pair and just lay it all out there. I didn't want to be picked apart because I would have taken it as people picking apart me and not my post. I find a lot of people need to grow in maturity and be able to take constructive criticism. Since the last two batches of MOD's came aboard (Skip's and Jesse's) I have found ST to be a more favorable place to post and quality has definitely been increased. (Thinking out loud) I like the TA strict and would even go as far as to say people need to prove they can forecast before posting in it. Make that a closed membership or pay to view place. Come chase time the outsiders/leeches/novices will come to ST to see our thoughts, why not charge them. Open up each day after the event so that people who didn't chase or are interested in seeing how we saw the event can take something away and to learn from it. (/Thinking out loud) Tenured members (myself included) need to start bringing more to the table. I would be the one griping how quality is lost and how I can't start a technical discussion thread because it would be above the head of many of the newer generation members, but then I started to and was pleasantly surprised by the response I was getting back.

#5 - B&G - It is my opinion that the B&G should be done away with during the typical chase season. FEB to OCT (seems like nowadays huh). My reasoning for this. I can think of a couple times this year when there were events going on throughout the Midwest/N. Plains where most of the attention on ST was focused on a flame war in the B&G and not on the event currently ongoing. It was like people could careless there was a beautiful tornado being streamed from 10 feet away. I think during the "main" season peoples thoughts and time should be focused on chasing, learning, and getting better. This will probably never fly, but it has been something I have been watching and thinking about. I don't buy into the whole "this forum would die without the bar and grill" protesters either. There is always something to talk about in regards to chasing, meteorology, or the weather. A lot of things may be rehashed but I know I can always use a review, as long as it isn't overkill.

#6 - MODS - Can we have MODS that actually get involved? Seems like 1 or 2 people are doing all the work most times. (Yes I do know this ) I am also not sure I agree with "Stormtrack Moderating team" or w/e it is. I have found through people I have talked to that they are more likely to take an infraction willfully from a "name" rather than from a "team." I am not sure why this is, for all I know it could be because that person wants to know who to "meet" on the side of the road. But I found a lot gets accomplished when you are "man to man" with a person. I knew of an event a couple years ago where a MOD was on a different chat application participating in a flame war that was ongoing in there with subsequent posts being posted to ST. People started getting infractions left and right like minutes after they posted from the ST MOD team. Turns out this MOD that was participating in this flame war was also hiding behind the "team" and categorically denying having anything to do with it. Seems pretty underhanded and shady. Would this MOD have "baited" the other users to post on ST if he had to use his real name when giving infractions? I dunno. It was an isolated occurrence but one that sticks out in my mind. While on that topic, why can you not send a PM to the STMODTM? I was infracted a while back about a post I made and I couldn't find anything wrong with it, I sent a casual "hey what was wrong with this, lets talk" PM only to find I was denied of doing so. I know by individuality PMing each of the MODS would get me no where since only a couple would actually tell me if they sent it. Just use your name. If you wanted to be masked, you shouldn't have signed up to be a legislator/disciplinarian. It is also my belief that you need to have at least 3 years experience on this site to be eligible to become a MOD. I can certainly tell you I am not voting for someone with 9 months experience and 25 posts.

#7 - Direction - Is this still a site about storm chasing or a site about weather? I find trying to talk about storm chasing to be derailed more often than not because A) no one has the experience, B) everyone wants to give an opinion in the negative light C) It turns into a bash on Reed or the TIV or lightbars. D) all of the above. I want someone to get something out of my posts. I don't want to be the guy writing cliff notes for people without getting any sort of interaction going on. Much like in forecasting, I don't want to type up a long chase forecast only to see 6 people in minivans with their families waiting there with there wind up point and shoot cameras. And if you do use my forecast or decide to follow me on a chase and do get something... please send out some kudos my way instead of posting all over facebook that YOU bagged this and that YOU forecasted this well ..... (ugh getting off-topic) But lets keep some integrity huh?

#8 - Community - No matter how nasty some of us can get toward each other it is amazing to see how well we bond together in the face of unfortunate events. If there is one thing ST got right it is the fact that it built up a strong community full of diverse members that know when to drop the boxing gloves and pick each other up at any given time.

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That is all I have. I would be happy to further explain any portion of my post further if desired.

 

[Jesse Risley]

#6 - MODS - Can we have MODS that actually get involved? Seems like 1 or 2 people are doing all the work most times. (Yes I do know this ) I am also not sure I agree with "Stormtrack Moderating team" or w/e it is. I have found through people I have talked to that they are more likely to take an infraction willfully from a "name" rather than from a "team." I am not sure why this is, for all I know it could be because that person wants to know who to "meet" on the side of the road. But I found a lot gets accomplished when you are "man to man" with a person. I knew of an event a couple years ago where a MOD was on a different chat application participating in a flame war that was ongoing in there with subsequent posts being posted to ST. People started getting infractions left and right like minutes after they posted from the ST MOD team. Turns out this MOD that was participating in this flame war was also hiding behind the "team" and categorically denying having anything to do with it. Seems pretty underhanded and shady. Would this MOD have "baited" the other users to post on ST if he had to use his real name when giving infractions? I dunno. It was an isolated occurrence but one that sticks out in my mind. While on that topic, why can you not send a PM to the STMODTM? I was infracted a while back about a post I made and I couldn't find anything wrong with it, I sent a casual "hey what was wrong with this, lets talk" PM only to find I was denied of doing so. I know by individuality PMing each of the MODS would get me no where since only a couple would actually tell me if they sent it. Just use your name. If you wanted to be masked, you shouldn't have signed up to be a legislator/disciplinarian. It is also my belief that you need to have at least 3 years experience on this site to be eligible to become a MOD. I can certainly tell you I am not voting for someone with 9 months experience and 25 posts.

We've had several inquiries about the Stormtrack Moderator Team account, so now might be a good time to address that. That account was created several years ago, well before the current moderator team, but it's used mainly two reasons.

First, there are some people who take infractions so personally, especially during flame wars, that they pursue childish venues that denigrate into name calling, harassment and borderline threats against moderators. Those are extreme examples, and they're not the majority of responses to infractions, but this has happened several times in the past few months. If this isn't done via PM, it is sometimes done through email (usually from some anonymous, generic address) or on Facebook. Given that roughly half of the infractions issued oftentimes results in a caustic dialogue with a user, sometimes the moderators feel that use of the ST Moderator Team account is just a better choice.

Because the chasing community is rather close-knit, and comprised of various individuals with different personalities, "drama" is inevitable. As we all know, a wide number of disputes between various individuals, groups, factions, streaming agencies, tour groups, etc. have erupted in the past few years. Because moderators are chasers, or sometimes have ties to certain individuals or groups, there are instances where action by an individual moderator might give the appearance of a bias or a conflict of interest, even if that's not necessarily the case. Though moderators will still try and recuse themselves from action under these circumstances whenever possible, in those instances where something needs to be taken care of immediately (e.g., a flame war) and you're the only one around, yet a moderator might feel that using his or her name might present the appearance of a conflict of interest, use of the ST Moderator Team account is easier than having to try and defend oneself against suspicions of bias or favoritism when you're just trying to honestly perform the duties of the job.

Perhaps a compromise, besides more infrequent use of this account, would be to include a quick link (like click HERE) where a user can PM one of the mods if they have a question about an infraction.

 

[Danny Neal]

Perhaps a compromise, besides more infrequent use of this account, would be to include a quick link (like click HERE) where a user can PM one of the mods if they have a question about an infraction.

The thing I am getting at is with the link you provided, lets say I made a post in the FCST thread that was 2 sentences long but concise and to the point. Well lets say I get infracted by the ST MOD team and I PM you about it and you find nothing wrong with the post. What I am trying to get at is why not just come clean with who you are so we can talk WHY it was unacceptable to you. I had an occurrence back in 2008 with this very thing. One MOD I talked to said they wouldn't have done anything to my post, but another obviously found me liable of breaking a rule. How would one go about getting clarification? I just ask that if I get infracted in the future (we know it will happen as long as a certain someone lurks around here) please use your real name. I am not going to go on a war rampage and slander you and call for your head on the side of the road. But I would respect that person more for doing their job if they were man to man with me and not hiding behind a generic name. I like to talk about things and try to improve the way things are by throwing back and forth ideas... I can't do that if all the MODS play dumb when it comes to who handed out what. If you can see where I am coming from.

 

[Patrick Marsh]

#6 - MODS - Can we have MODS that actually get involved? Seems like 1 or 2 people are doing all the work most times. (Yes I do know this )

I'm not sure I follow here. It may seem from the public side of ST that all the work is done by 1 or 2 people, but I can assure you that everyone is involved in the behind the scenes discussion. Keep in mind there are only 4 of us, so 2 out of 4 doing a lot of the heavy-lifting public stuff is still half the team.

However, if you would like to see more public actions by all of the moderators, that is something we can work on...

I am also not sure I agree with "Stormtrack Moderating team" or w/e it is. I have found through people I have talked to that they are more likely to take an infraction willfully from a "name" rather than from a "team." I am not sure why this is, for all I know it could be because that person wants to know who to "meet" on the side of the road. But I found a lot gets accomplished when you are "man to man" with a person. I knew of an event a couple years ago where a MOD was on a different chat application participating in a flame war that was ongoing in there with subsequent posts being posted to ST. People started getting infractions left and right like minutes after they posted from the ST MOD team. Turns out this MOD that was participating in this flame war was also hiding behind the "team" and categorically denying having anything to do with it. Seems pretty underhanded and shady. Would this MOD have "baited" the other users to post on ST if he had to use his real name when giving infractions? I dunno. It was an isolated occurrence but one that sticks out in my mind. While on that topic, why can you not send a PM to the STMODTM? I was infracted a while back about a post I made and I couldn't find anything wrong with it, I sent a casual "hey what was wrong with this, lets talk" PM only to find I was denied of doing so. I know by individuality PMing each of the MODS would get me no where since only a couple would actually tell me if they sent it. Just use your name. If you wanted to be masked, you shouldn't have signed up to be a legislator/disciplinarian. It is also my belief that you need to have at least 3 years experience on this site to be eligible to become a MOD. I can certainly tell you I am not voting for someone with 9 months experience and 25 posts.

I just wanted to add my thoughts to Jesse's response.

When I became a moderator I was determined never to use the generic moderator account for precisely the reasons you mentioned. I thought it was silly to hide behind the anonymity of a generic account; if I was going to do any moderator work I should stand up and take ownership of my actions. Then the profanity laced (death) threats starting showing up in my NOAA email account. That made me rethink a few things...

I've only used the generic account once, and I think long and hard about it before using it, but it is a nice way to protect oneself from future threats.

 

[Patrick Marsh]

The thing I am getting at is with the link you provided, lets say I made a post in the FCST thread that was 2 sentences long but concise and to the point. Well lets say I get infracted by the ST MOD team and I PM you about it and you find nothing wrong with the post. What I am trying to get at is why not just come clean with who you are so we can talk WHY it was unacceptable to you. I had an occurrence back in 2008 with this very thing. One MOD I talked to said they wouldn't have done anything to my post, but another obviously found me liable of breaking a rule. How would one go about getting clarification? I just ask that if I get infracted in the future (we know it will happen as long as a certain someone lurks around here) please use your real name. I am not going to go on a war rampage and slander you and call for your head on the side of the road. But I would respect that person more for doing their job if they were man to man with me and not hiding behind a generic name. I like to talk about things and try to improve the way things are by throwing back and forth ideas... I can't do that if all the MODS play dumb when it comes to who handed out what. If you can see where I am coming from.

Very valid point. I'd suggest in this situation to email an moderator and ask them to find out for you. If you include in your PM that you aren't mad but want to seek clarification to discuss what happened, chances are the moderator who issued the warning/infraction will contact you and you can go from there.

Now, I certainly can't speak for the other moderators, but if I knew someone wanted clarification and wasn't going to just berate me, then I'd be happy to discuss things privately.

 

[Danny Neal]

I'm not sure I follow here. It may seem from the public side of ST that all the work is done by 1 or 2 people, but I can assure you that everyone is involved in the behind the scenes discussion. Keep in mind there are only 4 of us, so 2 out of 4 doing a lot of the heavy-lifting public stuff is still half the team.

However, if you would like to see more public actions by all of the moderators, that is something we can work on...




I just wanted to add my thoughts to Jesse's response.

When I became a moderator I was determined never to use the generic moderator account for precisely the reasons you mentioned. I thought it was silly to hide behind the anonymity of a generic account; if I was going to do any moderator work I should stand up and take ownership of my actions. Then the profanity laced (death) threats starting showing up in my NOAA email account. That made me rethink a few things...

I've only used the generic account once, and I think long and hard about it before using it, but it is a nice way to protect oneself from future threats.

Lol I know what goes on I am good friends with current and past MODs and have had numerous conversations about current and past MODs and their roles or lackthereof behind the scenes. So that ends right there....

I don't know about the threats.... I agree if you are getting threatened or spammed with unwanted emails then it *may* be wise to use the generic account. However, if people are threatening you or sharpening an axe for your head, why are they still allowed to be members here? Whether private or not. As I said in one of my other posts.... people need to grow up. If they can't take a slap on the wrist like a man or woman then they don't need to post or have the capability too.

 

[Danny Neal]

Very valid point. I'd suggest in this situation to email an moderator and ask them to find out for you. If you include in your PM that you aren't mad but want to seek clarification to discuss what happened, chances are the moderator who issued the warning/infraction will contact you and you can go from there.

Now, I certainly can't speak for the other moderators, but if I knew someone wanted clarification and wasn't going to just berate me, then I'd be happy to discuss things privately.

It may be wise to compile a list of offenders in the moderator forum of people who have berated/threatened MODs in the past and use this account with them. I just think it would be beneficial for everyone to remain "real". Although Risley always gives his writing style away... mainly because I hunt for my thesaurus every time he posts somewhere

 

[Mike Deep]

Regarding vBulletin 4, I'd recommend taking a good look at XenForo before making a decision there. XenForo is where the core team from vBulletin went after it was acquired by Internet Brands. Since IB took over there have been a number of issues with the way things are run, not the least of which was cutting off vB 3.x support to lifetime license holders unless they bought into vB 4. In the past, vB continued to provide security updates to lifetime licenses holders after the release of a new version. I think vB 4 has yet to look as solid as vB 3 did at this stage in its life.

#5 - B&G - It is my opinion that the B&G should be done away with during the typical chase season. FEB to OCT (seems like nowadays huh). My reasoning for this. I can think of a couple times this year when there were events going on throughout the Midwest/N. Plains where most of the attention on ST was focused on a flame war in the B&G and not on the event currently ongoing. It was like people could careless there was a beautiful tornado being streamed from 10 feet away. I think during the "main" season peoples thoughts and time should be focused on chasing, learning, and getting better. This will probably never fly, but it has been something I have been watching and thinking about. I don't buy into the whole "this forum would die without the bar and grill" protesters either. There is always something to talk about in regards to chasing, meteorology, or the weather. A lot of things may be rehashed but I know I can always use a review, as long as it isn't overkill.

Rather than close the B&G seasonally, why not add a seasonal moderator to squash this behavior?

 

[Danny Neal]

Rather than close the B&G seasonally, why not add a seasonal moderator to squash this behavior?

I have brought up the idea to nominate one or two moderators per section of the forum. Where that would be their ONLY responsibility. I don't think that picked up much steam lol

 

[Skip Talbot]

I am also not sure I agree with "Stormtrack Moderating team"

I used that account maybe three or four times if that when I was a moderator. I found if I was very cordial, and open with the people that I would more often get a positive response even if I was giving out an infraction. I did get some sour responses but I think it was mostly a knee jerk response to seeing INFRACTION in the PM box.

There are times when its definitely needed. There are occasions when you have to bust up a fight and you get thrown into the fight (against both sides) by breaking it up. The other big one is for conflicts of interest, although usually one of the other moderators can handle that (unless it conflicts with all of them).

I think the account can be used sparingly, however. I also think all target area infractions (unless its something major/or there's a direct conflict of interest with that person) should be done using the moderator's own account. For when the team account is needed, I like Jesse's idea of the PM link. Maybe a message at the bottom saying they can PM any of the moderators if they have questions, and a list of the moderators. Infractions going out under that account should definitely be preapproved by all the mods, but whoever hits the button should identify themselves to the other mods that they issued it as well.

These are also really nitty gritty suggestions as 98% of the users on here will never see that account or even know it exists.

 

[Stormtrack Moderator Team]

For starters, users should note that a new signature line has been added to the bottom of this special account. This will give the member a starting point for who to contact in the event that an infraction was issued from this account.

Jesse

 

[Bart_Comstock]

It is very important to remember that if you do ever have a question or comment about an infraction that you must PM one of the moderator's personal accounts and NOT the ST mod account. Just as the signature says if you reply directly to the infraction message it will go unread as the mod account DOES NOT accept private messages.